for the auburn cry babies

[sammythesage]

since this forum has turned into espn message board #2;
"Auburn fans, I know you don't want to hear this, but these six words explain why the Tigers are unlikely to play in the Orange Bowl come January: Louisiana-Monroe, The Citadel, Louisiana Tech.

Those three schools represent 1) Auburn's non-conference schedule this season and 2) nothing out of the ordinary. Look, it's not the players' fault. But the athletic administration at Auburn consistently schedules a trio of weak, non-BCS conference schools who agree to play at Jordan-Hare each year in order to pad both the Tigers' record and the athletic department's budget.

I crunched numbers. Actual chomping of data. Beginning with the 1993 squad that finished 11-0 while on probation (Terry Bowden's first season as Tigers coach), here is Auburn's out-of-conference combat record:

• 38 games overall

• 34 games played at Jordan-Hare, only four on the road

• Only two of those 38 opponents were ranked (Southern Cal both times) and the Tigers were 0-2 versus the Trojans in this period.

• Only seven of those 38 opponents are BCS schools (USC twice, Virginia twice, Syracuse twice, Georgia Tech) and in those games Auburn's record was 2-5.

Earlier this month Auburn coach Tommy Tuberville made a comment to the effect that he'd find it hard to believe a school from the SEC could finish undefeated and not be invited to play in the national championship game. Believe it, coach.

No school can control the quality of its in-conference opponents. You hope that they are tough enough to challenge you, but not so strong as to beat you. Oklahoma and Southern Cal were both fortunate in that they beat two schools, Texas and Cal, respectively, who have gone 10-1 and are in everyone's top eight.

Auburn, although it does play in the SEC, has beaten its in-conference competition, but no opponent this season has been as good as Cal or Texas. SEC folk -- I lived in Alabama and covered the conference exclusively for a year, and have returned many times since -- are usually correct when they argue that theirs is the best conference in the nation. However, the stifling parochialism displayed by Auburn (just one trip west of the Mississippi in the past 20 seasons) and its SEC kin has at last come back to bite the Tigers.

Not to mention -- although I'm about to -- that Auburn played seven home games (and four road) this season, which is about its average. Southern Cal, meanwhile will have played six and six; Oklahoma six home, five away (not including the Big 12 Championship game).

Auburn can control its non-conference slate, and year-in and year-out chooses to tackle patsies. A partial list of its non-SEC opponents from the past 11 seasons: Samford, Northeast Louisiana (three times), East Tennessee State, UT-Chattanooga, Appalachian State and Louisiana-Monroe (twice). Auburn, listen: Homecoming should only happen once a year.

Don't blame the players. And don't blame the system. But, if you agree that Auburn, Oklahoma and Southern Cal are the only three schools deserving of a bid for the Orange Bowl, well, then you have to play musical chairs with that trio. And you can't blame any one school for the quality of its in-conference foes. But while Southern Cal was scheduling Notre Dame, Virginia Tech, BYU and Colorado State (two of those games on the road) and Oklahoma was taking on Bowling Green, Houston and Oregon in Norman (at least one of those was a BCS program), Auburn stayed home, played three lambs and counted the gate receipts. And that, most likely, will make it the first undefeated SEC school not to play for a national title since ... the '93 Auburn Tigers."

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it also should be noted that aub's sched. is 15 games BELOW .500 while okie's is above.

this all being said; one of these two teams will lose this week, unfortunately.

 

[Midwesterner]

A lot of good points. I don't think OU will lose this game two years in a row, and I hope Auburn doesn't get beat. I want the BCS bowl games to go down the shitter. I'd love to see an 8 team playoff with USC, OU, Auburn, Cal, Texas, Utah, Louisville, and I guess Boise.

 

[BigTwelveFan]

Great Day In The Morning!!

Someone has finally seen the light. All this hype and crap this year about how incredible the SEC is.... what a joke. They are VERY average this year. I would even argue much worse than the Big XII.

Tenn. shoulda lost to Vandy and Kentucky and did lose to ND at home. That is just as bad as Colorado out of the Big XII north. USC STILL plays in a very average PAC10. Admittedly they, along with Cal are very good teams, the rest of the conference blows nuts... Yes, even all the hypesters that love Ariz St. (they suck as well).

Well, you got 1 game left for each of the top 3. I really don't think any of them are going to lose next weekend. I do feel bad for Texas being left out as they are clearly a BCS team, worthy of an invite.

We'll see what happens. These things have a way of playing themselves out.

BTF.

:finger:

 

[WCBias]

Sammy...the dark side has got you! Can you run the same numbers on LSU? Love to see their OOC schedule the past 10 years and how many times they have killed the two little girls from louisiana.

Big 12...I was one of the ASU supporters and what they did last week made me sick, not only because I had money on them, but because they made the entire Pac 10 look like ****. Hard to defend the conference when the number 3 team goes out like that against not only one of the worst teams in the country, but a team that had nothing in the world to play for.

Go Iowa.

 

[TheD.I.G.]

Good points, here's my comeback to that.

Oklahoma has beaten how many top 25 teams? 3 (#6 Texas Home, #22 A&M Away, #24 Texas Tech Home) Auburn has beaten how many top 25 teams? 3 (#8 UGA Home, #13 LSU Home, #15 Tenn Away) USC has beaten how many top 25 teams? 3 (Virginia Tech #10 Away, #4 Cal Home, #21 AZ state Home) Pretty damn equal, gotta give USC the edge. If AU beats Tennessee twice, that makes it 4, more than any other team.

(BTW, Tennessee has been starting it's 3rd team quarterback the since the Notre Dame game and probably will start him against AU, so that does take away from an auburn win somewhat. But do you think colorado could beat UGA at UGA at any point in the season, I don't think so)

Big Twelve is much better? Both conferences have 7 teams with winning records. Pac-10 has 5 teams w/ winning records. SEC has 5 ranked teams, Big 12 has 4, Pac-10 has 3. How is that so much better? I feel the Big 12 South is a best division of the three however.

As far as Non-conf sched goes, AU has the weakest by far. AU was scheduled to play Bowling Green, but BG opted out of the deal, but AU could have picked up someone better than the citadel. Traditionally, AU does play a weak non-conf sched, but last year they played Georgia Tech and USC, the year before USC and Syracuse, and next year they play Georgia Tech and Southern Miss. So you should lay off a bit.

I have one question for all of you. If AU had started the season ahead of Oklahoma or USC, or both, would AU still be ranked #3. The answer is NO. Disagree, agree, let me hear what you think.

I think it's all BS. We should be talking about who is going to win the NC instead of who should play for it. If anyone runs the table in a BCS conference, even the Big East, they deserve a shot at playing for a national title. Utah deserves a chance, Boise does not.

 

[TartanDuck]

Both Osu and Texas are one dimensional teams. If you put those teams against LSU, UGA, and UT they would not be able to move the ball. The SEC is not as strong as it was last year but then again Florida is the best 7-4 team in the nation. The Big 12 is joke this year... Texas A&M is a fraud and so is OSU.... Just like last year the SEC was 3-0 against the Big 12 in bowls. Likely the same story again. One more point, Texas(2nd best team in Big 12) played at Arkansas(7th best team in SEC) and only won by 4 or 5.

 

[GoSooners]

Someone has finally seen the light. All this hype and crap this year about how incredible the SEC is.... what a joke. They are VERY average this year. I would even argue much worse than the Big XII.

Tenn. shoulda lost to Vandy and Kentucky and did lose to ND at home. That is just as bad as Colorado out of the Big XII north. USC STILL plays in a very average PAC10. Admittedly they, along with Cal are very good teams, the rest of the conference blows nuts... Yes, even all the hypesters that love Ariz St. (they suck as well).

Well, you got 1 game left for each of the top 3. I really don't think any of them are going to lose next weekend. I do feel bad for Texas being left out as they are clearly a BCS team, worthy of an invite.

We'll see what happens. These things have a way of playing themselves out.

BTF.

:finger:

It's finally good to see a thread that sees the big picture in this BCS Championship series. I agree with you that the SEC is down this year. Beyond Auburn, that conference hasn't impressed me this year.
I haven't been at this board very long, but I've noticed that it has a very big West Coast bias. They think California and USC are rulers of the free World. Trouble is, beyond those 2 teams the Pac 10 isn't a very good conference. Who was the third best team in that conference? Arizona State? who got killed by USC and Calif, and just got beat this past week by that powerhouse Arizona team. Wow that's impressive. Is it Oregon State, who is 6-5 and got blew out by Boise St? Good question. USC and Calif. have both racked up good stats against pansies all year.
A good example is an awful Notre Dame team last week making USC's passing game look good. What's Notre Dame's pass defense rated? Something like 100 in the country.
You can hear me now and believe me later, when Matt Leiner and USC go line up against OU they will face more speed on defense than they've ever seen before. If they think they saw some good athelets when they faced California earlier this year, just wait until they face OU. You won't see Leiner having all that time back there to throw the ball like he has against those Pac 10 patsies who can't play any defense. Stoops will put put some blitz packages on Leiner and USC that's going to make em dizzy.
I can't wait to see it happen. OU is going to shock the World again just like they did in 2000 as 12 point dogs to Florida St. The Seminoles never knew what hit em. They were up against a brick wall of a defense all night. OU is going to go back to their second home the Orange Bowl and do it all over again this year. Bank on it.

 

[DanTanna]

Someone has finally seen the light. All this hype and crap this year about how incredible the SEC is.... what a joke. They are VERY average this year. I would even argue much worse than the Big XII.

Tenn. shoulda lost to Vandy and Kentucky and did lose to ND at home. That is just as bad as Colorado out of the Big XII north. USC STILL plays in a very average PAC10. Admittedly they, along with Cal are very good teams, the rest of the conference blows nuts... Yes, even all the hypesters that love Ariz St. (they suck as well).

Well, you got 1 game left for each of the top 3. I really don't think any of them are going to lose next weekend. I do feel bad for Texas being left out as they are clearly a BCS team, worthy of an invite.

We'll see what happens. These things have a way of playing themselves out.

BTF.

:finger:

Big 12 better than the SEC? What a freakin joke.
Your big bad Texas team was all but beat by an "average at best" SEC team in Arkansas. They should have won if not for a phantom fumble on the 6 yard line. Big 12 is ****!

 

[LSUpete]

Sammy...the dark side has got you! Can you run the same numbers on LSU? Love to see their OOC schedule the past 10 years and how many times they have killed the two little girls from louisiana.

Go Iowa.

Damn man, what is the matter with you? Why all the hate for LSU?

Since you asked, here's LSU's past OOC schedule......

2003....Arizona, La Monroe and La. Tech (subbed because Marshall backed out)
2002....Virginia Tech, ULL and Miami Ohio
2001....Tulane, Midd. Tenn. State and Illinois
2000....Houston, UAB and W. Carolina
1999....San Jose State and Houston
1998....Idaho, North Texas and Notre Dame
1997....UTEP, Akron and Notre Dame
1996....Houston, New Mexico and Clemson
1995....Texas A&M, Rice and Michigan State


In case you wanted to continue your denegration of my alma mater, here's LSU's future OOC schedule.....

2005....North Texas and Arizona State
2006....ULL, Northern Illinois and Arizona
2007....Virginia Tech and Southern Miss.

 

[truelyhandicapping]

Both Osu and Texas are one dimensional teams. If you put those teams against LSU, UGA, and UT they would not be able to move the ball. The SEC is not as strong as it was last year but then again Florida is the best 7-4 team in the nation. The Big 12 is joke this year... Texas A&M is a fraud and so is OSU.... Just like last year the SEC was 3-0 against the Big 12 in bowls. Likely the same story again. One more point, Texas(2nd best team in Big 12) played at Arkansas(7th best team in SEC) and only won by 4 or 5.

lets not get carried away with tenn, but you make some good points. texas barely won at Ark-who is broke. Georgia is a good, but

their are only four teams, californai, usc, auburn, and utah....everyone else sucks.

 

[hut1]

The BCS is nothing but a joke. All other football divisions have playoffs but not the NCAA division 1. Hell even high schools have playoffs. Folks its all about the money but if they had half a brain the ncaa could make more money using a system with playoffs and the bowls together.

If a team is undefeated it deserves a chance to play for a national championship. Doesn't make a damn what their non-conference schedule is.
Auburn and Utah should not be left out. Top eight teams at the end of the season should be in a playoff system starting the week after the conference championship games. Use the bowls as elimanation games. Have the national championship game on Jan 1. Rotating the bowls that carry the #1 game each year.

How difficult could this be? But this is just my opinion.

 

[WCBias]

Pete...I am having a small laugh because I intentionally threw out LSU to see how long it would take you to respond. I'm not doggin' em, I actually have a lot of respect for LSU, last year's team was as good of college D I've seen and this year's has been extremely good too. They were one of my few wins last week so whoever wins me money is OK by me.

Besides, where's my place to knock a program. Oregon State learned their lesson and so they open their remodeled stadium next year against a Division II team.

I get a kick out of the fact Sammy started this thread, and I'm not so sure he didn't do it just to see who would fall for his trap.

Hey GoSooners, I don't know who you think has a West Coast Bias...certainly not me. Dog USC all you want but they just crushed a team that beat the SEC East champ in their own crib. And beat Auburn in Auburn last year. Destroyed Iowa two years ago. Beat Michigan last year. And beat ACC co-champ V-Tech in a game played in their own back yard. See, USC may beat up on your so-called pansies in the Pac 10, but they also beat up on the best teams from other conferences, do not shy away from playing them, and deserve every bit of respect they are getting right now.

I know, Oklahoma had those stand-out home wins against Oregon and Bowling Green, and their defense shined like no other against OK State, A&M, and several other marginal teams this year. I'm sure USC doesn't have anywhere near the athletes to match up with Oklahoma's D, which is ranked 16th, BEHIND both Virginia Tech and Cal. You'd make a much better argument to me that USC won't be able to stop Oklahoma's offense, specifically its run offense.

Once you can explain how Oklahoma played in the national championship after losing by 4 touchdowns last year in the Big 12 title game and Nebraska played in the national championship game three years ago after losing by four touchdowns and not even playing in the Big 12 title game, then you can pop-off about there being a Pac 10 bias, because it sure seems to me that there is a Big 12 bias. Oh yeah, Oklahoma got spanked by LSU and Colorado, the Big 12 champ in 2001 got absolutely *****-slapped by Oregon. You sure the Pac 10 is a joke?

By the way, Cal is the 2nd best team in the Pac 10, and they would have a field day with the 2nd best team in the Big 12, the one that has problems just saying the word "pass", much less executing it. The same one that lost to...that's right...a Pac 10 team in their bowl game last year.

As for the rest of the Pac 10, they suck, just like the rest of the Big 12 and the rest of the Big 10 and the rest of the SEC and the rest of the ACC. Some times they are good, sometimes they stink up the place.

Even though I'm an instigator, I'm actually tiring of the debate. There are about eight elite teams, and on any given day one of them could probably knock off another. The only good thing about it is there is so much debate and public interest (ire?) that maybe someday in our lifetime we will get what we all want, a college football tournament.

 

[truelyhandicapping]

all it takes?


for auburn and utah not to show up to their game.

it seems things usually works out, except last year of course.

i still oklahoma has a good chance of losing to colorado outright, this oklahoma isn't very good guys. they couldn't get the ball past the 50 yard line last year in the championship, and now their to best defenseive players play on sunday.

last year oklahoma destroyed teams in the big 12, had baylor, a'm, texas all beat by half by 40 points, this year they struggled with a'm and texas, and was a made field goal away of going into ot with osu.

the big 12 and every lover needs to get of the steer and realize they are years behind in offense and recruiting, it was a good ride boys, now get off the damn bus.

texas couldn't cross the 50 vs a wash st team last year, kstate looked like a jv vs ohio st, and we know how oklahoma looked.


why ***** though, its easy money for us.

 

[MrGoodDr]

Well last year, is just that " last year".

QB White for Sooners was hurt in the Kansas State game last year and that explains the poor performance in that game and the LSU contest. OBTW people seem to think that going into Super Dome an playing the Tigers is easy, well think again.
Oh you folks seem to forget when the Sooners went to the Orange Bowl last time as 10 or so point doggie to FSU, how soon we forget.

Now on to the Free pass that USC keeps getting into the #1 spot. This poster is NOT so sure that they deserve that and think that the rotation could be OU-Auburn an then USC.
If you belive in the strength of schedule then thats where it should fall.
But as most things happen in this world "time will tell". JMO !

 

[TartanDuck]

OU simply does not have the Defense they have had in the past. I really hope LSU and Texas go head to head in the Cotton Bowl. LSU is gonna pimp slap em, mark my words. Vince Young can't throw up and Mack Brown can't coach his way out of a paper bag. The Big 12 is an absolute disgrace this year. I do however have a lot of respect for T-Tech. i think they are a legit team. Everyone else is ranked much higher than they ought to be. I think the Big 12 North is worse than the WAC.

 

[GoSooners]

Pete...I am having a small laugh because I intentionally threw out LSU to see how long it would take you to respond. I'm not doggin' em, I actually have a lot of respect for LSU, last year's team was as good of college D I've seen and this year's has been extremely good too. They were one of my few wins last week so whoever wins me money is OK by me.

Besides, where's my place to knock a program. Oregon State learned their lesson and so they open their remodeled stadium next year against a Division II team.

I get a kick out of the fact Sammy started this thread, and I'm not so sure he didn't do it just to see who would fall for his trap.

Hey GoSooners, I don't know who you think has a West Coast Bias...certainly not me. Dog USC all you want but they just crushed a team that beat the SEC East champ in their own crib. And beat Auburn in Auburn last year. Destroyed Iowa two years ago. Beat Michigan last year. And beat ACC co-champ V-Tech in a game played in their own back yard. See, USC may beat up on your so-called pansies in the Pac 10, but they also beat up on the best teams from other conferences, do not shy away from playing them, and deserve every bit of respect they are getting right now.

I know, Oklahoma had those stand-out home wins against Oregon and Bowling Green, and their defense shined like no other against OK State, A&M, and several other marginal teams this year. I'm sure USC doesn't have anywhere near the athletes to match up with Oklahoma's D, which is ranked 16th, BEHIND both Virginia Tech and Cal. You'd make a much better argument to me that USC won't be able to stop Oklahoma's offense, specifically its run offense.

Once you can explain how Oklahoma played in the national championship after losing by 4 touchdowns last year in the Big 12 title game and Nebraska played in the national championship game three years ago after losing by four touchdowns and not even playing in the Big 12 title game, then you can pop-off about there being a Pac 10 bias, because it sure seems to me that there is a Big 12 bias. Oh yeah, Oklahoma got spanked by LSU and Colorado, the Big 12 champ in 2001 got absolutely *****-slapped by Oregon. You sure the Pac 10 is a joke?

By the way, Cal is the 2nd best team in the Pac 10, and they would have a field day with the 2nd best team in the Big 12, the one that has problems just saying the word "pass", much less executing it. The same one that lost to...that's right...a Pac 10 team in their bowl game last year.

As for the rest of the Pac 10, they suck, just like the rest of the Big 12 and the rest of the Big 10 and the rest of the SEC and the rest of the ACC. Some times they are good, sometimes they stink up the place.

Even though I'm an instigator, I'm actually tiring of the debate. There are about eight elite teams, and on any given day one of them could probably knock off another. The only good thing about it is there is so much debate and public interest (ire?) that maybe someday in our lifetime we will get what we all want, a college football tournament.

W.C.Bias I don't dog USC. I just question the company they keep in the Pac 10. They should have been beat by California. They could have been beat by no rated Stanford and almost got beat by 6-5 Oregon St. You shoudn't be doggin 10-1 teams that OU had to play like Texas when your team almost gets beat by one good team and a couple of cupcakes. Knock the Big 12 all you want, but I'm seeing 4 of their teams in the top 25, plus Colorado who is rated in the top 25 in the BCS.
I thought USC was a good team "last year". They did go to Auburn and win. But Auburn dropped 5 games last year. So how good were they? USC did beat Michigan in friendly California in the Rose Bowl. But Michigan was just a nice top 10 team. They weren't a top rated team. Yet USC still backed in to a share of the National Title.
I'll be the first OU fan here to say that i don't believe OU deserved to be in the title game last year. I believe it should have been LSU and USC. LSU had a great team last year. I still believe they would have easily beaten USC. Especially since it was played down in the Sugar Bowl, which was as good as an LSU home game.
But all of that was last year. LSU isn't as good this year. And neither is the SEC outside of Auburn. The next highest rated teams in the SEC are Georgia, who barely got by Ga.Tech last week, and Tennessee, who we all know is really struggling. I believe conference strength means something. LSU didn't have overwhelming stats last year. That's because that conference was double tough. And it was a struggle just to win every week. Because many of the teams in the SEC like Arkansas, Florida and Tennessee are rebuilding this year, I don't see that kind of conference strength that I saw last year.
I believe the Big 12 overall is the best conference this year. I know the Big 12 North has struggled. But most of OU's games have come in the Big 12 South. With 5 out of the 6 teams in the South being in the top 20 at one time or another this year, those stats alone make it the toughest division in college football. OU has had to play 4 out of those 5 teams on the road. That's why I believe OU has the tougher schedule than USC or Auburn. And that's why I like their chances more in the Championship game. Unlike last year, I believe OU more than derserves to be there this year. And don't get your hopes up in the Big 12 championship game either. OU "WILL" win. :finger:

 

[TheD.I.G.]

The next highest rated teams in the SEC are Georgia, who barely got by Ga.Tech last week, and Tennessee, who we all know is really struggling.

Yea, Texas really blew Kansas away and Oklahoma St or A&M or anybody else in the big 12 would be stellar w/ thier third string QB, oh wait, Kansas must be pretty good w/ thier third stringer cause an official had to give the longhorns that game and a 5-6 Arkansas team to give them that game too.

And the cycle goes round and round.

The SEC may be "down" this year, but it feels like every conference is "down" this year. Most conferences have 1 or 2 very good teams and otherwise avg to mediocre teams.

Auburn was extremely talented last year. You see what an offensive coordinator has done in 1 year w/ a less talented team. Auburn Defense was 6th in the country last year w/ no offensive help. The front seven included a more talented line to go along w/ 2 linebackers who start as rookies in the NFL.

But once again IF's are like candies and nuts.....and you know the rest

 

[WCBias]

Go Sooners....

You don't have to copy my entire diatribe...I'll respond if you just say my name. I'm not a USC fan either, I'm an Oregon State fan, and would have enjoyed nothing more than to see the Beavers beat USC. My moniker came about primarily because prior to the evolution of USC, the Pac 10 constantly got dogged. i.e., a one-loss oregon state team didn't get a sniff to play in the BCS title game after the 2000 season over Miami, FSU, or Oklahoma. Oregon got royally screwed a year later, in favor of both Nebraska AND Colorado...and as you even admit, USC was ranked #1 by the coaches and press, but didn't play for the national title.

I find it amusing that you point out USC's three shortcomings this year but seem to ignore Oklahoma's. Both teams have played poorly at times, both teams have kicked ass at times.

I have nothing against Oklahoma, or the Big 12 south for that matter. And like I said, I think they can expose some flaws in USC's defense. I also think USC can expose Oklahoma's defensive deficiencies as well as their special team problems. It's a good matchup. I compared Oklahoma's year this year to Ohio State's two years ago, but the same could be said for USC...sometimes you win ugly, but a win is a win.

I certainly don't think Oklahoma's "athletes" rank with USC's "athletes". USC has at least 12 guys starting that will be playing on Sundays, probably more. The vast majority of their starters are underclassmen. The reason they have stumbled at times this year is because they are a very young and inexperienced team, especially on the offensive line. I'd also give USC an edge in depth and coaching.

My take on it is if USC played Oklahoma 10 times on a neutral field, USC would win 6. I'm guessing most objective college football fans feel the same way. I'm guessing people with monikers like GoSooners disagree. I don't blame you, if it was Oregon State rather than Oklahoma, I'd be drowing in subjectiveness too.

And I would hope Oklahoma wins on Saturday, I don't think I said anywhere that I thought they would lose. But if you want to flip me off, no worries...

 

[FairWarning]

Now on to the Free pass that USC keeps getting into the #1 spot. This poster is NOT so sure that they deserve that and think that the rotation could be OU-Auburn an then USCUSC cannot control their conference schedule but they can control their nonconference schedule. Auburn is getting a pass and more should be made of this.

 

[sammythesage]

YES, YES, YES , we have a winner in Fair Warning!!!! The only ONE to see the LIGHT!!!