FOR ALL OF THOSE PEOPLE INTERESTED IN BECOMING A BOOKIE THIS IS REQUIRED READING....

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recently there seems to have been quite a bit of interest from people wanting to get in the business of booking either on a local or offshore level.....so i thought this would be a good time to share my "think long and hard about this" story.
i grew up in the business, in the beginning my people never once suggested that i book for a living, when i was a teenager i ran routes, and did the meanial stuff, getting the kind of education college cant give.. but it was assumed and expected that i would get a "regularjob".. "you need to go to college, get an education, ect." was what i heard growing up.
when it became obvious what i planned to do, my dad told me, son this isnt always fun and games
its alot harder than what people realize.
it still didnt matter i had my mind set.
i didnt expect alot of help from dad, his way of helping was letting me get "first hand experience" in the beginning his only advice was "in this business your word is your bond, always pay your players on time and in full always, always, .....he didnt mention anything about how to actually run a book, even though i had been around it all my life i was still very green.
the first year i opened shop was during baskets, (he did suggest that i wait until foots next year, now i know why). but i just couldnt wait.
my first customers were a few friends and people they had gotten the word out to. in all about 30 people total. i was ready to do business, dad kept me up to date with the lines and moves.
this is how my first year went. i had one guy that played every nba game for 200 a piece, for the first couple of weeks he couldnt miss, he was killing any chance of a profit. i was convinced he was a "wise guy" so i asked dad if he would fade half the action. pops said ok.....well you can guess what happened next..all of a sudden he cant win anything, finally i think to myself i get to collect from him, he blew about 3dimes that week
(hed already been paid about 5dimes previously).
even though he blew, it wasnt a good week everyone else was plus for the week. i had 25k to use for a bankroll (thought it was more than enough, wasnt even close) that week i was paying the winners damn near 15k, so i really needed the 3k from my "sharp". i call him, and call, and i can still call him to this very day and get the same result, nada i got stiffed.
while i was stewing over this prick, dad calls and wants to know when im ready to settle (i forgot all about him fading half).
this is when class started....i told him i couldnt get a hold of the guy, dad says so...YOU CALLED THE BETS IN TO ME.. i said yeah but he.....YOU CALLED THE BETS IN TO ME....he repeated. then he proceded into an hour long lecture, during which my only response to him was yes sir or no sir..end result i get stiffed and still have to pay dad 1500 on top of that..
then things really got bad. it turns out that the majority of people on my book were "rejects or stiffs from other established books" slow pay, no pay, claims, you name it. one week guys would win 2k, the next week blow a dime and come with three hundred stuff like that.
this shit wasnt any fun at all....
i manage to lose almost my entire bankroll, and with baskets over,( not enough interest in bases)and no real chance to recover until football season...i was broke and depressed...and actually scared..what am i going to do? bills still have to be paid.....i asked pops if he had any work i could do. so its back to delivering scratch sheets and racing forms, (no gas allowance either)and if the lawn needed to be mowed that too.
i beat the bushes for more customers, weeded out the stiffs, and dad said he had a few players that hed turn my way..turns out that these were very old and senile 2 dollar horse players and 10 and 20 dollar sports bettors, and dad spread the word quickly amongst the other books that i would gladly take any of the "small" players they didnt want anymore.. hey beggors cant be choosers..
i still had one major problem.. with football season gearing up i had no bankroll, pride kept me from asking dad for money..
that first football season one of the lowest points was when i had to sell my car so i could pay people the next day. the following week made a trip to the pawn shop...maxed all my credit cards out on personal bills... yep this bookmaking thing was really starting to take off. but eventually things started to turn around, the third season was good (didnt have a losing week in foots).
when things started going good, i assumed i knew it all then, but actually i was just a different shade of green. i can say one thing about this business, it isnt for everyone...
 
Good story Dime.
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thanks.......let me add this, IMO this business is more about character than anything else.....something that guys who run books like PRO-5 dont have...... that year i was dumb enough to book without a solid bankroll, and promptly went busted, i didnt hesitate to sell everything i owned, to settle with my people, making sacrifices that most business ventures dont require. the guys running PRO 5 should be willing to do whatever it takes to pay people whats owed, if not they are nothing but stiffs on the other side of the counter..
 
DPO;

great story man. That surely sounds like it is. Rough as fvck when you are starting off. I wanted to comment on something you wrote:

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>.......let me add this, IMO this business is more about character than anything else..... <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

I think you are right on the money here, bro. In this business, if you are a guy who honors his debts; you will do whatever it takes to pay your players on time. Those who do not posses this character and dignity will find any excuse to not pay you. Even if they're sitting on a pile of cash.

In this industry the stand-up are easily to be spotted. They are rare.

Again, great read DimePlayersOnly, thanks for sharing
 

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Dime do you believe starting up is any more difficult than starting anyother small business?
I have yet to see any business where start up is not a bitch. What I am asking is are there obstacles to over come that would not be typical of any business model.. payroll advertising, new customers, financing,etc. Looking back witha magic wand what decisions would be made differently? Thanks in advance for your comments.
 

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RANCHSTYLERAY........yes hindsight is 20/20
would i do anything different yes....but im glad i had it hard
then, because it helped me see that this biz isnt all ez street.

the main thing is when starting out is "proper bankroll" and booking action that fits into it...(judges motto)
i remember a few times i had guys that were normally dollar players want to bet nickles......bankroll said no, but i booked it anyway....(which you just shouldnt do and wouldnt do again)

but even having a proper bankroll doesnt mean anything, if you dont have a clue on how to run a book..

every year before football season i look for "newbies" starting up books that have the bankroll but not the knowledge of what they are doing (spot em very quickly) and bet at them.....usually they dont even last a season..

starting a book now, as opposed to 20yrs or even 10yrs ago is so much more difficult (ask anyone else if you dont believe me)

more competition, player access to more info, laws, casinos,
all add up to a very tough outlook in this business..

but if you have a good customer base (mostly squares)
and your a post up shop.....its hard to f-it up.....but so many books do.....IMO poor management is the only reason..

if your a credit shop QUALITY not quanity is the key...

players that pay......not even high-end players is ok give me a fify or a dollar bettor that bets the board over a nickle bettor any day.....reason is the dollar bettor will still be around while the nickle bettor has to file for bankruptcy and divorce (wife found out about his gambling) when it comes to credit players smaller = bettor,.....dont get me wrong there are solid high end players out there........but not as many as you would think...

the majority of established credit shops are like an exclusive country club. a person just cant join without a referral, or at least post-up funds at first. even a good local wants a reference, if they dont id be worried.

bookmaking requires long hours, sacrifices (mainly personal at first) discipline, even temper, being able to handle stress, alot of characteristics that other business dont require...

i always joke around by saying bookmakers are born not made......but actually that has some truth to it...most of the books that stay in business are run by people that have been around it all of their lives (dad, uncle, close friend) that sort of thing....

if a person who had no knowledge whatsoever of bookmaking went to work for a book at enry level (clerk) and worked their way up to management, id say after 10 or so yrs in the biz they might, i say might be ready to run one.....then again maybe not.

if you were to have the proper bankroll, got a license, moved offshore to a country that didnt hassle you, somehow found a good customer base, good software, good people to help run it.........then my friend all youll have to worry about is the wise guys and syndicates that can bust you in a weekend if your not careful.......sounds fun doesnt it?...lol
 

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Dime Thank you again for your input.

Excluding ownership being degenerate gamblers and insuffient bankroll, what are the most common mistakes made by new shops?
The customer base of sports players do you see those demograghics increasing? Is there a concern of market demand leveling off? The Asian market is often refered to as the greatest growth market..are they playing sports or the online casinos? In your opinion is an online casino neccessary to compete?

In the industries I have been associated with the survivors were well networked amongst each other.. sharing of revenue streams, working partnerships, sharing of cost of infastructure etc. In your opinion is this neccessary or is this something that can be developed over time.

Dime do you feel there is still room for the small shop to come into the market place? I have spoken to several people in the business who say 1mil bankroll as a min. or do not bother. I asked The Judge a while back the same question and and he felt 25k might do it for a small credit shop. I appreciate your candor thanks again
 

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as far as starting out a credit shop.....
the biggest mistake is trying to grow too fast taking on too much too soon....build your reserve and service your customers....

bookmakers offer a service nothing more...as soon as they forget about offering good service its over. i put a tremendous amount of effort in that dept.

do your best to make every customer feel like hes #1 simple stuff really....every christmas (no matter what kind of season i had) i spend the money and get each customer a bottle of crown whiskey, or for the non drinkers fruit baskets, doesnt matter if they are small players that bet a few games a year or nickle guys that bet week in week out...

the market is still growing, recently a major book decided to concentrate on the european market instead of the U.S.
(more profit potential they said..

the asians love to gamble.......on everyting ,i went to vietnam several years ago for a month......the gov. has a lottery with winners everday, gambling is very much a part of asian culture.... ive got several groups on my book and they love to bet on sports (mainly squares too) one day they may bet all dogs or bet every total and go under...and they are good for the money never had a stiff....knock on wood

so i dont see sports betting leveling off, the players of today are smarter and that means the books will have to hustle more to keep an edge. also much more comp. between books.

do i think 25K is enough to open a small credit shop? now... yes i could do it...because ive been through the pitfalls.

but a first-timer booking say 20-30 hundred dollar players.......i dunno three losing weeks in a row, throw in a few sharps and stiffs (just like my first go at it)...and its gone just like that...

my advice for people looking to get in the biz on a credit level is to work on a % basis with a book thats already established..you find the customers and turn in the action and book what you can afford...this way you can still get the high-end players just keep a lower % on those types...this way youll get your feet wet without carrying the whole load...


i cant speak for the offshore post-up shops as far as how the future looks.......too many laws, taxes ect....making a big impact maybe someone thats in that section can give a better answer.
 

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thought i would bump this.....every year about this time there seems to be people eager to start up a book.......



gl
 

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let me add this.......a little bit of luck helps too....



alot of the successfull offshore books were started in the states by bookmakers that got rich booking the right people at the right time...(being in the right place at the right time has its advantages)


i have seen bookmakers beat a player out of hundreds of thousands of dollars..........and that same player thinking he cant win with him , start betting with another bookmaker and that player would beat him out hundreds of thousands....go figure..
 

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This thread rings truer every time I re-read, DPO.

Thanks for taking the time to write it up.

Something that is painfully familiar is this part:

that week i was paying the winners damn near 15k, so i really needed the 3k from my "sharp". i call him, and call, and i can still call him to this very day and get the same result, nada i got stiffed.

I was stupid enough to let a buddy -my brother from a different mother- run me up to -35K. I haven't seen that ****** or talked to him for that matter since that Tuesday he said he was moving to L.A. and hauling all his shit across the country.

He had referred some asshats too... all of them he was "good for".

You know what was the toughest lesson I had to learn? I had nobody to blame it all on... but my own greed and lack of common sense. That and having to write it off.

It was a major turn of the path for me.
 

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