Ethical question for the board...

[OMNIVOROUS FROG]

I am really screwed with a real close friend, known for over 30 years. He is the same one I gave a $777. Xmas bonus to last Dec. I also shared some Pats to win it all, 3-1. So after it won, he knew I had TWolfs at 17-1 and he asked for some of it, I did not offer. He had been drinking. But I honored it. Problem is, I reward him for his assistance in Football, he does not work hoops. That sort of went against my grain, but it gets way worse. He knew I was heavy on Spurs, so we were both hoping that would be the Conf Final. DFish changed that in .4 seconds. So I covered my own ass best as I could, and heard nothing from him. I felt, hey he is an adult, he should be calling me. So now Lakers are giant faves. He called and asked for advice. I told him I already had bet some on Lakers to go all the way, and some on Lakers to win series. He decided to cover the 2 bucks I gave him with a Lakers future, who were -1.40 to win it all. So he asks to win a dime. Even offered to front the cash. No problem, I got it and covered with my own bank. Then it is Lakers/Motown. I am already in good shape with Motown 16.5-1, and bought more at 6-1. Did not hear a word from him. He lets his position ride. So I finally hear from him after game #2. Motown still +2.50 to win it all. Before seeing game #3, I thought Lakers would split next two. But Malone was hurt worse than I thought. He asked me what to do. I asked him why he did not call before series. He did not think Lakers would lose. He really did not want +2.50 so I said if he waited and Lakers split, it would bounce back to a higher price. Obviously horrible advice, especially since I passed on game 3 and bet the hell out of Motown game 4 and 5. So now he is into me $1600. Have not heard a word. This is a real stand up guy, extremely loyal. So far I have thought of several options.

He blew it, he pays up.

I made enough to cover it, forgive the debt.

Forgive the debt, with understanding he gets no Xmas bonus next two years.

Split the debt.

Here is the kicker. After I thought he may be sunk in game #3, and I was betting Motown to win in 5, I layed Motown to win it all, seperately -1.40 to win $1600. He does not know this...I am feeling bad karma all over this. I have made no decisions, and he is probably to ashamed to call. What would you do? Best Wishes...OF

 

[postaldoug]

OF: It sounds like you did nothing wrong, or deceptive, in fact the opposite !

Denying the bonus for 2 years seems to be a fair comprimise, more than fair really !

He doesn't have to pay now, friendship should remain intact. It's like you gave him this bonus early, although he's not entitled to it. It's a gift, not a right !

I don't know all the details, just wanted to bump your thread, as it got buried.

Doug

 

[oldmanTED]

OF:

If the friendship is more important to you then the money, do not mention the issues and see if he comes to you at some point. If he does, then you can work things out. If he does not, you then have the choice to either use it as a lesson as to the true nature of the individual and never upfront money again or decide whether this is the kind of person that is truly a friend regardless of the 30 years. My generosity has burnt me in the past and taught me some hard lessons about true friendship and to never a lender or borrower be. Remember, it's only money. Trust cannot be bought. Hope everything works out for you.

 

[rscl31]

In the end, i may not make him pay but not until he offers to pay. It was a bet that was made and especially between friends should it be honored. I do realize that money tends to 'float' between friends but he should at the least have called you and even if he didn't have the money let you know when he gets it, it is coming to you.

 

[rscl31]

If he's known you for 30 years he really shouldn't be 'embarassed' about losing money. He should have come to you and let you know the deal.

Hope everything works out for the best.

 

[ChuckSims]

I do'nt know why you call this an ethical question. He owes you $1600 and is now blowing you off. This is NOT a "close" friend. I have one of these "close" friends myself. When he owes me $ from gambling losses I rarely hear from him. When he wins he is always calling me to tell me what a great friend I am. And then shows up at my doorstep telling me how desperate he needs his winnings. Try not to get too much closer to this friend or else he may get further in debt with you.

 

[WEEKENDALKI]

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Chuck Sims:
I do'nt know why you call this an ethical question. He owes you $1600 and is now blowing you off. This is NOT a "close" friend. I have one of these "close" friends myself. When he owes me $ from gambling losses I rarely hear from him. When he wins he is always calling me to tell me what a great friend I am. And then shows up at my doorstep telling me how desperate he needs his winnings. Try not to get too much closer to this friend or else he may get further in debt with you.<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>
Chuck is right. A friend that shows zero gratitude and blows you off like that ain't no friend at all. He in my life would be dismissed.

 

[GREENHEAD]

OF, you write that he is a "real close freind", known for over 30 years.Sounds like he would be in your Wedding,if you got married tomorrow.Very simple answer.
1)Dont bring up the money again.
2)No more gambling relationship,until he comes clean.(and even then I would be skeptical)
Its never worth losing a real close freind!!!!!!

 

[JimFiestSux]

Chalk it up as an experience! I put a few bets in for a couple buddies I grew up with back in the early 80's. Well they were hot and I paid them over 5 dimes a piece, then they went cold and lost and payed until they lost 7 dimes each! Well then I couldn't find them! I GOT STUCK with the bill!! You are lucky that you don't owe anything from this loss! Friendships are important! Keep this friend and no more bets between the 2 of you! Chalk it up as a loss!

 

[appolo]

I have been in such a situation before but on a much larger scale. The amount is probaly an after thought, It is the principle of the matter. From reading many of your post I feel that you have a problem with people that don't play by what you consider to be the "rules" of conduct you yourself live by.(as do I). In my situation there wasn't a gambling debt but a loan to a relative for a down payment on his house. Though he managed to pay me back, 5 years late, It caused a strain on our relationship that I don't believe will ever be repaired. whatever choice you make on how to handle this I'm sure that there has been irrepairable damage done to a 30 year friendship. My main point I'm trying to convey to you is that you have done nothing wrong to deserve the guilt you may feel or the strain that will be a part of any further relationship you have with this person. I know from personal experience that I felt that I did something wrong to cause the awkwardness that we now have when we are around each other. As for your problem I feel that there is not much worse than A person not paying his gamling debts. I have learned to forgive the tardiness of the loan, but I'm sure I would be much less forgiving if it was a gambling debt. Thats just me though. I hope whatever way you decide to deal with this, that it is best for you!! GL and let us know how things worked out.

 

[wantitall4moi]

That is why you don't lend, borrow, or cover money for friends. There is always a conflict someweher.

I was an ethics minor in college. And from this story it doesn't sound like you guys are all that close, especially when it comes to money issues.

He didn't call until it looked very bad, nor did he offer any help in the other negative situations. You on the other hand must have had some experiences as you covered your own ass, maybe because you knew your friends M.O.?

This is a typical case of one guy having the money and the other guy looking to ride the convenience coattails and take some of the action knowing that he may or may not have to payy up. Or that one guy has the money and likes helping out his buddy who might not be so fortunate.

Because probably come Christmas time you will cave and he will get money anyways. After all that is 6 months away and a lot can happen. The sting of right now will definately wear off, and you will be in the spirit.

But the real "ethical" situation here stands in your final statement. Did you make that bet on Det to help him or to protect yourself in case he couldn't pay? You don't really explain it, all you say is "I thought he may have blown it..."

So it lies in your hands. Did you make the bet to protect him, or did you make the bet to protect you FROM his loss?

Ethics is pretty simple stuff, the problem is no one can tell you what is right and wrong, you have to know the reasoning yourself.

The irony is gamblers canm sometimes be the most "ethical" in some areas thanmost people. They could lie, cheat, scam old ladies out of S.S. checks, but if they lose a BET, they pay without hesitation.

SO you have to figure out why you made that bet. Was it for him, or for you? If it was for him, then figure out the balance and make him pay. If it was foryou, then it was yours, and make him pay whatheowes you. In any event, you have to make him pay.

 

[jwunderdog]

First question would be: Does he have the cash or is he in a tough financial situation and never should have placed those bets? If he is really a good friend he will explain the situation. If he is not a good friend he won't and will just continue to duck you, and for $1600 you got to find out who is not a close friend.

 

[OMNIVOROUS FROG]

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Greenhead:
OF, you write that he is a "real close freind", known for over 30 years.Sounds like he would be in your Wedding,if you got married tomorrow.Very simple answer.
1)Dont bring up the money again.
2)No more gambling relationship,until he comes clean.(and even then I would be skeptical)
Its never worth losing a real close freind!!!!!!<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>You are good, he was my best man. No word from him yet...OF

 

[TheGeneral+]

Who hasn't been ripped off by a close associate while being involved in gambling for any amount of time? Not all of course, but there are many stories. LIVE AND LEARN.

 

[OMNIVOROUS FROG]

All for moi. So it lies in your hands. Did you make the bet to protect him, or did you make the bet to protect you FROM his loss? To be honest, I can't answer that. I think a little bit of both. Ahh, what a freakin disaster...Best wishes...OF

 

[OMNIVOROUS FROG]

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by jwunderdog:
First question would be: Does he have the cash or is he in a tough financial situation and never should have placed those bets? If he is really a good friend he will explain the situation. If he is not a good friend he won't and will just continue to duck you, and for $1600 you got to find out who is not a close friend.<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>No, he has funds, we rocked in football. I know what it is, he is embarrassed. It is not a ripoff, he offered the cover money when he bet. I think DougJ. got it with the no Xmas bonus. Two years worth. This is a man who I have known since Jr. High. Went to his mom's funeral, was welcome in his paerents house my entire life. Would make special stop after fishing just to drop off fresh fish to his parents, for free. My friendship is way more important than money. It was bad karma to give him that bet in the first place. No more NBA futures for him. I allowed this to happen as I was focusing on myself being consistently profitable. I bet the Motown to cover the bet, because I thought he was screwed and I would have all the money back. He does not know that. It was to avoid a loss on a bad situation. It gave me the option of forgiving the debt. I will contact him for a sitdown this weekend. I know 100% he will bring the money. I will tell him I covered it. But I have to holdback Xmas bonus for two years, and no more futures on sports he does not work. I can't allow this to come between us, and will not turn my back on a friend. Done. Best wishes..OF

Thanks for responses everyone.

 

[GREENHEAD]

OF.its NOT a "freakin disaster" unless you let it become one.Try and think of the times he did come through for you.Theres even questions that you cant answer.
Go fishing today and think about game 5 bet with Shrink,that'll make you laugh for a couple hours.(Detroit -10 I love it)

 

[assassin]

OF,
My advise, don't mix business with pleasure.
That said, if you are attempting to mentor or school this gentelman, or just want to allow him along for the ride, make an informal partnership with him. Each contributes a portion of the funds, and you make the wagers, give him an accounting weekly, monthly, whatever, and split the profit or loss accrdingly. As he learns, you may want him to make "potential" wagers, subject to your review. Again, treat business as a business, and friends as friends.

That is why the gamling lily pads are only big enough for one frog, not 2.

later

 

[IDENTITY]

of - it's only 1600...let it die and do not be his friend anymore.

i got stiffed for 10k from a colleague, he quit, and i never heard from the guy again...

 

[PanchoSanza]

Solve your own problems froggy.