Sorry about that......here is another link....i'll try to find the other one
http://answers.google.com/answers/threadview?id=428718
http://answers.google.com/answers/threadview?id=428718
I don't think Mythbusters is going to fix it up purposely so that it would fly and be "amazing", they do plenty of things that would be really really cool if they worked but end up not working. Anyone see the rocket-propelled car episode? Man, that would've been sweet.
Personally I thought it would at first, now I'm not so sure, but I've only got 5 bucks on it at +150 so I'll probably just let it ride even though I could hedge, I don't really consider it worth it to hedge and guarantee myself the amount of one sausage mcmuffin sandwich. I'm kinda leaning towards that it shouldn't fly on a calm day, but if it has a bit of a tail wind it just might, but it's been years since I took physics and we never got into aerodynamics anyway.
Personally I thought it would at first, now I'm not so sure, but I've only got 5 bucks on it at +150 so I'll probably just let it ride even though I could hedge, I don't really consider it worth it to hedge and guarantee myself the amount of one sausage mcmuffin sandwich. I'm kinda leaning towards that it shouldn't fly on a calm day, but if it has a bit of a tail wind it just might, but it's been years since I took physics and we never got into aerodynamics anyway.
Just as I thought....lots of variables. And this is a "Question for the Ages".....
Heres a posted story.....
Dear Cecil:
Please, please, please settle this question. The discussion has been going on for ages, and any time someone mentions the words "airplane" or "conveyor belt" everyone starts right back up. Here's the original problem essentially as it was posed to us: "A plane is standing on a runway that can move (some sort of band conveyer). The plane moves in one direction, while the conveyer moves in the opposite direction. This conveyer has a control system that tracks the plane speed and tunes the speed of the conveyer to be exactly the same (but in the opposite direction). Can the plane take off?"
There are some difficulties with the wording of the problem, specifically regarding how we define speed, but the spirit of the situation is clear. The solution is also clear to me (and many others), but a staunch group of unbelievers won't accept it. My conclusion is that the plane does take off. Planes, whether jet or propeller, work by pulling themselves through the air. The rotation of their tires results from this forward movement, and has no bearing on the behavior of a plane during takeoff. I claim the only difference between a regular plane and one on a conveyor belt is that the conveyor belt plane's wheels will spin twice as fast during takeoff. Please, Cecil, show us that it's not only theoretically possible (with frictionless wheels) but it's actually possible too. --Berj A. Doudian, via e-mail
Supposedly the plane will fly.
Heres a posted story.....
Dear Cecil:
Please, please, please settle this question. The discussion has been going on for ages, and any time someone mentions the words "airplane" or "conveyor belt" everyone starts right back up. Here's the original problem essentially as it was posed to us: "A plane is standing on a runway that can move (some sort of band conveyer). The plane moves in one direction, while the conveyer moves in the opposite direction. This conveyer has a control system that tracks the plane speed and tunes the speed of the conveyer to be exactly the same (but in the opposite direction). Can the plane take off?"
There are some difficulties with the wording of the problem, specifically regarding how we define speed, but the spirit of the situation is clear. The solution is also clear to me (and many others), but a staunch group of unbelievers won't accept it. My conclusion is that the plane does take off. Planes, whether jet or propeller, work by pulling themselves through the air. The rotation of their tires results from this forward movement, and has no bearing on the behavior of a plane during takeoff. I claim the only difference between a regular plane and one on a conveyor belt is that the conveyor belt plane's wheels will spin twice as fast during takeoff. Please, Cecil, show us that it's not only theoretically possible (with frictionless wheels) but it's actually possible too. --Berj A. Doudian, via e-mail
Supposedly the plane will fly.
Yeah i read that on The Straight Dope too and it does make me a little worried. There are really smart people on both sides of this. To be honest, the more I think about it the more I think that on the show they will get it to work one way and get it not to work another. It seems like it is likely that MB will just have to cancel this wager. Since the wording is so simple I think people will bitch at the outcome either way.
you post one person's comments and conclude that the plane will fly, when there are 1000s of pages of message board posts clearly stating strong viewpoints on both sides?
The question that has to be answered, is plane speed relative to what? Relative to the ground, so that the plane is moving twice as fast as normal relative to the conveyor belt, or relative to the conveyor belt so that the plane is standing still in relation to the ground?
The question that has to be answered, is plane speed relative to what? Relative to the ground, so that the plane is moving twice as fast as normal relative to the conveyor belt, or relative to the conveyor belt so that the plane is standing still in relation to the ground?
The above is the error.
1. A prop plane moves forward by pulling itself through the air.
2. A jet plane moves by pushing itself through the air.
3. While these actions achieve movement on the ground they are insufficient for flight. A plane flies due to the nature of the wing which causes the air above the wing to be displaced and become less dense than the air under the wing. In a sense it is sucked upward.
4. A plane on a conveyor belt, not moving with respect to the ground, will have no airflow over the wing and won't fly.
And that's all there is to it.
Ok, I change my mind. The plane will move forward and take off. The question is somewhat misleading, and I can finally see why.
To stop the plane from moving forward, the conveyor belt has to rely on whatever amount of friction there is in the wheels, and it's not much.
A regular plane (prop or jet, doesn't matter) on free wheels cannot be stopped from moving forward by friction alone.
To stop the plane from moving forward, the conveyor belt has to rely on whatever amount of friction there is in the wheels, and it's not much.
A regular plane (prop or jet, doesn't matter) on free wheels cannot be stopped from moving forward by friction alone.
The plane will fly. There was a thread in RR about this that got pretty heated. Sometimes people get confused by how the question is asked. There is no windtunnel in the original question, it is simply a plane on a conveyor belt that matches the speed of the plane's forward motion. If that's the case, the plane takes off as the conveyor belt has no effect on the plane's forward motion.
The wheels of the plane are free spinning and are just there to reduce friction. I am going to be hitting WILL FLY on this. There are a bunch of great youtube videos that explain the logic behind this very well.
The wheels of the plane are free spinning and are just there to reduce friction. I am going to be hitting WILL FLY on this. There are a bunch of great youtube videos that explain the logic behind this very well.
