Dodgers get run on 'fourth-out rule'

[onemwtheone]

Didn't know this was even possible.

http://mlb.mlb.com/news/article.jsp...news_mlb&fext=.jsp&c_id=mlb&partnerId=rss_mlb

PHOENIX -- The Dodgers literally were awarded a gift run in the second inning Sunday when a rarely seen "fourth-out rule" was invoked in their game against the D-backs.

Andre Ethier was at third base, Juan Pierre at second, and with one out, Randy Wolf lined out to pitcher Dan Haren, who threw to second baseman Felipe Lopez, who tagged out Pierre off second base for the apparent third out of the inning.
But by the time Pierre was erased, Ethier had crossed the plate. The D-backs left the field without making a play on Ethier at third base, which would have been the fourth out of the inning.
But as the teams changed sides, plate umpire Larry Vanover walked over to third-base umpire Charlie Reliford, apparently to discuss the play, which Dodgers bench coach Bob Schaefer pointed out to manager Joe Torre, who went out to appeal.
After an umpire huddle, Vanover ruled that the Ethier run counted, even though Ethier had not tagged up, because there was no appeal at third base. Even though a play at third on Ethier would have been the fourth out of the inning, it would have taken precedence over the third out because it would have erased a run. Arizona scored in the first inning. One pitch after Wolf thought he struck out Felipe Lopez (Vanover disagreed), Lopez doubled, was bunted to third by Chris Young and scored on Stephen Drew's sacrifice fly.

 

[downtown2222]

seems like a coaching mistake by dbacks..

 

[Hucklebuck]

seems like a coaching mistake by dbacks..

Yeah, always be sure of the 4th out

 

[Illini]

It wasn't a "4th out rule." It's just that a double up on a fly ball out is a timing play, not a force out, regardless of whether the runner is tagged or if the base is tagged. The run scored before the out, and so it counts, unless they appeal. They didn't appeal.

 

[SayHeyKid]

That's what I love about baseball. There's a unique play/insistence that occurs everyday.

 

[MICKEYL]

Once Arizona left the field, they relinquished all rights on any appeal. Clearly a coaching mistake where Torre is a much smarter coach and prooved it yesterday.

 

[krk1030]

How did he cross home before they got the out at 2nd.....

 

[mplastered]

I think because he tagged the runner instead of the bag.

 

[jwblue]

This should make it clear.

Ethier did not tag up before the ball was caught. That is the core of the play.

If he steps on second it is a force out and it is irrelevant that Ethier took off early before the ball was caught. Third out.

But since he tagged Pierre instead, the run can only count IF Ethier tags up after the catch. BUT HE DID NOT TAG UP, SO THE RUN SHOULD NOT COUNT. BUT ARIZONA DID NOT PROTEST THAT HE LEFT EARLY. WHEN THEY LEFT THE FIELD, THEY LOST THE RIGHT TO PROTEST

Really smart call by the Schaefer and Torre

 

[GimmeDattt]

High School coaches take note. This is an easy run.

No team would ever appeal for a 4th out.

 

[GimmeDattt]

So if I have a guy on 2nd and a guy on 3rd with 1 out and a deep fly ball is hit to right field I should just tell both guys to run and not tag up. The guy at 3rd crosses the plate for the run. The rightfielder gets the out at 2nd because he is not going to throw past 2nd base when he can just get the out their and they walk off the field and I have a run?

If I am understanding this correctly.

 

[jwblue]

So if I have a guy on 2nd and a guy on 3rd with 1 out and a deep fly ball is hit to right field I should just tell both guys to run and not tag up. The guy at 3rd crosses the plate for the run. The rightfielder gets the out at 2nd because he is not going to throw past 2nd base when he can just get the out their and they walk off the field and I have a run?

If I am understanding this correctly.

Why would you give the other team two outs instead of 1?

Regardless.

The opposing manager will protest the fact the runners left early. They will be out.

That is why the Dodgers were given the run. The D'Backs did not protest. If they stepped on second instead of tagging Pierre, Ethier's run would have been irrelevant.

 

[krk1030]

So if I have a guy on 2nd and a guy on 3rd with 1 out and a deep fly ball is hit to right field I should just tell both guys to run and not tag up. The guy at 3rd crosses the plate for the run. The rightfielder gets the out at 2nd because he is not going to throw past 2nd base when he can just get the out their and they walk off the field and I have a run?

If I am understanding this correctly.

No. If they tag 2nd base the inning is over and no run scores. The run would only score if they tagged the runner from 2nd base after the first runner scored and did not appeal.

It's really not something you can try to exploit.

 

[jwblue]

If he steps on second it is a force out and it is irrelevant that Ethier took off early before the ball was caught. Third out.

I take this back. I am not sure if this is true.

 

[Illini]

If he steps on second it is a force out and it is irrelevant that Ethier took off early before the ball was caught. Third out.

That's not correct. It is not a force out. The run still counts unless appealed.

 

[Illini]

No. If they tag 2nd base the inning is over and no run scores. The run would only score if they tagged the runner from 2nd base after the first runner scored and did not appeal.

It's really not something you can try to exploit.

Wrong. It's a time play, not a force out. The run scores if the runner crosses the plate before the out is made, whether the fielder tags the base or the player.

For example.......1st and 3rd one out. Fly ball to deep center is caught. Runner on third tags and scores. Runner on first got all the way between 2nd and 3rd, thinking it was gonna drop. Center fielder throws to the the first basemen, and he steps on the bag. 3rd out, inning over. But the run still counts, as long as he crossed before the 1st baseman tags the bag. And no appeal can take away this run, it stands for good.

 

[Illini]

So if I have a guy on 2nd and a guy on 3rd with 1 out and a deep fly ball is hit to right field I should just tell both guys to run and not tag up. The guy at 3rd crosses the plate for the run. The rightfielder gets the out at 2nd because he is not going to throw past 2nd base when he can just get the out their and they walk off the field and I have a run?

If I am understanding this correctly.

If you're okay with your next batter taking one in the earhole, go ahead.

Actually, on second thought, don't do it anyway. The other team might be smart enough to appeal, and the umpires at the high school level probably won't be smart enough to know that it's not a force out at 2nd.