GameGAMEFACE said:
Maybe? But why do you keep insisting that Saddam and 9/11 are related?
They are not, this has been proved by everybody. Can't understand why
some of you guys don't get that. You keep repeating it as if somehow
if you say it enough it will become true. Not related at all Game.
Staci,
It has been disproved either. Saddam was one #1 terrorist in the world, we just couldn't take the chance and hope and pray he'd be agood guy. If Saddam bluffed and didn't have the weapons then he got what he deserved after all the resolutions. Personally I believe the weapons exist and are somewhere. Just like Kerry is bringing up Iran and North Korea he'd be talking of Iraq in the same way now. Kerry will say whatever sounds good.
It has been disproved either. Saddam was one #1 terrorist in the world, we just couldn't take the chance and hope and pray he'd be agood guy. If Saddam bluffed and didn't have the weapons then he got what he deserved after all the resolutions. Personally I believe the weapons exist and are somewhere. Just like Kerry is bringing up Iran and North Korea he'd be talking of Iraq in the same way now. Kerry will say whatever sounds good.
Alot of "supposing" based on circumstances forever unknown. Empty assertions and reckless conjecture.
Read up a little bit on Islam and the differences between theocratic and secular, before you propose absurdities.
OBM had no more use for Saddam than he did for the "bush"... figure it out yourself.
Read up a little bit on Islam and the differences between theocratic and secular, before you propose absurdities.
OBM had no more use for Saddam than he did for the "bush"... figure it out yourself.
GAMEFACE said:
Game
I just had to delete an entire argument to show you why you
are totally wrong. I decided what the hell is the use. You
and your type could have 100% proof right in front of your face
and you still would not submit. This is not an l or c argument.
Both sides realize there is no connection. Only the most
reactionary and defensive would argue the opposite.
GAMEFACE said:
Goodjob Gamer
This is the spin the CONS are using right now "take the chance". Thats the buzz phrase. You really think America would agree to this ?
Its absurd to think we invaded Iraq over all the other countries with WMD and terrorist potential. Its one thing to sanction a country or to even do what Bush Sr did, chase some forces out of an area, its a whole new ball game to go into another country and via a crusade try to convert them to Christians.
stacilu......I consider myself to be very liberal and very much a live and let live kind of person.....however, in regards to the radical muslims......the more these terrorist attacks happen, the more the world will look at muslims in general with the same attitude as one looks at a pitbull.......I see pitbulls and I see a dangerous breed of dog that may be a bit moody and unpredictable at times....is this the one that's going to tear up someone's kid someday????
Not to sound overly racist about this whole issue, but if this continues there will be a stereotype earned for the whole race as a result of the actions of a few.....there may come a day that arabs are welcome only where there is both oil and sand......
Not to sound overly racist about this whole issue, but if this continues there will be a stereotype earned for the whole race as a result of the actions of a few.....there may come a day that arabs are welcome only where there is both oil and sand......
Marco
I am afraid you are correct, however the image isn't the truth.
Of course, we are generally afraid of all these people. But,
less than 1% are the animals. Like you said so well
a stereotype will be earned and that is the shame of it.
Fear, hate and prejudice were the reasons for many
a war and this is no exception. Thanks for your opinion.
I am afraid you are correct, however the image isn't the truth.
Of course, we are generally afraid of all these people. But,
less than 1% are the animals. Like you said so well
a stereotype will be earned and that is the shame of it.
Fear, hate and prejudice were the reasons for many
a war and this is no exception. Thanks for your opinion.
From The Christian Science Monitor:
As an architect of terror, what does bin Laden's ideological blueprint look like?
Bin Laden desires nothing short of pan-Arab theocracy, says Graham Allison, a Harvard political science professor and former Clinton administration defense analyst. "Bin Laden represents a very extreme form of Islam in which he has...a grand vision of an Islamic revival - an extreme Islamic caliphate that would run across the Middle East from Iraq to Morocco."
He is also part of an Islamic fundamentalist political tradition deeply opposed to nationalism, says Wellesley College political science professor Roxanne Euben. "[Bin Laden] sees himself as engaged in the fight to restore the dignity and purity of Islam from the corruptions of Western culture and power from without, and the betrayal of Islam from within by Muslims, both elite and non-elite, who have allowed Islam and Muslims to be degraded."
Saddam Hussein's political vision, however, appears peripheral to his personal ambitions. The Baathist ideology he promotes is a version of Arab socialism, but as Ms. Euben says, "...the only vision he seems to have is the maintenance and augmentation of his own power, by whatever means necessary."
Are these blueprints compatible? Mr. Allison doesn't think so. "Saddam Hussein and bin Laden are not very closely connected," he says.
As the prospect of war against Iraq grows, bin Laden appears willing to tolerate an "infidel" socialist like Hussein to further the cause of united Muslim opposition to the "Satanic" powers of America. As he is purported to say in his tape, "It doesn't hurt, under these conditions, that the interests of Muslims contradict the interest of the socialists in the fight against the crusaders."
By Andrew Chang
<!-- End Byline --><!-- END PRINT --><!-- BEGIN PRINT --><!-- BylineCredit -->
A Network of Ironies
Both Saddam and bin Laden also have a certain resonance in the American leaders they have become bogeymen for. While Saddam personified evil for former President Bush, bin Laden personifies evil for his son, the current president.
"It's somewhat ironic," Wood said, especially since the two Bushes come from a party that has traditionally aligned with Arab interests — and from a family whose wealth is based on oil.
Accordingly, both Saddam and bin Laden have both become rallying points for certain populations in the Middle East, and therefore U.S. access to the region's oil deposits becomes a component of the situation.
The American hunt for them both also incorporates Saudi Arabia, another major oil producer — whose proximity to Iraq will affect any move on Saddam, and whose powerful clerics can affect the fight against al Qaeda.
Saddam and bin Laden were also the patrons of U.S. largesse at one time during their rise to power. During the 1980s, the United States made covert arms transactions with the mujahideen in Afghanistan for their fight against the Soviets, and with Iraq, during its eight year conflict with Iran.
In Opposite Directions
However, while Saddam and bin Laden are similar in their means, they differ in the ends.
Bin Laden is a religious fundamentalist who has said his greatest ambition is to establish a pan-Islamic state. In contrast, experts said, Saddam's goals are simply to accumulate power.
"Bin Laden's goals are ideological," said Sharif Ali bin Al-Hussein, a spokesman for the Iraqi National Congress, an opposition group. "Saddam Hussein should be looked at as a gangster."
Saddam's "agenda is survival of his regime, himself,[and] Iraq," said Amin Tarzi, a former adviser on Iraq to Saudi Arabia and the United Arab Emirates, and now a researcher at the Monterey Institute.
Saddam sees himself as a champion of the Arabs — which precludes the Muslims in Africa, America and Southeast Asia that would play into bin Laden's worldview. Bin Laden, as a stateless terrorist, may even be a threat to Saddam, the head of a secular state, experts said.
The lives of these two men have gone in opposite directions. Saddam, poor and illiterate as a youth, has gone to living in opulent palaces. Bin Laden, born to one of the wealthiest families in the world, has spent much time lately living in caves and mud huts. "One went from rags to riches and the other went from riches to rags," said Tarzi.
<!-- end story -->
As an architect of terror, what does bin Laden's ideological blueprint look like?
Bin Laden desires nothing short of pan-Arab theocracy, says Graham Allison, a Harvard political science professor and former Clinton administration defense analyst. "Bin Laden represents a very extreme form of Islam in which he has...a grand vision of an Islamic revival - an extreme Islamic caliphate that would run across the Middle East from Iraq to Morocco."
He is also part of an Islamic fundamentalist political tradition deeply opposed to nationalism, says Wellesley College political science professor Roxanne Euben. "[Bin Laden] sees himself as engaged in the fight to restore the dignity and purity of Islam from the corruptions of Western culture and power from without, and the betrayal of Islam from within by Muslims, both elite and non-elite, who have allowed Islam and Muslims to be degraded."
Saddam Hussein's political vision, however, appears peripheral to his personal ambitions. The Baathist ideology he promotes is a version of Arab socialism, but as Ms. Euben says, "...the only vision he seems to have is the maintenance and augmentation of his own power, by whatever means necessary."
Are these blueprints compatible? Mr. Allison doesn't think so. "Saddam Hussein and bin Laden are not very closely connected," he says.
As the prospect of war against Iraq grows, bin Laden appears willing to tolerate an "infidel" socialist like Hussein to further the cause of united Muslim opposition to the "Satanic" powers of America. As he is purported to say in his tape, "It doesn't hurt, under these conditions, that the interests of Muslims contradict the interest of the socialists in the fight against the crusaders."
By Andrew Chang
<!-- End Byline --><!-- END PRINT --><!-- BEGIN PRINT --><!-- BylineCredit -->
A Network of Ironies
Both Saddam and bin Laden also have a certain resonance in the American leaders they have become bogeymen for. While Saddam personified evil for former President Bush, bin Laden personifies evil for his son, the current president.
"It's somewhat ironic," Wood said, especially since the two Bushes come from a party that has traditionally aligned with Arab interests — and from a family whose wealth is based on oil.
Accordingly, both Saddam and bin Laden have both become rallying points for certain populations in the Middle East, and therefore U.S. access to the region's oil deposits becomes a component of the situation.
The American hunt for them both also incorporates Saudi Arabia, another major oil producer — whose proximity to Iraq will affect any move on Saddam, and whose powerful clerics can affect the fight against al Qaeda.
Saddam and bin Laden were also the patrons of U.S. largesse at one time during their rise to power. During the 1980s, the United States made covert arms transactions with the mujahideen in Afghanistan for their fight against the Soviets, and with Iraq, during its eight year conflict with Iran.
In Opposite Directions
However, while Saddam and bin Laden are similar in their means, they differ in the ends.
Bin Laden is a religious fundamentalist who has said his greatest ambition is to establish a pan-Islamic state. In contrast, experts said, Saddam's goals are simply to accumulate power.
"Bin Laden's goals are ideological," said Sharif Ali bin Al-Hussein, a spokesman for the Iraqi National Congress, an opposition group. "Saddam Hussein should be looked at as a gangster."
Saddam's "agenda is survival of his regime, himself,[and] Iraq," said Amin Tarzi, a former adviser on Iraq to Saudi Arabia and the United Arab Emirates, and now a researcher at the Monterey Institute.
Saddam sees himself as a champion of the Arabs — which precludes the Muslims in Africa, America and Southeast Asia that would play into bin Laden's worldview. Bin Laden, as a stateless terrorist, may even be a threat to Saddam, the head of a secular state, experts said.
The lives of these two men have gone in opposite directions. Saddam, poor and illiterate as a youth, has gone to living in opulent palaces. Bin Laden, born to one of the wealthiest families in the world, has spent much time lately living in caves and mud huts. "One went from rags to riches and the other went from riches to rags," said Tarzi.
<!-- end story -->
cussin....reading that last paragraph....often makes me wonder why people in such a position of wealthy heritage turn and go some direction that makes them a hunted individual by authorities....such as the case of OBL......
I can't imagine a cause so near and dear to me that I would give up the riches and abundance and all the perks and security that go with it to go running from cave to cave and dodge bullets and staying basically hidden from public view........
I can't imagine a cause so near and dear to me that I would give up the riches and abundance and all the perks and security that go with it to go running from cave to cave and dodge bullets and staying basically hidden from public view........
Marco
How about dozens of virgins waiting for you in an
everlasting heaven? That naturally is a generalization
but the fact of the manner is religion. These people
get so caught up by some crazy mullahs that they
are more than willing to die and immediately go to
heaven. Have you noticed something about most
of these crazy martyrs, most of them are young kids.
Sounds like their leaders are very willing to allow
the kids to go to their death but are a little reluctant
to go themselves. Sound like any other administration
you know????
How about dozens of virgins waiting for you in an
everlasting heaven? That naturally is a generalization
but the fact of the manner is religion. These people
get so caught up by some crazy mullahs that they
are more than willing to die and immediately go to
heaven. Have you noticed something about most
of these crazy martyrs, most of them are young kids.
Sounds like their leaders are very willing to allow
the kids to go to their death but are a little reluctant
to go themselves. Sound like any other administration
you know????
You mean that administration that has tons of experience dodging active military duty and getting multiple deferments???? Thats a tough one....:ughhh:
About the religious thing.....I guess I was never that religious that I would just strap on a crate of dynamite and thumb a ride on the next bus......too much live and let live in me to be that religious.....
About the religious thing.....I guess I was never that religious that I would just strap on a crate of dynamite and thumb a ride on the next bus......too much live and let live in me to be that religious.....
Obviously any sane God would not condone killing.
It is so obvious that I even hesitate to mention it.
Different beliefs, different culture, and just
crazy people. Many, very many are living in
incredible poverty and reach out for an answer.
The answer doesn't come from their corrupt
governments. They have little support from
anybody so they turn to fundametalists.
Of course, not an excuse or even a partial
answer. We just try to rationalize and understand
something that is irrational and unexplainable.
Many of these Arab governments are partially
to blame for this nonsense. They give their people
little hope for achieving and perpetuate their
own wealth while their people suffer. Education
and social help for these people would be a good
starting point.
It is so obvious that I even hesitate to mention it.
Different beliefs, different culture, and just
crazy people. Many, very many are living in
incredible poverty and reach out for an answer.
The answer doesn't come from their corrupt
governments. They have little support from
anybody so they turn to fundametalists.
Of course, not an excuse or even a partial
answer. We just try to rationalize and understand
something that is irrational and unexplainable.
Many of these Arab governments are partially
to blame for this nonsense. They give their people
little hope for achieving and perpetuate their
own wealth while their people suffer. Education
and social help for these people would be a good
starting point.
