Francouer...when you just gotta have an out. Can he break the record?

[Hobbes]

ATL won't reload until they lose the division. You're right when you say they only have 3/5th's of a solid rotation. Of course, the same thing can be said of NY and PHI. More importantly, Glavine has been pitching lights out so far and is almost guaranteed to regress a bit. Pedro has a silly low H%, and will regress as well. Smoltz and Hudson could easily end the year with numbers equal to Glavine and Pedro.

You're right that LaRoche will likely be a major downer, but Floyd is all about getting hurt and Xavier has probably blown his wad. If Giles returns to form he can make up for part of the Delgado/Laroche differential, and the offenses are basically the same.

ATL's problem is their bullpen. Hypothetically it should improve as they introduce some of their injured players, but the primary hole is the closer. Reitsma is garbage, if ATL can fill that whole with even a Todd Jones level closer than they will be O.K., because Tom Gordon will likely regress and who knows if Wagner will overcome his finger issue. If not, this will probably be the year the run ends. But they don't have a perception problem, they certainly have a decent shot this year.

 

[toobster808]

Didnt he hit a game winning GRAND SLAM last weekend and make me some money? Against Cordero? I think it was him.... Blame it on the Major League Professional Pitchers that give up 10 runs..not a a guy who has a bad day...he plays every day the pitchers dont..no excuse for allowing 10 runs especially after that first inning.

 

[fhmesq44]

Odds he breaks the record:

Yes +220
No -300

Hines,

What happened to Henry? You had the best Avatar in the entire rx.

 

[Budworth22]

Interesting development.

First, Diaz has done well over a larger sample size. Just that the sample size has come in bits and pieces. Easy to rebound with a start here and a pinch hit there.

But...57 at bats and 0 walks...are the Braves teaching something we don't know about? Anti-Billy?

Doc, we will discuss this further in a few hours.

Some players are sucessful while drawing a miniscule amount of walks, as long as they keep their k's down also (Like J. Kendall).

I mainly used the Diaz example for 2 reasons: 1, Diaz is likely to be an average major leaguer, and it wouldn't hurt the organization of he never really reached his full potential. It would hurt the Organization if an amazing physical talent like Jeff didn't reach his.

They don't have much of a choice but to keep Langerhans there. Jordan is no better. I wanted to illustrate that while the Braves bullpen is struggling, to me it is not nearly as much of a dissapointment as their stupid low production from The corner OF SPOTS and 1B. This offense is very good overall, but they could really use 3 guys who don't hurt them instead of 3 major hackers inning killer outmakers.

 

[CHOPTALK]

You make it sound like a player cant develop in the majors. Players can develop in the majors just as well if not better than you can in the minors as long as the big club is willing to give the player the ab's which Atlanta is more than willing to do.

 

[CHOPTALK]

ATL won't reload until they lose the division. You're right when you say they only have 3/5th's of a solid rotation. Of course, the same thing can be said of NY and PHI. More importantly, Glavine has been pitching lights out so far and is almost guaranteed to regress a bit. Pedro has a silly low H%, and will regress as well. Smoltz and Hudson could easily end the year with numbers equal to Glavine and Pedro.

You're right that LaRoche will likely be a major downer, but Floyd is all about getting hurt and Xavier has probably blown his wad. If Giles returns to form he can make up for part of the Delgado/Laroche differential, and the offenses are basically the same.

ATL's problem is their bullpen. Hypothetically it should improve as they introduce some of their injured players, but the primary hole is the closer. Reitsma is garbage, if ATL can fill that whole with even a Todd Jones level closer than they will be O.K., because Tom Gordon will likely regress and who knows if Wagner will overcome his finger issue. If not, this will probably be the year the run ends. But they don't have a perception problem, they certainly have a decent shot this year.

Great post

 

[jeckll]

Point is the Braves need Francoeur in the lineup today. Yes he may be better served by a year or two more in the minors but the test of whether he will be the great player lots of people around the Braves organization are hoping for is whether he can adapt to learning in the majors instead of in the minors.

Let's not forget that there are plenty of "sluggers" who have some free-swinging problems a lot like Francoeur...can you say Soriano?

 

[Budworth22]

Point is the Braves need Francoeur in the lineup today. Yes he may be better served by a year or two more in the minors but the test of whether he will be the great player lots of people around the Braves organization are hoping for is whether he can adapt to learning in the majors instead of in the minors.

Let's not forget that there are plenty of "sluggers" who have some free-swinging problems a lot like Francoeur...can you say Soriano?

I like this post. The difference between Ck's argument and mine is that he believes that the braves can make the playoffs, and thus they must gamble that Francouer can turn it around. We both agree that development wise, Francouer should probbaly be in the minors.

As for Soriano, I think we would probably agree that is is a slugger, but far from a superstar. His production is merely above average with flash, especially for an outfielder. The difference with Soriano though, is that he was 27 when he made it to the biggs, and he had had 9 years of minor league and japanese seasoning. You knew what his maximum potential was. Francouer is not being given that chance to develop.

As far as developing at the major league level....you would be hard pressed to show me any evidence that guys are able to signifigantly improve their plate discipline at the major league level. Pitchers now have the book on Francouer, and he will not improve much.

 

[jeckll]

Disagree. Eventually every player has to go through a learning phase in the majors no matter how much they worked on their plate discipline in the minors. You can get to the point that no minor league pitcher can touch you as a hitter and once you get to the majors they WILL find a hole. Unless your name is Williams or Pujols or McCovey you're going to have to adjust your swing several times once you break into the majors no matter how much practice you've had in the minors. Francoeur is just being asked to the first part without much of the second part, which, granted is extremely difficult and will probably delay if not stunt his growth as a player, but unfortunately his franchise needs him in the bigs TODAY.

You may be right that this is the season the Braves should focus on building for the future as their division has improved immensely and they are missing several key things that would be required for them to keep rolling winning the East year after year but that would be like asking the Yankees to just give up for this season and concentrate on the next few. Not gonna happen in a place like Atlanta. If you're the Marlins or the Royals or the Devil Rays you can get away with saying "yeah we're not gonna win this season, but we're working hard for the next few years" but the Braves could NEVER do that.

 

[Budworth22]

Francoeur is just being asked to the first part without much of the second part, which, granted is extremely difficult and will probably delay if not stunt his growth as a player, but unfortunately his franchise needs him in the bigs TODAY.

If the Braves win the division, I'll apologize to everyone. Glad we agree on the bolded part at least.

 

[Budworth22]

ANOTHER UNPRODUCTIVE AB FOR JEFF!

0-6 IN HIS LAST 6!

jeff Francoeur:Strike looking, Francoeur grounded out to second.

WAY TO HACK AWAY. OOOOVERATED.
​

 

[Budworth22]

Jeff Francoeur:Bunt foul, Francoeur grounded out to second, Pratt to second.

0-7 IN HIS LAST 7, 9 LOB!!

Take a pitch there moron.
​

 

[HinesWard86]

Hines,

What happened to Henry? You had the best Avatar in the entire rx.

Club season is over, so I needed a change. Also am a big Steven Jackson fan, think he is a modern day Earl Campbell.

 

[TKE683]

Steven Jackson the modern day Earl Campbell? uppy:

 

[CHOPTALK]

Did Francoeur screw your sister or something?

 

[CHOPTALK]

I like this post. The difference between Ck's argument and mine is that he believes that the braves can make the playoffs, and thus they must gamble that Francouer can turn it around. We both agree that development wise, Francouer should probbaly be in the minors.

As for Soriano, I think we would probably agree that is is a slugger, but far from a superstar. His production is merely above average with flash, especially for an outfielder. The difference with Soriano though, is that he was 27 when he made it to the biggs, and he had had 9 years of minor league and japanese seasoning. You knew what his maximum potential was. Francouer is not being given that chance to develop.

As far as developing at the major league level....you would be hard pressed to show me any evidence that guys are able to signifigantly improve their plate discipline at the major league level. Pitchers now have the book on Francouer, and he will not improve much.

I can give you a great example of devoloping at the major league level. ANDREW JONES. The guy use to swing at everything low and away. Now he is an MVP type player. Every player devolops in the big leauges. If they did not, every players seasons would be like there rookie years. Dont understand your point.

 

[Budworth22]

Hmm Chop,

seems to me that Andruw had about average plate discipline, while Jeff has no clue. Let's look at fact there buddy. Francouer is geting worse unfortunately. Last Year Jeff had a 886 ops, this year pitchers have realized simply to not throw him strikes, and his ops is 735...that's a 150 point drop. Instead of developing, he is devolving. Adruw Improved from his first 200 to his first 400.

FRANCOUER, FIRST 437 AB'S....
<table border="0" cellpadding="2" cellspacing="1" width="100%"><tbody><tr class="bg1" align="center"><td>Year</td><td>Team</td><td>G</td><td>AB</td><td>R</td><td>H</td><td>HR</td><td>RBI</td><td>BB</td><td>SO</td><td>SB</td><td>CS</td><td>OBP</td><td>SLG</td><td>AVG</td></tr><tr class="bg2" align="right" height="17" valign="middle"><td class="bg4" align="left">TOTAL</td><td class="bg4" align="left"> </td><td class="bg4" align="left">112</td><td class="bg4" align="left">437</td><td class="bg4" align="left">64</td><td class="bg4" align="left">124</td><td class="bg4" align="left">24</td><td class="bg4" align="left">81</td><td class="bg4" align="left">12</td><td class="bg4" align="left">89</td><td class="bg4" align="left">3</td><td class="bg4" align="left">6</td><td class="bg4" align="left"> .310</td><td class="bg4" align="left"> .519</td><td class="bg4" align="left"> .284</td></tr></tbody></table>
<table border="0" cellpadding="2" cellspacing="1" width="100%"><tbody><tr class="bg2" align="right" height="17" valign="middle"><td align="left">ANDRUW'S...

1997


</td><td align="left">ATL</td><td align="left">153</td><td align="left">399</td><td align="left">60</td><td align="left">92</td><td align="left">18</td><td align="left">70</td><td align="left">56</td><td align="left">107</td><td align="left">20</td><td align="left">11</td><td align="left"> .329</td><td align="left"> .416</td><td align="left"> .231</td></tr></tbody></table>
​

 

[Budworth22]

Francouer now 0-8, 10 LOB in his last 8 AB'S!

What's worse is tonight he wen't 0-3, and ONLY SAW 5 PITCHES!
​

ALSO DIDN'T GET THE BALL OUT OF THE INFIELD!

136 outs so far...He may get to 551!

 

[jeckll]

Don't forget that last season for Francoeur was about 1/3 or 1/4 of the season. Hardly a full season to use for stats!

 

[Budworth22]

Don't forget that last season for Francoeur was about 1/3 or 1/4 of the season. Hardly a full season to use for stats!

Exactly. When I initially made the post 3 above this, I had to make sure to select only a comprable number of first AB's. 399 and 437 is pretty close, and it's Francouer with the larger set.