It is not only very big, but more important is that it forces smart gamblers to trade.
Straight gamblers will seldomly be affected by it.
Rob,
Have a look at this thread in which I already mentioned several years ago that Matchbook had to change their commission structure:
http://www.therxforum.com/showthread.php?t=321333&page=2
It took them some time, but they finally did it. I think it will only be a matter of time for BetFair to do the same. Question is when?
Exchanges
Hi
You've made some decent points and I will answer all as soon as I have a few moments this week.
Only have time to leave you with 1 thought for now...
I dont think it makes a lot of sense to not have a Matchbook account. At the same time, if you dont have a Pinny account and a Betfair account to go with your Matchbook account, AND you are not taking a few moments to understand how to extract value from having accounts at all 3 of these places - you are making one of the biggest rookie mistakes imo.
After all, you're spending time to come over here, check out the forums and make informed sportsbetting decisions...why not take the time to find the best value possible. It doesnt take tons of time, either.
Have an account at all 3 (at the very least) if you can, have a few bucks in each place and look for value.
Then there's the whole Risk thing...I dont think anybody would disagree with me if I said that having a huge amount of money in your Betfair account is not in the least bit risky. Pinny might be a bit riskier and
Matchbook...well, I personally don't keep a huge amount in there at any 1 time. Which sucks because sometimes I want to trade out for a profit and can't because I was too worried to leave a good chunk of money in there for an extended period of time.
Rob
Hi
You've made some decent points and I will answer all as soon as I have a few moments this week.
Only have time to leave you with 1 thought for now...
I dont think it makes a lot of sense to not have a Matchbook account. At the same time, if you dont have a Pinny account and a Betfair account to go with your Matchbook account, AND you are not taking a few moments to understand how to extract value from having accounts at all 3 of these places - you are making one of the biggest rookie mistakes imo.
After all, you're spending time to come over here, check out the forums and make informed sportsbetting decisions...why not take the time to find the best value possible. It doesnt take tons of time, either.
Have an account at all 3 (at the very least) if you can, have a few bucks in each place and look for value.
Then there's the whole Risk thing...I dont think anybody would disagree with me if I said that having a huge amount of money in your Betfair account is not in the least bit risky. Pinny might be a bit riskier and
Matchbook...well, I personally don't keep a huge amount in there at any 1 time. Which sucks because sometimes I want to trade out for a profit and can't because I was too worried to leave a good chunk of money in there for an extended period of time.
Rob
That's right Rob. You can even find "surebets" if you got both Matchbook and Betfair.
I like Betfair's soccer & tennis market. Liquidty is great! But Matchbook's structure is much better imo. Amazing in American Sports.. I can't even use Pinnacle, LoL!
I can understand things better now , thanks!betfair is pretty cool you know... ! @)
Betfair Commission is 2-5%
just wanted to clarify that Betfair comission is between 2-5%. The more you play, the lower your commission rate will be.
Also by playing ring poker games, you will be able to reduce the commission rate that you pay on your sports betting.
just wanted to clarify that Betfair comission is between 2-5%. The more you play, the lower your commission rate will be.
Also by playing ring poker games, you will be able to reduce the commission rate that you pay on your sports betting.
Working for betfair
We do have sub-affiliates (just an affiliate of a big affiliate). We also have legal bookies who use the Betfair interface to allow others to place bets through them. I think some legal bookies in the UK do this. Again they dont work for Betfair - they are like a super-affiliate.
Hope that answers your question.
Rob
I make no commission AT ALL. Besides, Betfair commission rates are pretty low - it's not like a bookmaker where margins are big. Betfair has about 1400 people working for them and many country managers. Nobody who works at Betfair makes a commission.
We do have sub-affiliates (just an affiliate of a big affiliate). We also have legal bookies who use the Betfair interface to allow others to place bets through them. I think some legal bookies in the UK do this. Again they dont work for Betfair - they are like a super-affiliate.
Hope that answers your question.
Rob
Rob
I loved what Betfair stood for in the early days but frankly now it really isn't an option unless you are a trader, completely price insensitive or have fallen for the 20% better odds false hype.
I bet UK jumps horses (races bookies bet to 15-20% overounds) and just by shopping via oddschecker I get significantly better odds than at Betfair if you include the commission plus the fact that some of them offer the best odds guaranteed. Further the premium charge (20% of gross profits) is just blatantly wrong. How can anyone formulate a plan/strategy to succeed when they could be taxed a further 20% on top of taking the initial risk - it's just plain greedy and criminal.
For many years Betfair has subsidised the trader by means of penalising the straight bettor. Thankfully Matchbook have had the sense to address the situation and not follow a commission plan which is just wrong. I hope matchbook enters the UK horse market at which point your layers will jump ship faster than you can imagine. Betdaq (clueless as ever) have missed opportunities on several occassions to become a credible alternative and probably will always fail but Betfair can't expect they can get away with the current structure plus premium charge without competition for much longer.
Your argument that Betfair is a necessity, is largely false and whilst I do have an account it represents less than 5% of my annual turnover which is down from over 35% of total 4 or 5 yeras ago.
I loved what Betfair stood for in the early days but frankly now it really isn't an option unless you are a trader, completely price insensitive or have fallen for the 20% better odds false hype.
I bet UK jumps horses (races bookies bet to 15-20% overounds) and just by shopping via oddschecker I get significantly better odds than at Betfair if you include the commission plus the fact that some of them offer the best odds guaranteed. Further the premium charge (20% of gross profits) is just blatantly wrong. How can anyone formulate a plan/strategy to succeed when they could be taxed a further 20% on top of taking the initial risk - it's just plain greedy and criminal.
For many years Betfair has subsidised the trader by means of penalising the straight bettor. Thankfully Matchbook have had the sense to address the situation and not follow a commission plan which is just wrong. I hope matchbook enters the UK horse market at which point your layers will jump ship faster than you can imagine. Betdaq (clueless as ever) have missed opportunities on several occassions to become a credible alternative and probably will always fail but Betfair can't expect they can get away with the current structure plus premium charge without competition for much longer.
Your argument that Betfair is a necessity, is largely false and whilst I do have an account it represents less than 5% of my annual turnover which is down from over 35% of total 4 or 5 yeras ago.
Matchbook vs. Betfair.
Hi valueman:
First, your comment about being "greedy and criminal" is harsh. Betfair is a business, not a charity as some people would like to think.
BTW, I also don't think that Bookies' right to close accounts of winning bettors is greedy and criminal. Since Betfair don't care who wins or loses, we Welcome winning bettors unlike the bookies.
Please don't scare anyone off with the PC. I honestly don't have the energy anymore, but I will still try to explain 1 MORE TIME! The premium charge affects 0.5% of our customers. They are traders making millions off of Betfair and cost us money. Do you honestly believe that these folks making say 1,000,000 a year have now left us because they are ONLy making 800k a year from gambling?
(Here's an example of a canadian customer who trades US Sports and golf on Betfair)
www.bettingadvantage.com (btw, his strategy hasn't changed - he's still making $$$$, unlike bookmakers, exchanges give folks the opportunity to make money off of others)
Now, please have a good look at our annual report. www.corporate.betfair.com. (#1 in the world for revenue GROWTH for internet companies bringing in over 500 Million - that includes Google, Yahoo, Amazon)
Matchbook vs. Betfair
Betfair is in-play on every game + every market which would allow you more flexibility to trade OUT of some of your Betfair, Matchbook or Pinny positions and guarantee a profit.
In-play, Matchbook's liquidity is obviously proprietary (Matchbook is seeding their own markets and you are betting against Matchbook oddsmakers). No silly odds, no depth, just a market at a set percentage all the way through. Which is fine for your simple $20 player who only bets to win, but it's no good for anyone who wants to pit his wits against other bettors around the world (some who know nothing about US sports) and get matched at silly odds. NFL is one of the best sports for getting short odds turned over. Last year, we had plenty of 1.02, 1.05 and 1.08 beaten on Sunday in-play.
<o
> </o>
The smarter players will always want to beat the juice by letting the squares bet in play with them.
I'm also not sure how much money I would trust being in Matchbook account at any one time! It's a Risk. Having money in Betfair isn't.
You're a UK horsejumps player and you have a Betfair account. I think you would agree that you would be insane not to have one. So that's all I was saying up there. Not sure why that's so hard to understand. But I think you get that...re-reading your final comment.
(Finally, and I may be completely wrong about this but I seriously hope that readers aren't naive enough to think that some companies may have some folks on here that instead of paying to advertise, take the cheaper route and simply post negative comments about their competitors.)
Thanks,
rob
Hi valueman:
First, your comment about being "greedy and criminal" is harsh. Betfair is a business, not a charity as some people would like to think.
BTW, I also don't think that Bookies' right to close accounts of winning bettors is greedy and criminal. Since Betfair don't care who wins or loses, we Welcome winning bettors unlike the bookies.
Please don't scare anyone off with the PC. I honestly don't have the energy anymore, but I will still try to explain 1 MORE TIME! The premium charge affects 0.5% of our customers. They are traders making millions off of Betfair and cost us money. Do you honestly believe that these folks making say 1,000,000 a year have now left us because they are ONLy making 800k a year from gambling?
(Here's an example of a canadian customer who trades US Sports and golf on Betfair)
www.bettingadvantage.com (btw, his strategy hasn't changed - he's still making $$$$, unlike bookmakers, exchanges give folks the opportunity to make money off of others)
Now, please have a good look at our annual report. www.corporate.betfair.com. (#1 in the world for revenue GROWTH for internet companies bringing in over 500 Million - that includes Google, Yahoo, Amazon)
Matchbook vs. Betfair
Betfair is in-play on every game + every market which would allow you more flexibility to trade OUT of some of your Betfair, Matchbook or Pinny positions and guarantee a profit.
In-play, Matchbook's liquidity is obviously proprietary (Matchbook is seeding their own markets and you are betting against Matchbook oddsmakers). No silly odds, no depth, just a market at a set percentage all the way through. Which is fine for your simple $20 player who only bets to win, but it's no good for anyone who wants to pit his wits against other bettors around the world (some who know nothing about US sports) and get matched at silly odds. NFL is one of the best sports for getting short odds turned over. Last year, we had plenty of 1.02, 1.05 and 1.08 beaten on Sunday in-play.
<o
> </o>The smarter players will always want to beat the juice by letting the squares bet in play with them.
I'm also not sure how much money I would trust being in Matchbook account at any one time! It's a Risk. Having money in Betfair isn't.
You're a UK horsejumps player and you have a Betfair account. I think you would agree that you would be insane not to have one. So that's all I was saying up there. Not sure why that's so hard to understand. But I think you get that...re-reading your final comment.
(Finally, and I may be completely wrong about this but I seriously hope that readers aren't naive enough to think that some companies may have some folks on here that instead of paying to advertise, take the cheaper route and simply post negative comments about their competitors.)
Thanks,
rob
Rob
Firstly, I have no association with Matchbook - in fact I don't even have an account there as they don't bet on what interests me.
Next, your point that Betfair doesn't care who wins or loses is partly true but partly false also in that Betfair doesn't like people who win "too quickly" ie: without paying enough commission as they don't like people taking money out of the system from punters who will regurgitate it round and round generating betfair more commission long term. I have no problem with that on the whole and that the traders who drain the system should pay more but your dispersion that PC (Premium Charge) only affects those who make millions is also false. I have a good friend who also bets horses (does not trade) and probably bets 5-10 times a day for 6 months a year. He makes around 20k a year on Betfair and he gets charged PC. How is he a strain on the system? How is it fair he should be paying an extra 2-4K a year from his profits?
Your argument of Matchbook Vs Betfair that Betfair is in play every game and every market confirms my initial point that Betfair is for Traders and this category has been subsidised by the staright bettors for many many years. The commission structure at Matchbook is a fairer system as it does not discriminate in this way. eg I could do a 100 pound bet on a 5/1 in a race and pay 25 pounds commission whereas a trader could do 20 hundred pound bets in the race and pay 2 pounds in commission - is that fair?
The argument there is no silly money on Matchbook versus Betfair is largely a red herring also in that any "silly" money is gobbled up by the traders with their "bots" anyhow so that is hardly an advantage to the average bettor.
I would agree with you in principle that Betfair is safer than Matchbook. I am not pro Matchbook in any way - I just love their commission structure and think its the right way to go about things. If Betfair, Betdaq offered it or Matchbook went into UK horses I would send all my business there - that's all I am saying.
I do have an account with Betfair but year on year as the commission structures have changed meaning my commission level stays higher and higher the volume i send to Betfair is less than 15% of what it once was and the fact that Betfair horse prices are a lot sharper than at the Bookies makes it no big deal if I didn't have an account there at all so its not insane in the slightest. In fact I make about 18% to stake with the bets I place with the bookies and lose 0.5% on the bets I do at Betfair. This tells me that for Horse racing the Betfair odds are much harder to beat. Yes, I do have the problems of restricted, closed accounts at the Bookies but do find means of getting round this but Betfair's system is such that unless i change my way of betting to become a trader then I'd never make a profit there under current commission structure even though a person who makes 15%+ profit to stake a year overall "SHOULD" be able to beat Betfair given its supposed to offer best odds etc.
I, in my initial response stated that Betfairs profits were not excessive given their turnover. I am just stating that the commission structure that Betfair operates favors Traders and penalises Straight Bettors and a more consistent and fairer system is used at Matchbook. The fact that Betfair is an advertiser here does not mean that it can just go ahead and generate its own propaganda and rubbish balanced view of someone who has bet with all forms of companies for 20+ years and has been with Betfair since 2000. If that is not ok then there is little point in having a forum.
Lastly I am not anti Betfair, just I am sad to see the way it has gone since 2000 (i remember the death of the traditional bookmaker photos in the papers etc) from being the Ryan Air of the betting industry to being just another corporate. If Betfair were to change its commission structure to that of Matchbooks I'd be the first to commend you on seeing the light and treating everyone more equitably.
Firstly, I have no association with Matchbook - in fact I don't even have an account there as they don't bet on what interests me.
Next, your point that Betfair doesn't care who wins or loses is partly true but partly false also in that Betfair doesn't like people who win "too quickly" ie: without paying enough commission as they don't like people taking money out of the system from punters who will regurgitate it round and round generating betfair more commission long term. I have no problem with that on the whole and that the traders who drain the system should pay more but your dispersion that PC (Premium Charge) only affects those who make millions is also false. I have a good friend who also bets horses (does not trade) and probably bets 5-10 times a day for 6 months a year. He makes around 20k a year on Betfair and he gets charged PC. How is he a strain on the system? How is it fair he should be paying an extra 2-4K a year from his profits?
Your argument of Matchbook Vs Betfair that Betfair is in play every game and every market confirms my initial point that Betfair is for Traders and this category has been subsidised by the staright bettors for many many years. The commission structure at Matchbook is a fairer system as it does not discriminate in this way. eg I could do a 100 pound bet on a 5/1 in a race and pay 25 pounds commission whereas a trader could do 20 hundred pound bets in the race and pay 2 pounds in commission - is that fair?
The argument there is no silly money on Matchbook versus Betfair is largely a red herring also in that any "silly" money is gobbled up by the traders with their "bots" anyhow so that is hardly an advantage to the average bettor.
I would agree with you in principle that Betfair is safer than Matchbook. I am not pro Matchbook in any way - I just love their commission structure and think its the right way to go about things. If Betfair, Betdaq offered it or Matchbook went into UK horses I would send all my business there - that's all I am saying.
I do have an account with Betfair but year on year as the commission structures have changed meaning my commission level stays higher and higher the volume i send to Betfair is less than 15% of what it once was and the fact that Betfair horse prices are a lot sharper than at the Bookies makes it no big deal if I didn't have an account there at all so its not insane in the slightest. In fact I make about 18% to stake with the bets I place with the bookies and lose 0.5% on the bets I do at Betfair. This tells me that for Horse racing the Betfair odds are much harder to beat. Yes, I do have the problems of restricted, closed accounts at the Bookies but do find means of getting round this but Betfair's system is such that unless i change my way of betting to become a trader then I'd never make a profit there under current commission structure even though a person who makes 15%+ profit to stake a year overall "SHOULD" be able to beat Betfair given its supposed to offer best odds etc.
I, in my initial response stated that Betfairs profits were not excessive given their turnover. I am just stating that the commission structure that Betfair operates favors Traders and penalises Straight Bettors and a more consistent and fairer system is used at Matchbook. The fact that Betfair is an advertiser here does not mean that it can just go ahead and generate its own propaganda and rubbish balanced view of someone who has bet with all forms of companies for 20+ years and has been with Betfair since 2000. If that is not ok then there is little point in having a forum.
Lastly I am not anti Betfair, just I am sad to see the way it has gone since 2000 (i remember the death of the traditional bookmaker photos in the papers etc) from being the Ryan Air of the betting industry to being just another corporate. If Betfair were to change its commission structure to that of Matchbooks I'd be the first to commend you on seeing the light and treating everyone more equitably.
Thanks for your response and the discussion. Some fair points taken. Some points I still need to disagree with.
All in all, I don't think anybody can ever question our transparency, the unique way we conduct our business and (in my opinion) the fair treatment of our players. I certainly disagree with the 'Robin Hood'- like picture you are painting of Matchbook. Again, in my opinion taking square money is fair. It's their business. We've taken another route.
I'm sorry that your friend is making 20k a year gambling with us for his little time invested and then is asked to pay a small amount. You can NEVER please everyone and as we always do, we try to be fair. I'd love to take a vote to find out how many folks on here would GLADLY accept that particular scenario versus the one they go through year after year with their bookmaker. If your friend can make that type of money someplace else, then he should try.
Again, as you point out, you have a Betfair account...IMO, I think Canadians should at least try Betfair, learn how to use it, then decide for themself if they would like to stay or not. Make sense?
If they understand what it's all about and they still have no use for Betfair. Fair enough.
I'll have an oddschecker on here in a couple of weeks and folks can decide for themselves.
Thanks,
Rob
All in all, I don't think anybody can ever question our transparency, the unique way we conduct our business and (in my opinion) the fair treatment of our players. I certainly disagree with the 'Robin Hood'- like picture you are painting of Matchbook. Again, in my opinion taking square money is fair. It's their business. We've taken another route.
I'm sorry that your friend is making 20k a year gambling with us for his little time invested and then is asked to pay a small amount. You can NEVER please everyone and as we always do, we try to be fair. I'd love to take a vote to find out how many folks on here would GLADLY accept that particular scenario versus the one they go through year after year with their bookmaker. If your friend can make that type of money someplace else, then he should try.
Again, as you point out, you have a Betfair account...IMO, I think Canadians should at least try Betfair, learn how to use it, then decide for themself if they would like to stay or not. Make sense?
If they understand what it's all about and they still have no use for Betfair. Fair enough.
I'll have an oddschecker on here in a couple of weeks and folks can decide for themselves.
Thanks,
Rob
Rob
I can question transparency and fairness very easily - change of commission point structure, introduction of premium charge and using past history in that calculation and change of matching logic to name but a few.
Matchbook is no Robin Hood but they have introduced a commission structure that makes them extremely competitive in the North American market place where the likes of Pinny set the standard. The Betfair structure is just not competitive enough in this market place for straight bettors. For people whose predominant objective is to trade I would agree with you Betfair could be a useful option on occasion but they'd have to do the math and compare with Matchbook as it would still be close and if they were the "price maker" there they'd still be well ahead of Betfair.
As for my friend he is a professional devoting 12+ hours a day during the 6 months he bets but he is a straight bettor and he only wins with Betfair because of his "skill" in running on horses. He makes many times what he does at Betfair pre-race at the Bookies. I think he is entitled for his years of development of his skill to profit from it without having to pay a 20% tax. I'd understand the charge if he were putting hundreds and thousands of orders on the site causing strain to the system but he bets like an ordinary bettor but because he is "very good" at what he does even if it is small fry compared to the big traders/bot users he gets charged PC.
As for Canadians as the target market, there are still those stuck in the scam of sportsaction or whatever the lottery corps call it in various states and for those people Betfair would be like a dream. For those with Pinny and or Matchbook accounts I really can't see the benefit unless they are looking to trade in which case I'd agree with you Betfair is certainly worth a look. For straight bettors there are lower price options for Canadians.
As for Canadians want to bet on:
Hockey or "ice hockey" as Betfair likes to call it - Betfair is weak and in running is a joke. further Betfair is 3 option result when Canadians want a 2 result option.
CFL - Betfair is a joke again.
NFL - Betfair is worth looking at if you want to trade - handicaps may not be game time line.
NBA - Betfair not really that competitive compared to Matchbook or Pinny.
MLB - Betfair can't compete with low juice available. Again worth a look if trading is your game.
College - Betfair = lol
Tennis/Soccer - Betfair is very good especially in running.
So really is Betfair offering anything amazing? Other than trading in and out which may be of interest to some Canadians what else do they offer that is lower cost than what is out there?
On the security of funds viewpoint I'd say Betfair is very safe not that I've heard bad things about Pinny or Matchbook but inherently UK is safer and Betfair especially.
If Betfair were to change its commission structure the arguments could be different. Summing up I'd describe Betfair as a safe medium cost alternative with some trading advantages for the Canadian market. Content wise it is far from the best out there.
ps - if you are Canadian Territory Manager for Betfair I'd want a consultancy fee for using my info.
copyright!
I can question transparency and fairness very easily - change of commission point structure, introduction of premium charge and using past history in that calculation and change of matching logic to name but a few.
Matchbook is no Robin Hood but they have introduced a commission structure that makes them extremely competitive in the North American market place where the likes of Pinny set the standard. The Betfair structure is just not competitive enough in this market place for straight bettors. For people whose predominant objective is to trade I would agree with you Betfair could be a useful option on occasion but they'd have to do the math and compare with Matchbook as it would still be close and if they were the "price maker" there they'd still be well ahead of Betfair.
As for my friend he is a professional devoting 12+ hours a day during the 6 months he bets but he is a straight bettor and he only wins with Betfair because of his "skill" in running on horses. He makes many times what he does at Betfair pre-race at the Bookies. I think he is entitled for his years of development of his skill to profit from it without having to pay a 20% tax. I'd understand the charge if he were putting hundreds and thousands of orders on the site causing strain to the system but he bets like an ordinary bettor but because he is "very good" at what he does even if it is small fry compared to the big traders/bot users he gets charged PC.
As for Canadians as the target market, there are still those stuck in the scam of sportsaction or whatever the lottery corps call it in various states and for those people Betfair would be like a dream. For those with Pinny and or Matchbook accounts I really can't see the benefit unless they are looking to trade in which case I'd agree with you Betfair is certainly worth a look. For straight bettors there are lower price options for Canadians.
As for Canadians want to bet on:
Hockey or "ice hockey" as Betfair likes to call it - Betfair is weak and in running is a joke. further Betfair is 3 option result when Canadians want a 2 result option.
CFL - Betfair is a joke again.
NFL - Betfair is worth looking at if you want to trade - handicaps may not be game time line.
NBA - Betfair not really that competitive compared to Matchbook or Pinny.
MLB - Betfair can't compete with low juice available. Again worth a look if trading is your game.
College - Betfair = lol
Tennis/Soccer - Betfair is very good especially in running.
So really is Betfair offering anything amazing? Other than trading in and out which may be of interest to some Canadians what else do they offer that is lower cost than what is out there?
On the security of funds viewpoint I'd say Betfair is very safe not that I've heard bad things about Pinny or Matchbook but inherently UK is safer and Betfair especially.
If Betfair were to change its commission structure the arguments could be different. Summing up I'd describe Betfair as a safe medium cost alternative with some trading advantages for the Canadian market. Content wise it is far from the best out there.
ps - if you are Canadian Territory Manager for Betfair I'd want a consultancy fee for using my info.
copyright!
Some fair points...furthermore, please don't get upset it's only a discussion forum and we all have an opinion.
I'm not sure you are better placed to comment on Canadian sports betting than me, especially if you bet UK jumps. Nobody here has ever heard of Cheltenham or the Grand National!
I still disagree with alot of your points...for example your point below simply isn't true.
Hockey or "ice hockey" as Betfair likes to call it - Betfair is weak and in running is a joke. further Betfair is 3 option result when Canadians want a 2 result option.
We have all of the same NHL markets as everybody else with competitive odds. All on tsn's odds comparison page, last year. The WDW market allows people to bet against a team and win with the tie. Can't do that at Pinny or Matchbook btw. If more people knew about it, it would become a very atractive market for Canadians since it's like a half puck line with a draw.
Anyway, you can have the last word. Again, thanks for your opinion as a UK steeplechase punter - with an active Betfair account.
The Betfair forum is also great for opinions btw. http://forum.betfair.com.
In fact, that's as transparent as it gets...any other bookie or exchange forums out there that you know of?
thanks,
I'm not sure you are better placed to comment on Canadian sports betting than me, especially if you bet UK jumps. Nobody here has ever heard of Cheltenham or the Grand National!
I still disagree with alot of your points...for example your point below simply isn't true.
Hockey or "ice hockey" as Betfair likes to call it - Betfair is weak and in running is a joke. further Betfair is 3 option result when Canadians want a 2 result option.
We have all of the same NHL markets as everybody else with competitive odds. All on tsn's odds comparison page, last year. The WDW market allows people to bet against a team and win with the tie. Can't do that at Pinny or Matchbook btw. If more people knew about it, it would become a very atractive market for Canadians since it's like a half puck line with a draw.
Anyway, you can have the last word. Again, thanks for your opinion as a UK steeplechase punter - with an active Betfair account.
The Betfair forum is also great for opinions btw. http://forum.betfair.com.
In fact, that's as transparent as it gets...any other bookie or exchange forums out there that you know of?
thanks,
Forgive me if you are a Canadian who has been sports betting for numerous years as then you probably know Canadian Sports better than me but for someone coming from a UK background and analysing the Canadian market I doubt there is much difference in our knowledge base. I am from the UK and have lived in Canada for numerous years and sports betting has always been my life so it wasn't hard for me to see the Canadian perspective when I came here.
Yes, I bet UK jumps as that is the niche i know I can make money on but that doesn't mean i don't understand US sports - after all I have no choice without SKY!
Your example regarding Hockey saying people can effectively bet moneyline by betting against a team is correct but it presumes a level of betting savvy that frankly the majority of Canadians don't have. Education of Canadians will be a major hurdle given the current format. I don't know the proportion of traders versus straight bettors in the Canadian market but I'd venture to say it would be pretty small so I'm not sure Betfair will offer that much to a $20 or $50 bettor who wants to bet a team to win - Matchbook and Pinny will be lower cost.
I do wish you luck cracking the Canadian market. It is worthwhile but probably only a trial for the US market which is what I am sure Betfair is eyeing given the possible changes over there.
Betfair was initially founded on the principle of being the best value and at the time shook up the traditional bookmaking world. Success was a given as the product WAS the best value out there (especially UK market). Player acquisition was dirt cheap as word of mouth, commentary in press etc meant bettors joined Betfair in their droves. Betfair faces a different problem for the Canadian market as the product is not the best and value is not the best. How easy will it be to sell over here? Further, restrictions on marketing media could mean cost of player acquisition is high.
As I said I really wish you luck but its going to be tough. Betfair has the big plus of security but really the substance of the deal for the customer needs to be better and more suited to their mentality and player type. That is why I suggest acommission structure the same as Matchbook. Put it this way if I were a Canadian sports bettor and Betfair and Matchbook offered the same odds, same commissions etc i'd choose Betfair all day long. I'm just not sure the extra cost of Betfair and slightly foreign format make it worthwhile at present and that will be your difficulty.
All the best
Yes, I bet UK jumps as that is the niche i know I can make money on but that doesn't mean i don't understand US sports - after all I have no choice without SKY!
Your example regarding Hockey saying people can effectively bet moneyline by betting against a team is correct but it presumes a level of betting savvy that frankly the majority of Canadians don't have. Education of Canadians will be a major hurdle given the current format. I don't know the proportion of traders versus straight bettors in the Canadian market but I'd venture to say it would be pretty small so I'm not sure Betfair will offer that much to a $20 or $50 bettor who wants to bet a team to win - Matchbook and Pinny will be lower cost.
I do wish you luck cracking the Canadian market. It is worthwhile but probably only a trial for the US market which is what I am sure Betfair is eyeing given the possible changes over there.
Betfair was initially founded on the principle of being the best value and at the time shook up the traditional bookmaking world. Success was a given as the product WAS the best value out there (especially UK market). Player acquisition was dirt cheap as word of mouth, commentary in press etc meant bettors joined Betfair in their droves. Betfair faces a different problem for the Canadian market as the product is not the best and value is not the best. How easy will it be to sell over here? Further, restrictions on marketing media could mean cost of player acquisition is high.
As I said I really wish you luck but its going to be tough. Betfair has the big plus of security but really the substance of the deal for the customer needs to be better and more suited to their mentality and player type. That is why I suggest acommission structure the same as Matchbook. Put it this way if I were a Canadian sports bettor and Betfair and Matchbook offered the same odds, same commissions etc i'd choose Betfair all day long. I'm just not sure the extra cost of Betfair and slightly foreign format make it worthwhile at present and that will be your difficulty.
All the best
