Evil Rich People

Search

Member
Joined
Jan 21, 2007
Messages
1,450
Tokens
President Obama has laid out the most ambitious and expensive domestic agenda since LBJ, and now all he has to do is figure out how to pay for it. On Tuesday, he left the impression that we need merely end "tax breaks for the wealthiest 2% of Americans," and he promised that households earning less than $250,000 won't see their taxes increased by "one single dime."
OB-DF052_oj_1to_E_20090225230014.jpg
<CITE>AP</CITE>


This is going to be some trick. Even the most basic inspection of the IRS income tax statistics shows that raising taxes on the salaries, dividends and capital gains of those making more than $250,000 can't possibly raise enough revenue to fund Mr. Obama's new spending ambitions.
Consider the IRS data for 2006, the most recent year that such tax data are available and a good year for the economy and "the wealthiest 2%." Roughly 3.8 million filers had adjusted gross incomes above $200,000 in 2006. (That's about 7% of all returns; the data aren't broken down at the $250,000 point.) These people paid about $522 billion in income taxes, or roughly 62% of all federal individual income receipts. The richest 1% -- about 1.65 million filers making above $388,806 -- paid some $408 billion, or 39.9% of all income tax revenues, while earning about 22% of all reported U.S. income.
Note that federal income taxes are already "progressive" with a 35% top marginal rate, and that Mr. Obama is (so far) proposing to raise it only to 39.6%, plus another two percentage points in hidden deduction phase-outs. He'd also raise capital gains and dividend rates, but those both yield far less revenue than the income tax. These combined increases won't come close to raising the hundreds of billions of dollars in revenue that Mr. Obama is going to need.
The Opinion Journal Widget

Download Opinion Journal's widget and link to the most important editorials and op-eds of the day from your blog or Web page.


But let's not stop at a 42% top rate; as a thought experiment, let's go all the way. A tax policy that confiscated 100% of the taxable income of everyone in America earning over $500,000 in 2006 would only have given Congress an extra $1.3 trillion in revenue. That's less than half the 2006 federal budget of $2.7 trillion and looks tiny compared to the more than $4 trillion Congress will spend in fiscal 2010. Even taking every taxable "dime" of everyone earning more than $75,000 in 2006 would have barely yielded enough to cover that $4 trillion.
Fast forward to this year (and 2010) when the Wall Street meltdown and recession are going to mean far few taxpayers earning more than $500,000. Profits are plunging, businesses are cutting or eliminating dividends, hedge funds are rolling up, and, most of all, capital nationwide is on strike. Raising taxes now will thus yield far less revenue than it would have in 2006.
Mr. Obama is of course counting on an economic recovery. And he's also assuming along with the new liberal economic consensus that taxes don't matter to growth or job creation. The truth, though, is that they do. Small- and medium-sized businesses are the nation's primary employers, and lower individual tax rates have induced thousands of them to shift from filing under the corporate tax system to the individual system, often as limited liability companies or Subchapter S corporations. The Tax Foundation calculates that merely restoring the higher, Clinton-era tax rates on the top two brackets would hit 45% to 55% of small-business income, depending on how inclusively "small business" is defined. These owners will find a way to declare less taxable income.
The bottom line is that Mr. Obama is selling the country on a 2% illusion. Unwinding the U.S. commitment in Iraq and allowing the Bush tax cuts to expire can't possibly pay for his agenda. Taxes on the not-so-rich will need to rise as well.
On that point, by the way, it's unclear why Mr. Obama thinks his climate-change scheme won't hit all Americans with higher taxes. Selling the right to emit greenhouse gases amounts to a steep new tax on most types of energy and, therefore, on all Americans who use energy. There's a reason that Charlie Rangel's Ways and Means panel, which writes tax law, is holding hearings this week on cap-and-trade regulation.
Mr. Obama is very good at portraying his agenda as nothing more than center-left pragmatism. But pragmatists don't ignore the data. And the reality is that the only way to pay for Mr. Obama's ambitions is to reach ever deeper into the pockets of the American middle class.
 

New member
Joined
Nov 8, 2006
Messages
9,491
Tokens
What income level do you (or the author of this) consider "middle class"?
 

Member
Joined
Jan 21, 2007
Messages
1,450
Tokens
Good question, and one I wish Prez Bo would address as well. Middle Class in NYC is somone making $100K, middle class in my hometown is $30-35K. So to answer your question I guess it matters where you live and how much you make not just how much you make. Lets be honest $100K in NYC isn't going to get you very far.
 

New member
Joined
Jul 21, 2006
Messages
12,563
Tokens
i dont have a problem with being taxed if i make 250k + because i dont make 250k plus. id probably be a little pissed if i did but since i dont why would i care. as long as it doesnt impact me, i could care less. i only look out for people around me, and myself. for all i care they could tax 50-60 percent on those 250k people. as long as im fine, friends family girlfriend, etc then do what you see fit to get it going as long as it doesnt imapct me.
 

New member
Joined
Nov 8, 2006
Messages
9,491
Tokens
Good question, and one I wish Prez Bo would address as well. Middle Class in NYC is somone making $100K, middle class in my hometown is $30-35K. So to answer your question I guess it matters where you live and how much you make not just how much you make. Lets be honest $100K in NYC isn't going to get you very far.

Hard to make a case for someone in the US, who would have to spend all of their yearly income to buy a car, being middle class.
 

Member
Joined
Jan 21, 2007
Messages
1,450
Tokens
not when you can buy a house for under 100K. Got a friend who has a mortgage payment of $480.
 

Member
Joined
Jan 21, 2007
Messages
1,450
Tokens
i dont have a problem with being taxed if i make 250k + because i dont make 250k plus. id probably be a little pissed if i did but since i dont why would i care. as long as it doesnt impact me, i could care less. i only look out for people around me, and myself. for all i care they could tax 50-60 percent on those 250k people. as long as im fine, friends family girlfriend, etc then do what you see fit to get it going as long as it doesnt imapct me.


Taxes are a must, but to justify taking almost half of someone's stuff is crazy. 42% is insulting. Remember if you get a bonus its taxed at a even higher percentage. I got a 8K bonus for the 4th qt in '08. The imperial govt took all but $4200. Almost 50%. GTC I hope you do get to a point in your life where you make over $250K, have a couple of kids, nice house and then have Prez Bo come by stick out his hand and say gimme.
 

RDWHAHB
Joined
Oct 19, 2008
Messages
1,629
Tokens
Let's tell more of the story, shall we? In addition to taxing the highest income earners, the adminsitration "foresees increasing taxes on the wealthiest Americans and using revenue from a new program: selling carbon credits to manufacturers as part of a cap-and-trade plan meant to slow climate change. Further savings would come from such items as a proposal to phase out government payments to crop producers making more than $500,000. Additional revenues are posited from a tightening of tax-code enforcement... and would raise $353.5 billion over 10 years by repealing credits and reductions for oil and gas companies. The budget projects $316 billion in savings over 10 years from increasing efficiency and competitive bidding in Medicare and Medicaid programs....and slightly lower spending on the Iraq and Afghanistan wars to $130 billion in the 2010 fiscal year, then a much larger drop beginning in fiscal 2011, when Mr. Obama wants to have combat forces out of Iraq."

And let's stop perpetuating the myth that President Obama is raising taxes. He's simply undoing the damaging tax cuts pushed by Shrub.
 

Member
Joined
Jan 21, 2007
Messages
1,450
Tokens
$130 billion in 2010??? Pentagon has already come out (wednesday) and said they will have requests of $130 billion (supplemental) for the war in Iraq in 2010......Selling carbon credits=taxation......Budget projections aren't worth the paper they are written on. Budget projections..LOL

Plus companies don't pay taxes, they simply pass that on to the consumer.
 

New member
Joined
Jul 21, 2006
Messages
12,563
Tokens
Taxes are a must, but to justify taking almost half of someone's stuff is crazy. 42% is insulting. Remember if you get a bonus its taxed at a even higher percentage. I got a 8K bonus for the 4th qt in '08. The imperial govt took all but $4200. Almost 50%. GTC I hope you do get to a point in your life where you make over $250K, have a couple of kids, nice house and then have Prez Bo come by stick out his hand and say gimme.

georgia boy, i said i dont care because i dont make 250k and neither does anyone else in my immediate circle. if we did, i agree, i'd be pissed and id probably move. but since i dont why would i care?
 

Member
Joined
Jan 21, 2007
Messages
1,450
Tokens
Move where? If you think that your taxes aren't going up I suggest you take a hard look at what Prez BO is proposing and just taxing the 2% isn't going to cut it. So when he says your "income taxes" may not go up (I'll believe it when I see it) he maybe telling the truth but we pay alot more in taxes than just 'income taxes'.
 

New member
Joined
Nov 8, 2006
Messages
9,491
Tokens
but we pay a lot more in taxes than just 'income taxes'.

True that!

In Texas we pay one of the nations highest property tax. We pay one of the highest rates for home insurance. We pay a higher electrical rate than any of our neighboring states.

We have had a Republican Governor and a republican congress for the last eight years.
 

New member
Joined
Nov 8, 2006
Messages
9,491
Tokens
Got sales tax. Fortunately groceries are not taxed like in your neighboring Alabama. Talk about a disproportionate tax.
 

Life's a bitch, then you die!
Joined
Jul 10, 2007
Messages
28,910
Tokens
$130 billion in 2010??? Pentagon has already come out (wednesday) and said they will have requests of $130 billion (supplemental) for the war in Iraq in 2010......Selling carbon credits=taxation......Budget projections aren't worth the paper they are written on. Budget projections..LOL

Plus companies don't pay taxes, they simply pass that on to the consumer.

How right you are, dare I say trickle down taxation? This is where I would normally give you a thumbs up sign, but alas I cannot. Maybe tomorrow.
 

New member
Joined
Sep 21, 2004
Messages
1,799
Tokens
There's a bit of number fudging going on here. Actually enforcing the tax laws that are on the books now properly would work too besides having to raise taxes.

"Plus companies don't pay taxes, they simply pass that on to the consumer."

And don't forget too, some companies don't pay taxes...literally.
 

Pro Handi-Craper My Picks are the shit
Joined
Sep 21, 2004
Messages
4,098
Tokens
And it makes you think why does Congressmen only make $194,000 a year??? So they are under the $250,000 marker and if they make more doing their real job they just cheat on their taxes and write off stuff the tax payers paid for.
 

New member
Joined
Nov 16, 2006
Messages
126
Tokens
Everyone should pay the same percentage. That would be fair.

40% is crazy and wrong. Why do we want to punish people for being successful?
 

NES

Member
Joined
May 16, 2006
Messages
17,025
Tokens
Good question, and one I wish Prez Bo would address as well. Middle Class in NYC is somone making $100K, middle class in my hometown is $30-35K. So to answer your question I guess it matters where you live and how much you make not just how much you make. Lets be honest $100K in NYC isn't going to get you very far.

I bet you can get a lot of boiled peanuts in Cummings with that kind of cash.
 

Forum statistics

Threads
1,119,983
Messages
13,575,755
Members
100,889
Latest member
junkerb
The RX is the sports betting industry's leading information portal for bonuses, picks, and sportsbook reviews. Find the best deals offered by a sportsbook in your state and browse our free picks section.FacebookTwitterInstagramContact Usforum@therx.com