Fletch - what is you opinion

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Most discussions to date have Romney vs Obama in November but Santorum turned some heads yesterday. You say it is a toss up R vs O, one is as bad as the other, and a write in for Ron Paul. What about Santorum vs. Obama? Would that change your mind?

Obviously yesterday shook the foundations of the Republican hierarchy. Everyone has counted the Tea Party down and out probably because they are not standing across the street from the Occupiers. But, maybe main stream conservatism is closer to the surface than many thought. I did not hear anyone predicting a Santorum sweep.

Do you think Paul would have more leverage with Santorum and would that influence any libertarians to vote Republican instead of writing in Paul?
 

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Ron Paul is a cult leader, he will not support any other candidate besides himself.
 

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Russ,

He may have turned some heads but Santorum is still significantly behind on delegate count. Winning States isn't the main criteria. Missouri represents 0 delegates, so they're just eye candy. I can't say I'm that impressed.
 

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Russ,

He may have turned some heads but Santorum is still significantly behind on delegate count. Winning States isn't the main criteria. Missouri represents 0 delegates, so they're just eye candy. I can't say I'm that impressed.

My point is that I just can't see wasting a vote by going the write in route. I wonder if Santorum is more appealing to libertarians and whether or not Santorum would elicit a checkmark in lieu of a write in. Personally, I would be more inclined to vote in such a way that my vote would have some impact, either vote someone in or vote someone out. Obama was such a disappointment and people who don't like Romney say there's not much difference between the two. There are big differences between the two if you look at the overall picture. I am not convinced that write in votes are in the end constructive.
 

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In general, I would agree with you Russ. Of course, the naysayers could tell us to look at the last vote in Alaska and they could prove us wrong. But I would doubt they could ever find one that's been effective for a Presidential candidate.
 

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Santorum is a Libertarian nightmare. He is worse then Romney IMO. Hes first and foremost a civil liberty antagonist and would do all he could to put this country back socially into the dark ages. And economically, he an absolute whore. Hes not a fiscal conservative by any stretch, he favors big government. He is basically George Bush but without the "compassionate conservative" strain.


Here is a piece i wrote about him.

http://fileintothetrough.blogspot.com/2011/12/santorum-poses-for-first-token-hunting.html
 

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Getting to know "The Vest" : in his words



Rick Santorum is about as polarizing as an elected official can get in today's era of overly sensitive politically correctness. The man who once compared gay marriage to a person marrying a box turtle, is never short on his disdain for anything not Hetro. But it was this curious quote that attacks all Liberty and freedom that got me curious and i went looking and found two other interesting revelations. Its obvious the more people that got to know him from his surprising finish in Iowa why his bounce from the state of corn was only a thud.


"The definition of liberty as our founders understood it, was freedom with responsibility and we've sort of lost that edge. We have a whole society - you've heard the "me" generation - if it feels good do it - just do it, it's an entire culture that's focused on immediate gratification and the pursuit of happiness and personal pleasure and it's harming America."

It was the Declaration of Independence that inspired us and led to the revolutionary war and subsequent freedom from the rule of England. It was this document that paved a way for this Republics rise as a beacon of light in a world full of tyranny and oppression because, as it was said: “We hold these truths to be self-evident, that all men are created equal, that they are endowed by their Creator with certain unalienable Rights, that among these are; Life, Liberty and the pursuit of Happiness"
These are called the unalienable rights of man; thus they are born with each individual and no government has the right to infringe upon, alter or take them away. These are said to be from "their Creator" and knowing Santorum to be a Christian, his Creator is one that allows free will. How can one have free will if a governing body is to dictate what quantifies and qualifies as morality? Wasnt it Jesus who drew the ire of his Jewish elders for the company he kept? Never passing judgement on anyone? So, why doesnt the Senator ask: What Would Jesus Do?



"The idea is that the state doesn't have rights to limit individuals' wants and passions. I disagree with that. I think we absolutely have rights because there are consequences to letting people live out whatever wants or passions they desire. And we're seeing it in our society." Associated Press, 4/7/03

Wasn’t freedom of religion one of the tenants for coming to this nation? Imagine the irony today where one religion reverts back to the ways of the King of England and would rather impose tyranny rather then freedom to further push their interpretation of God. Has the Religious Right forgotten how much it despises others trying to discredit or infringe upon their freedom to worship?


“One of the criticisms I make is to what I refer to as more of a Libertarianish right. They have this idea that people should be left alone, be able to do whatever they want to do, government should keep our taxes down and keep our regulations low, that we shouldn’t get involved in the bedroom, we shouldn’t get involved in cultural issues. That is not how traditional conservatives view the world. There is no such society that I’m aware of, where we’ve had radical individualism and that it succeeds as a culture.” 9/4/05 NPR

Rick Santorum and his ilk hate the individual having the freedom to do as they please even if it’s not harming anyone else. He doesn’t like Libertarianism because Libertarianism is based on… Liberty. Liberty is the ability to act out ones own ideas and wishes without discrimination but with respect for others to do the same. It’s the essence and backbone of this nation and this guy doesn’t like it. Worse, he refuses to stand for it regardless if he doesnt agree with it. Enough said.
 

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I agree with everything Santorum said there. Only pedophiles, racists, druggies, and criminals want a society with out laws. No thanks Ron Paul!!
 

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I agree with everything Santorum said there. Only pedophiles, racists, druggies, and criminals want a society with out laws. No thanks Ron Paul!!

Of course you would. You are a nanny state loving mother fucker, why would anyone expect anything else out of you. I would hate to wake up everyday and know i was you... if i were you. You should probably consider suicide.
 

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Of course you would. You are a nanny state loving mother fucker, why would anyone expect anything else out of you. I would hate to wake up everyday and know i was you... if i were you. You should probably consider suicide.

Us normal people like being protected from creepers like you. I don't want to live in a cesspool of filth and pedophiles like you do!
 

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This happened back in December and this guy is a Libertarian. I am not as shocked about what he said about Obama as what he inferred about the general public. I will comment below the article:

Libertarian who called Obama a 'monkey' probed by Secret Service



The Secret Service is investigating threats made against President Obama on Facebook by a former libertarian city council candidate in Carson.
"We are aware of the incident and are going to conduct appropriate followup," said Secret Service spokesman George Ogilvie.
In his post, Jules Manson calls Obama a a racial epithet and suggests he should be assassinated.
Manson, who ran for office on a Libertarian platform in the Carson race in March, called Obama a "monkey" in an online screed on the passage of the National Defense Authorization Act. The act has raised the ire of activists because it permits indefinite detention without trial for some terrorism suspects.

In a comment on the Facebook post, Manson added: "Assassinate the [president] and his monkey children." He used an obscenity followed by a racial epithet to describe the president. The post had been removed from Manson's Facebook page Tuesday, but the blog Your Black Politics captured and posted a screenshot of it, including the coarse language.
Manson described the comments on his Facebook page as "careless, emotionally driven remarks that had no real substance" and wrote, "Not including my regular friends whom I converse with often or have in the past and always welcome their comments and posts, I do not believe many of you are concerned citizens. Most of you were simply looking for drama to demonstrate your politically correct righteousness."
In another Facebook post, Manson said he had been visited by U.S. Secret Service agents.
Manson lost the Carson council race by a wide margin, garnering only 550 votes.

My comment: Obviously this guy made some stupid remarks. What scares me most though this comment:
"Most of you were simply looking for drama to demonstrate your politically correct righteousness."
This guy may not be a prototype Libertarian if indeed there is any such thing but something drove him to make remarks that the "most of you" would never have made much less publicly. I would suggest it was he that was using drama for whatever reasons.

I don't have a problem with Libertarianisms and agree with them about many things but they are a political minority. Fletch I am not lumping all Libertarians with this idiot but from the outside looking in being a Libertarian is much more than an uphill battle as far as effecting change goes. I think they deserve a voice and that Libertarians make much more sense then Democrats in many ways. I guess my biggest problem is with your comment that there is not much difference between Obama and the Republican candidates.

This recent decision by Obama on health care pissed off Catholics but it was about taking away a freedom. If someone claims to be a Libertarian how can that person support Obama in light of this latest "drama" alone. Ron Paul has some great ideas, so do all the other candidates including Obama. But the secret is to get elected. I saw Stossel on Good Morning America this morning talking about how he was suppressed by the lame stream media before he got to Fox. He described the lame stream as "like minded people" who basically had no tolerance for those who thought differently. My question is how can a Libertarian endorse someone who is not a Libertarian and how does that differ from the "like minded people" description of the lame stream liberal media. There is no one candidate that can be all things to all people.
 

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I dont endorse Obama, nor do I ever plan to vote Democrat. My only reasoning to leaning more Republican is they are supposed to be the party of grown ups who balance the check book. Think about it, spending money and kicking the bill down the road is the easiest thing to do in politics and life... ask any 18 year old freshman in college with a new credit card. Economics is the key to my voting, because with a smaller government you can have more civil libertys preserved a bigger government takes them away, so take away the common denominator, spending and you have both desires filled.
 

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I dont endorse Obama, nor do I ever plan to vote Democrat. My only reasoning to leaning more Republican is they are supposed to be the party of grown ups who balance the check book. Think about it, spending money and kicking the bill down the road is the easiest thing to do in politics and life... ask any 18 year old freshman in college with a new credit card. Economics is the key to my voting, because with a smaller government you can have more civil libertys preserved a bigger government takes them away, so take away the common denominator, spending and you have both desires filled.

:):)
 

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I dont endorse Obama, nor do I ever plan to vote Democrat. My only reasoning to leaning more Republican is they are supposed to be the party of grown ups who balance the check book. Think about it, spending money and kicking the bill down the road is the easiest thing to do in politics and life... ask any 18 year old freshman in college with a new credit card. Economics is the key to my voting, because with a smaller government you can have more civil libertys preserved a bigger government takes them away, so take away the common denominator, spending and you have both desires filled.

That 18 year old freshman is not a country. What you are advocating would destroy the country, which is exactly why it will never happen. And if it did happen, the consequences that would occur would make sure it hopefully never happens again. Santorum, Romney, Newt, or Obama will continue to spend. Santorum or Newt would probably start another trillion dollar war in Iran... which is typical Republican stimulus.
 

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Can you cite where i have ever insinuated as this, much less come out in my support of the man? If i supported anyone it would not be a mystery. Obama is Romeny. Period. Have fun splitting hairs on that beast.
 

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romney, newt, or obama will continue to spend. Santorum or newt would probably start another trillion dollar war in iran... Which is typical republican stimulus.

qft
 
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Voted Romney & mailed absentee ballot yesterday so Ohio should go Romney right?... We'll see..
 

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I agree that Libertarians are more likely to like Romney over Santorum, but most likely wont vote for either. Who's that Republican Senator from South Carolina? Jim Demint? I think that's his name. If he were running I could libertarians going for a Republican like him or one that is similar to him.
 

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I agree that Libertarians are more likely to like Romney over Santorum, but most likely wont vote for either. Who's that Republican Senator from South Carolina? Jim Demint? I think that's his name. If he were running I could libertarians going for a Republican like him or one that is similar to him.

DeMint is actually only one of the Republicans who will actually talk about making cuts to defense so he has always had my ear. I find it despicable how often these "small government" Republicans talk the talk but dont have a set of balls to walk the walk. Maybe they dont want to piss off industry in their districts, maybe they have alot of money vested into them from K-Street, whatever the case may be, cutting defense has become third rail politics and to me thats sad. Kind of shows how far we have fell into the abyss. Go back and look at Willies thread crying about Connecticut losing 5% of its defense contracts. Its absolutely despicable and nothing will change unless we can start putting ALL OPTIONS on the table. Not just those that dont effect us or our reelection.
 

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