Does government spending actually make the economy grow faster? (fratfraud-o-nomics exposed as BS yet again)

[SheriffJoe]

http://therightscoop.com/does-government-spending-actually-make-the-economy-grow-faster/

This chart blows up the liberal argument that Federal spending helps the economy.

For decades, the Left argued that the more government spends, the faster the economy grows.

But looking back 25 years through 2012, one sees an amazing thing: The slower government spending rose (such as in the 1990s under Bill Clinton), the faster the economy grew, and when spending was stepped up under Bush, the Economy did not grow so fast.

In 2007 with the Democrats in control of both houses of Congress, spending took off even more and lo and behold the economy started going down hill.

The Democrats raised hell when spending in 2011-2012 did not hold up to (what was suppose to be one time emergency) spending levels of 2009 but if you look at the chart you see that as spending cooled off, economic growth started to rise again.

The chart stings even more for liberals when you consider that domestic spending (what liberals argue drives the economy best) took off in 2007 yet the economy kept getting worse and worse.

face)(*^%

 

[SheriffJoe]

Of course everyone understands that the more government interferes with the marketplace, the less room there is for growth...everyone except tenured silver pony tailed English profs and their gullible students living off Big Government cheese.

 

[SheriffJoe]

Pelosi: Unemployment Checks Fastest Way to Create Jobs

http://www.foxnews.com/politics/2010/07/01/pelosi-unemployment-checks-best-way-create-jobs/

face)(*^%

 

[Dave007inVegas]

:nohead: You are a glutton for punishment aren't you?

 

[akphidelt]

I'll take a logical fallacy for 1000 please.

 

[SheriffJoe]

:nohead: You are a glutton for punishment aren't you?

No way! This is fun!

And the most amusing part is I already know what the little manic welfare troll is going to say.

:nohead:

 

[Dave007inVegas]

No way! This is fun!

And the most amusing part is I already know what the little manic welfare troll is going to say.

:nohead:

For you maybe. For others it painful.

 

[akphidelt]

The point of economies is to grow. If an economy is growing sustainably with a certain level of government spending, then the government has no reason to increase spending. You are basically showing a chart that I would show, explaining how increasing spending is necessary when growth becomes slower. When people stop spending money, growth decreases... my theory and the majority of educated economists theory is that this is the time to increase government spending to fill the gap. That's why you will always see high government spending during times of low economic growth. It's just basic math.

And I'm not replying to Sheriff Joe to convince him, because he's already past brainwashed and he'll be retarded the rest of his life. But he does bring up some awesome fallacies that people might believe if they do not have much knowledge in economics. It's how conservatives work, lots of logical fallacies and bullshit correlations.

 

[SheriffJoe]

The point IS to grow. But government spending doesn't equal growth. Never has, never will.

A wealthy society produces an abundance of consumer goods and services. The more "stuff" an economy produces, the better off everyone's lives - it's that simple.

Only economic illiterate Keynesians believe 'consumption' and government spending produce growth and wealth.

 

[akphidelt]

The point IS to grow. But government spending doesn't equal growth. Never has, never will.

A wealthy society produces an abundance of consumer goods and services. The more "stuff" an economy produces, the better off everyone's lives - it's that simple.

Only economic illiterate Keynesians believe 'consumption' and government spending produce growth and wealth.

You ideology only works on conservative blogs and old school philosophy books. The real world requires intelligent people to make decisions. You are very dumb and no country would ever listen to you or use your failed ideology.

 

[GasMan]

So, simple question, no long theory answer needed.

Why is the government spending massive amounts of money better than the private sector, individuals, citizens, and some government entities (military, welfare etc.) better?

 

[akphidelt]

So, simple question, no long theory answer needed.

Why is the government spending massive amounts of money better than the private sector, individuals, citizens, and some government entities (military, welfare etc.) better?

It's not "better". It's just another source of spending. What separates it from the private sector is the government does not have to spend money in order to produce a profit or for survival (in the sense of an individual or business). If the private sector would increase their spending right now (aka Velocity), then there would be no need to increase government spending drastically. It's a balancing act.

 

[SheriffJoe]

So, simple question, no long theory answer needed.

Why is the government spending massive amounts of money better than the private sector, individuals, citizens, and some government entities (military, welfare etc.) better?

It isn't.

That is why the Soviet economy collapsed and every welfare state is an economic basket case.

We know why fratfraud loves Big Government cheese...his true motives have been exposed.

 

[GasMan]

Exactly my point. I have a house I have not built for over a year, keeping my money, reducing debt, banking away cash, whatever you wanna call it.

It will take almost a year to build and will infuse around 600k into the local economy, local, state and federal tax coffers. Not to mention the amount of people it would employ. Roofers, slabbers, electricians, plumbers, framers, carpenters, appliances, stone, tile, etc.

I also have multiple friends that are in the same boat as I am, not building because of their fear of the crushing hand of the government and what the future holds. Now, I do not think consumer confidence is exceptionally low, nor would I say that I cannot build if I want to...but I am fearful as to what Obamacare holds in store for the industry I work in. Some of the people I mentioned (holding their money on the sidelines) are in the exact same situation.

My taxes have gone up, my expendable income is going down, inflation is creeping in, and NONE of the money I am "giving back" is going into my pockets...at least not directly and nowhere near the rate as to what I am losing.

So, explain to me how this one plays out, and how big government is helping.

 

[Acebb]

increasing spending is necessary when growth becomes slower. When people stop spending money, growth decreases... my theory and the majority of educated economists theory is that this is the time to increase government spending to fill the gap

Slapping-silly90))

Uh, the money the government is spending has to come from somewhere.

This is comical.

 

[SheriffJoe]

The fact fratfraud is even calling for an artificial 'stimulus' (in 2008, AND now) begging the government to invest at a negative return where no private investment capital will go illustrates just how much of a failure central his ideology really is.

If the economy were fertile investment ground, it would be flooded with private capital - far above his piddly 'stimulus'.

Fratfraud is an ignorant dumb-fuck socialist.

 

[GasMan]

^ --- Yeah, from people like me, who is not building a home.

I could go on for days about this crap, but I know it won't matter, so I will await Akphi's answer.

Oh, I miss vitterd already.

 

[Acebb]

And of course government spending doesn't make the economy "grow faster" in fact, it doesn't make the economy grow at all.

 

[Acebb]

My taxes have gone up, my expendable income is going down,


:smoking:

Yes. And when you believe in economic fairy-tales, you actually think that when economic output declines, a rational idea is for the government to take away $3 in disposable income from citizens in order to spend $1 of government money and "presto" economic growth ensues!

 

[akphidelt]

Exactly my point. I have a house I have not built for over a year, keeping my money, reducing debt, banking away cash, whatever you wanna call it.

It will take almost a year to build and will infuse around 600k into the local economy, local, state and federal tax coffers. Not to mention the amount of people it would employ. Roofers, slabbers, electricians, plumbers, framers, carpenters, appliances, stone, tile, etc.

I also have multiple friends that are in the same boat as I am, not building because of their fear of the crushing hand of the government and what the future holds. Now, I do not think consumer confidence is exceptionally low, nor would I say that I cannot build if I want to...but I am fearful as to what Obamacare holds in store for the industry I work in. Some of the people I mentioned (holding their money on the sidelines) are in the exact same situation.

My taxes have gone up, my expendable income is going down, inflation is creeping in, and NONE of the money I am "giving back" is going into my pockets...at least not directly and nowhere near the rate as to what I am losing.

So, explain to me how this one plays out, and how big government is helping.

You are like millions of American's. You can see it in this graph...

People are not spending money. What you explained is why the Federal Reserve and economists fear deflation so much. The reason you guys aren't building those houses has nothing to do with the government. It has to do with demand. If you can spend $600k on a house and houses like that are going for $800k, you would be building it regardless of what taxes were or what the government is doing. Whenever their is a recession and prices stagnate, individuals have less opportunities for profit. That's why savings increases, that's why people pay off more debt, etc. There is not very many opportunities for profit.

The reason government spending would help that is it would increase the demand in the economy. That demand is what drives people like you to build houses or invest in whatever else you want to invest in. People buying shit is what drives the economy. When people stop buying shit and you force the government to stop spending, you'll get a Depression and a really bad Depression as there is no stop to the deflationary spiral.

Quantity Theory of Money in it's simplest form: Qty*Velocity=GDP. So as the graph shows above, Velocity has plummeted. The only way to increase productivity with that amount of loss is through an influx of Qty. That's why Reagan's top economic adviser and Krugman both agree (which is ridiculous) that the only way the economy will get the amount of money it needs is through another WWII type fiscal expansion.

We are going to suffer for years as long as the government continues this slow expansion of spending and hiring. The Fed has done everything possible to keep deflation from happening and I'm sure they will force the government in to action if it actually does present itself in 2014 or 2015. But long story short, demand drives the economy... the Government can create that demand like they have for the past century if politicians will allow them. The only preventing it from happening right now is crazy ideologues that have an insane fear of Government.

You should read up on what the Government was doing in 1937. All your arguments are the exact same arguments they had then, just with smaller numbers. Your ideology simply will not work, it's mathematical impossible to grow our economy without debt based on reasonable limits to velocity.