Bush's 9/11 coverup? Family members of victims of the terror attacks say the White House has smothered every attempt to get to the bottom of the outr

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By Eric Boehlert
Salon.com


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Sally Regenhard, left, and Monica Gabrielle, whose son and husband, respectively, died in the World Trade Center attacks, attend a public hearing on the attacks before a joint House-Senate Intelligence Committees hearing in September 2002.

For family members of those who died on Sept. 11, last week brought a rare chance to meet face-to-face with a man who's become a symbol of their dissatisfaction -- FBI director Robert Mueller. The bureau had quietly invited several dozen family members to Washington to hear a presentation on the war on terrorism, but for the small band of husbands, wives and parents who successfully lobbied Congress last year for an independent 9/11 commission to investigate the attacks, it was a chance to ask some of the troubling questions that they have about that day.

They weren't simply queries about the national security collapse that occurred on 9/11, and how a hijacked plane, flying hundreds of miles off course, was able to dive-bomb untouched into the Pentagon a full hour after the World Trade Center had already been attacked twice. Or how more than a dozen terrorists were able to enter America illegally and then live here undetected for weeks and months, and why U.S. intelligence sources failed to piece together significant clues that emerged in advance of the attack.

Family advocates also wanted to know why the government -- and specifically the Bush administration -- has been so reluctant to find answers to any of the obvious questions about what went wrong that day, why so little has been fixed, and why virtually nobody has accepted any responsibility for the glaring failures.

While the administration of President George W. Bush is aggressively positioning itself as the world leader in the war on terrorism, some families of the Sept. 11 victims say that the facts increasingly contradict that script. The White House long opposed the formation of a blue ribbon Sept. 11 commission, some say, and even now that panel is underfunded and struggling to build momentum. And, they say, the administration is suppressing a 900-page congressional study, possibly out of fear that the findings will be politically damaging to Bush.

"We've been fighting for nearly 21 months -- fighting the administration, the White House," says Monica Gabrielle. Her husband, Richard, an insurance broker who worked for Aon Corp. on the 103rd floor of the World Trade Center's Tower 2, died during the attacks. "As soon as we started looking for answers we were blocked, put off and ignored at every stop of the way. We were shocked. The White House is just blocking everything."

Another 9/11 family advocate -- a former Bush supporter who requested anonymity -- was more blunt: "Bush has done everything in his power to squelch this [9/11] commission and prevent it from happening."

Thus far, the administration has largely succeeded. Its stonewalling has gotten little news coverage, and there is scant evidence that the public is outraged. The national discussion has moved on -- to Iraq, to that country's still-missing weapons of mass destruction, to Laci Peterson. But there are increasing signs that White House efforts to blunt a full inquiry into the domestic failures that preceded Sept. 11 could emerge as an issue in the 2004 presidential campaign, in which Bush and his handlers hope to exploit 9/11 for maximum political advantage.

Sen. Bob Graham, a Florida Democrat and former chair of the Senate Intelligence Committee, has raised the profile of his presidential campaign with sharp criticism of Bush for both his administration's intelligence failures before Sept. 11 and its attempt to paper them over since. "The public has the right to know what its government has done and is doing to protect Americans and U.S. interests," Graham told Salon Monday. "Potential embarrassment isn't a good enough reason to keep these government materials secret."

Other Democrats almost certainly will realize that the issue is one way to counter the public's belief that Bush has been an effective leader in the war on terrorism.

Perhaps it was fear of a backlash that provoked Bush's staff to invite the Sept. 11 families to the Mueller seminar. But by the accounts of several people who attended the briefing at FBI headquarters, in a wing named after Bush's father, the mood was often contentious as the FBI chief and Department of Justice prosecutors answered questions for more than two hours. One flash point came during a sharp exchange about what the FBI had -- or had not -- done with several internal memos filed by field agents detailing concerns that al-Qaida operatives may be training at U.S. flight schools. Mueller confirmed that weeks before the Sept. 11 attack, one young FBI agent had seen two such memos but that she did not act on them.

According to family representatives, Mueller defended the agent, saying she did not have the proper training or tools to take action on the information. But when pressed on how such egregious oversight was able to occur, the director grew defensive and then demanded: "What do you want me to do, fire her?"

The remark was meant to be rhetorical, but in unison family members responded audibly: "Yes!"

"We're the most skeptical audience Mueller will ever have, and I think it showed," says Sept. 11 widow Beverly Eckert, whose husband, Sean Rooney, died in the twin towers. "We want answers."

Just over a year ago, the families' questions were at least being asked. During May 2002, controversy swirled when CBS News reported that five weeks before the Sept. 11 attacks, Bush had been briefed about an active plot by Osama bin Laden's al-Qaida operatives to seize civilian aircraft. The revelations stood in stark contrast to White House spin in the wake of the Sept. 11 attacks that nobody in the administration or the intelligence community had "specific information" about a possible hijacking plot.

Into that combustible mix came revelations that FBI special agents in Phoenix and Minnesota had warned their superiors about suspected al-Qaida operatives training at U.S. flight schools. For the White House, the "what did Bush know and when did he know it" narrative was its first real political crisis after Sept. 11, the first time the press along with Democrats were asking pointed questions -- and gaining traction by the day. Even the New York Post, usually a reliable White House ally, ran a headline that declared "Bush Knew"; the conservative Weekly Standard warned that "the administration is now in danger of looking as if it has engaged in a cover-up."


But the White House, aided by global circumstances and a distractible news media, conspired to change the subject.

First, a succession of senior administration officials made dire warnings about the certainty of suicide bombers striking inside America. Then, on June 6, 2002, the administration abruptly reversed itself and announced it was backing the creation of the Department of Homeland Security, as first proposed by Democrats. And the White House made the historic announcement the same day FBI agent Colleen Rowley testified before Congress about her famous Minneapolis memo, ensuring that the Department of Homeland Security was the next day's top headline.

Then, by last August, the Capitol was abuzz in talk of war with Iraq, and the buzz persisted for the next nine months. "Iraq changed everything with the press," says one victims' advocate whose wife died in Tower 1. "Nobody cares about this after Iraq."

"It was a successful attempt to change the story," notes John Pike, director of GlobalSecurity.org, a nonprofit defense policy group. "From the White House's perspective, no good can come of these [9/11] investigations. So I think their approach has been entirely predictable, and easy to understand."

Adding insult for some family activists was the fact that Bush used the 9/11 attacks as a justification for the war on Iraq. "I sat and listened to the State of the Union speech [last January] when Bush mentioned 9/11 12 or 13 times," recalls Kristin Breitweiser, whose husband, Ronald, was killed when United Flight 175 slammed into Tower 1. "At the same time, we were having trouble getting funding for the independent commission."

Gabrielle was equally upset: "Bush has never personally met with the [9/11] families to discuss any of this, so for him to use Sept. 11 and its victims to justify his agenda, I myself am disgusted."

In the face of today's public indifference, the victim activists have placed their faith in two investigations they hope will finally answer some key questions. Though the Sept. 11 attacks were arguably one of the decisive moments in U.S. history, both investigations appear mired in a deadly Beltway mixture of bureaucratic morass and political sniping.

The first was a bipartisan joint inquiry conducted by the House and Senate examining intelligence and law-enforcement failures that led up to the Sept. 11 attack. Its relatively narrow scope came about after Bush and Vice President Dick Cheney personally phoned then-Senate Majority Leader Tom Daschle, D-S.D., in late January 2002, pressuring him to limit the congressional investigation surrounding Sept. 11.

Despite budget restraints and complaints from Sen. John McCain, R-Ariz., that the White House had "slow-walked and stonewalled" the joint inquiry, the panel's 900-page report was completed late last year. Today it remains stuck in national security limbo as the joint inquiry staff negotiates with the White House and its intelligence agencies over what portions can and cannot be released in the public version of the report. The release date has already been pushed back several times as the declassification process drags on into its seventh month. Even the Republican chairman of the joint inquiry, Rep. Porter Goss of Florida, a former CIA operations officer, has expressed deep frustration at the pace of the process.

"It appears the joint intelligence committee did too good of a job," quips Breitweiser. Indeed, last fall the New York Times reported that "the findings of a joint committee have been far more damaging than most officials at either agency expected when the panel's inquiry began [in early 2002]." The report is expected to detail disturbing lapses in counterterrorism at the CIA and FBI, where warnings about the Sept. 11 attacks went unheeded. They're revelations that are sure to be uncomfortable for the administration.

"I understand when you have national security issues, that's fine," says Breitweiser. "But I hope [the delay] is about national security issues and it's not about embarrassment. Because for people to be holding up making this nation safe because they fear embarrassment, I don't have any time for that. We need to fix the egregious errors of 9/11."

Raising concerns about the joint inquiry review process was the revelation that the administration wanted some information that had already been made public during open hearings to be reclassified in the joint inquiry report. Also alarming was the news from this spring when former Rep. and current 9/11 commissioner Tim Roemer, an Indiana Democrat, tried to read transcripts from the joint inquiry's closed-door hearings. Even though he had actually served on the joint inquiry a year earlier, Department of Justice attorneys refused to let him read the transcripts, insisting that the White House needed five days to decide whether it wanted to exert executive privilege to keep the information under wraps. The White House eventually relented.

"It was upsetting to find out the White House was trying to block the independent commission's access to the joint inquiry information, when we all know the mandate that created the independent commission states clearly that the commission is to use the joint inquiry as a starting-off point," notes Breitweiser, who also voted for Bush in 2000. "So why would they be blocking access to that?"

Today, the negotiating continues over what gets declassified. "We're making some headway. It's a very long, complicated process. But the public deserves to be told as much as we can tell them about what happened on Sept. 11," reports Eleanor Hill, who directed the joint inquiry staff. Asked whether she's happy with the level of cooperation she's receiving from the administration's intelligence community, Hill responded: "I'll reserve judgment on that."

As Breitweiser noted, the joint inquiry report is supposed to serve as a springboard for the independent 9/11 commission, which is charged with taking a much broader view of the terrorist attack -- everything from border security to immigration. (A classified version of the joint inquiry report has already been made available to the commission.)

Known formally as the National Commission on Terrorist Attacks Upon the United States, the panel has been bogged down by delays in obtaining security clearances, setting guidelines for how the group would handle classified material, and selecting members. The White House first proposed Henry Kissinger to chair the panel, which provoked some bitter complaints. Kissinger eventually withdrew after refusing to make public the list of his consulting clients.

"I would've thought it'd be further along by now," says Gabrielle. "The length of time it's taken to get up and running is astonishing."

Commission spokesman Al Felzenberg calls the panel's inquiry "the most important investigation ever done in American history, given its scope." The final report, due next May, will be "the definitive account of what took place on Sept. 11," he says, "how it could happen and what went wrong, as well as what worked and what did not work and what recommendation would we have for the American government and the American people to make it safer."

But the investigation almost never happened at all.

Family advocates complain it was created virtually in spite of the White House; they point to the extraordinary game of hardball the administration practiced right on the eve of last year's midterm elections when it derailed a bipartisan congressional deal to form the commission, citing concerns with its potential scope and subpoena power. Members of both parties who had already scheduled a press conference to announce the panel were stunned by the turn of events. Weeks after the 2002 election, and following a candlelight vigil by 9/11 victim families held in Lafayette Park across the street from the White House, the independent commission was finally formed, more than a year after the terrorists attacked.

"Bush begrudgingly signed [the commission] into law," complains one family advocate. "Since it was created, he's done everything to take the teeth out of it. His fingerprints and Karl Rove's are all over this."

"If President Bush and the administration are not happy with the independent commission, then it's their own fault because all they had to do was set up a commission on their own," adds Breitweiser. "But they didn't, so it was left to other people to make sure it got done. Undeniably the administration has dragged its feet."

In the past the White House has denied the charge, insisting it's cooperating with the commission. Yet even during hearings, that cooperation has seemed lackluster at best.

Unlike congressional inquiries, the commission's witnesses have not been asked to testify under oath. As a result, federal officials under Bush's command have not always been forthcoming. At their May 23 public hearing in Washington, commissioners were trying to piece together what, if any, defensive measures the government took on the morning of Sept. 11. Specifically, they wanted to know whether the military's North American Aerospace Defense Command, once notified by the Federal Aviation Administration, should have been able to scramble jets in order to intercept some of the hijacked aircraft. Yet 20 months after the attack, 9/11 commissioners still could not get straight answers from NORAD and FAA representatives who testified as to when the FAA notified NORAD about the wayward jets on the morning of 9/11.

Adding to the general confusion that day was baffling testimony by Secretary of Transportation Norman Mineta. "I don't think we ever thought of an airplane being used as a missile," he told the commissioners. But it was widely reported last year that several government studies had warned of just such a scenario.

For months, the commission was struggling to get by on a minuscule budget of $3 million. That low funding and the yearlong delay in creating the commission stand in stark contrast to previous panels formed to investigate momentous disasters in American history.

For instance, on April 15, 1912, the Titanic sank after hitting an iceberg, killing approximately 1,500 of its 2,200 passengers. According to historians, Titanic survivors began disembarking in New York at 10 o'clock on the night of April 18. The next morning at 10:30, a special panel of the Senate Commerce Committee was gaveled into session inside the ornate East Room of the Waldorf-Astoria Hotel in New York.

Last year, when Cheney called Daschle to urge him to limit any hearings into 9/11, the V.P. argued it would drain sources away from the war on terrorism. By contrast, just 11 days after Japanese bombers hit the U.S. with a sneak attack killing nearly 3,000 people, President Franklin D. Roosevelt signed an executive order creating a commission to "ascertain and report the facts relating to the attack made by Japanese armed forces upon the Territory of Hawaii on December 7, 1941 ... and to provide bases for sound decisions whether any derelictions of duty or errors of judgment on the part of United States Army or Navy personnel contributed to such successes as were achieved by the enemy on the occasion mentioned." It was the first of eight government-led investigations into the Pearl Harbor.

The Warren Commission, headed by Supreme Court Justice Earl Warren, was formed just seven days after President Kennedy was assassinated. Last February, after seven astronauts died when the Space Shuttle Columbia disintegrated 200,000 feet above Texas, NASA's Columbia Accident Investigation Board was created 90 minutes after the incident; $50 million was immediately set aside for the probe. And in just four months, the board has already made public significant findings about the crash investigation.

By contrast, nearly two years after the Sept. 11 attacks on the World Trade Center, the 9/11 commission only recently opened up its New York City office. The commission's budget has been increased to $14 million, but many experts say that's still far short of the sum needed to do the job right.

Given that perspective, there's a growing sense among some 9/11 advocates that the news media have let them -- and the nation -- down. "I'm very disappointed in the press," says Breitweiser. "I think it's disgusting the independent commission is doing the most important work for this nation and it's not even reported in the New York Times or on the nightly news. I've been scheduled to go on 'Meet the Press' and 'Hardball' so many times and I'm always canceled. Frankly I'd like nothing better than to go head to head with Dick Cheney on 'Meet the Press.' Because somebody needs to ask the questions and I don't understand why nobody is."

Among frustrated family members of Sept. 11 victims, there's a feeling they're losing the battle of time in their struggle to get answers from the Bush administration. "There's a very, very small window to effect changes," says one 9/11 widower, Bill Harvey. "And unfortunately, that window is closing."
 

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Phaedrus - Is this all you have to do? I wish I had as much free time as you do to copy and paste articles from other websites.

Don't you get tired of doing this? What is the purpose of all of these articles? If anyone actually cared enough to read these things don't you think they would go to the web sites themselves?


KMAN
 

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Bush not only knew about the 9-11 attacks beforehand, he was BEHIND them. They spent a long time preparing it and that's why it was so important for him to steal the election.

If the real truth ever came out, Bush knows that he would be tried and executed by a military tribunal.
 

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<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR> Don't you get tired of doing this? <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

No one should ever get tired of investigating why thousands of Americans died, or why it's being swept under the rug. Your "protect Bush at all costs" attitude is a slap in the face to all those who died and their families.
 

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B4L - Protect Bush at all cost?????? What the hell are talking about?

Just because I choose to believe our President because I think he has more information about what's going on than I do, I get labled as being a yes man for Bush.

Tell me this, why is it that every Liberal on this board claims to know more than the President yet they are here and he is where he is??????????????/


KMAN
 

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Did they fail? Yes. The question is WHY?

Because they were not allowed to do what has to be done to prevent something like 9-11.

The facts, Toricelli and the other leftist dems have rendered the CIA and FBI worthless. The CIA was not allowed to cultivate criminal informants.

Remember when the US caught ole Zach M. the FBI was not allowed to look at his computer because it would violate his rights. Turns out the info on the comp could have prevented 9-11.
Thanks ACLU.

The sudanese offered OBL on a silver platter 3 times before 9-11 to clintoon, clintoon stuck his head in the sand.

We can all thank the ACLU for the poor job done leading up to 9-11.

"Walter Williams is my hero" outandup 2002
 

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out, you're very artuflly avoiding the real issue here...an that is why is the Bush admin doing everything in its power to block, hinder and slow inquiries into the 9/11 intelligence failure. A responsible admin would have from Day One made it a priority to investigate everything imaginable to determine what caused the failure, who dropped the ball and what can be done in the future to make sure it doesn't happen again. Bush's failure to do so is all but an admission that he and his Admin has something to hide. This Admin is the most politically driven administration that I have ever seen. Clinton's is now a distant 2nd.
 

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It's obvious they did not get the job done.

They were not allowed to do their job. I'm not avoiding anything. I tackled the problem head on. We can blame people like Toricelli and Reno.

The FBI had Zach M. and they were not allowed to investigate the contents of his computer. That is one example as to why the FBI was handicapped. It's BS like that. Name one other country that would not have opened up the computer and checked it out. What a crock of shit.

"Walter Williams is my hero" outandup 2002
 

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<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>It's obvious they did not get the job done.

They were not allowed to do their job. I'm not avoiding anything. I tackled the problem head on. We can blame people like Toricelli and Reno.<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

Fine... if thats your theory, that the civil liberties people caused 9-11, then fine, you are entitled to that.

That still doesn't answer the question of why the Bush administration is trying to block an investigation.

Hell, you should want an investigation if you truly believe that the ACLU and friends are behind this! They would be uncovered and exposed, and you wouldn't sound like a facist nutjob anymore. Why wouldn't you want all of your ideas to be vindicated?
 

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It's useless to spend Millions investigating the FBI and CIA when it's so obvious what the problem was. They are getting the job done now and the necessary changes are being made.

Why bust their balls when they're in the middle of a war?

What good will it do? Bush is standing up for the troops, I don't see a problem with that.

"Walter Williams is my hero" outandup 2002
 

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allowed to look at the material on Zack Ms computer.

We don't need an investigation to show Toricelli made it policy that the CIA could not use criminals to obtain info.

These are the reasons why the CIA and FBI failed leading up to 9-11.

Is Toricelli, Clintoon or Reno going to pay for their policies that lead up to 9-11? NO, so why waste the time and money.

"Walter Williams is my hero" outandup 2002
 
I chose to believe that those who have a problem with the response to the "reaction" of the White House to 9/11 are those who "represent" the true victims of 9/11. Simply stated, the lawyers who represent the most compensated "victims" in U.S. criminal history (save maybe tobacco) are not satisfied and will stop at nothing in lining their pockets with the livelyhood and lifeblood of the survivors of 9/11. I say, "Screw the lawyers".
 

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KMAN wrote:

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Phaedrus - Is this all you have to do? I wish I had as much free time as you do to copy and paste articles from other websites.

Don't you get tired of doing this? What is the purpose of all of these articles? If anyone actually cared enough to read these things don't you think they would go to the web sites themselves?<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

Your stupidity truly knows no bounds, KMAN. Now you are saying that the purpose of a forum is not for the members to bring ideas, news, discussion etc. to the table that they consider noteworthy and meriting discussion.

If all anybody wanted to do was be a retarded Bush cheerleader like you, don't you think they'd all just go off and form their own site somewhere that they wouldn't have to be put in danger of other people's viewpoints?

B4L wrote:

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Bush not only knew about the 9-11 attacks beforehand, he was BEHIND them. They spent a long time preparing it and that's why it was so important for him to steal the election.

...

No one should ever get tired of investigating why thousands of Americans died, or why it's being swept under the rug. Your "protect Bush at all costs" attitude is a slap in the face to all those who died and their families.<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

Disagree on the first point, but I agree wholeheartedly on the second. There are a number of issues surrounding the September 11th attacks which have not been properly investigated or explored, and I think that the motivation is really that no one wants to look like the shitheel and end up getting the blame laid on himself. With 3,000 dead bodies on your hands, it's hardly a position anyone is lining up for, and you know the first person who can honestly have some real blame put on him is going to get it in every hole in a massive bukkake of blame designed to detract attention from anyone else culpable.

outandup wrote:

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Because they were not allowed to do what has to be done to prevent something like 9-11.

The facts, Toricelli and the other leftist dems have rendered the CIA and FBI worthless. The CIA was not allowed to cultivate criminal informants.

Remember when the US caught ole Zach M. the FBI was not allowed to look at his computer because it would violate his rights. Turns out the info on the comp could have prevented 9-11.

Thanks ACLU.

The sudanese offered OBL on a silver platter 3 times before 9-11 to clintoon, clintoon stuck his head in the sand.

We can all thank the ACLU for the poor job done leading up to 9-11.<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

At least you make some good points now and again. You should take KMAN and Jointpleasure under your wings, and Moxie for that matter, should it raise it's head again.

You have a point about the ankling of the CIA and FBI, and it is typical of Washington bureau-rats to do shit like that, and then turn around and blame the agencies when a problem arises.

Your comment on Moussaoui suprises me -- first I've heard that he had info on his computer that could have prevented the 9/11 attacks had it been brought to light. Not being a dick, but sincerely interested -- do you have any reputable source on this, or is it just the hyperbole in which you sometimes indulge?

With regards to Moussaoui: A very eloquent and germaine to the topic statement on this precept was made by the judge in the Richard Reid case. I will have to go find it, but in his final statement to Reid after the verdict was handed down, the judge said something to the effect of, "I hope that you remember your time here with the US legal system Mr. Reid, and that you realise that no matter how much you hate America and no matter how much we might frankly despise you, despite the fact that your guilt was a foregone conclusion by your own admission, you were given a chance here to tell your side of the events, to explain your motivations, and to have justice, rather than revenge, served upon you."

Mind you, those are my words and not the judges, but that is a close approximation.

People have rights here, outandup, plain and simple. You have them, I have them, and Zaccharias Moussaoui has them. Our country was founded on the notion of the primacy of equality before the law for all. It took more than a century of fine-tuning for our nation to evolve to the point where "all" did not just mean white men with land and good lawyers, but we were still ahead of the pack while the rest of the world foundered or even regressed. The symbolism of the classical image of Justice as being blindfolded and "armed" with nothing more than a scale with which to take measure of the situation has been all bt lost on modern Americans. Contrary to the verbiage in USA-PATRIOT and the wishes of AG Ashcroft, there are no valid "special circumstances" in which a person's essential liberties can simply be subjugated for the "greater good." Hindsight is always 20/20, and frankly, even if there was damning evidence on Moussaoui's computer there were numerous other clues to the impending disaster, the significance of which only became apparent with the benefit of hindsight (such as the flight school records for the hijackers.)

There are many things which might have arguably had a favourable impact on the events of 11 September 2001, some of which might agree with your views and some of which might not. There is no point in singling out your preferred enemies list for blame, when there are so many little things we could have done all along, such as:

1) Not assisting the Shah in overthrowing the Iranain power structure. This was simply dumb.

2) Refusing to support Israel after the Seven Days War. Requiring the Israelis to honour the agreed-upon borders for their state, under threat of losing the US' support, would have thwarted fully 99% of all Arab terrorist acts which have followed in the wake of the annexation of Gaza.

3) Reducing Tehran to a flat, glowing puddle once the hostages were successfully retrieved. After Carter's bungling botch job of the Iran Hostage Crisis, President Reagan could have -- and should have -- rung in his presidency by exacting a price on the Iranians so horrible that the rest of the Middle East would develop some efficient internal policing for a change, lest Riyadh, Beirut, Cairo et al were given similar plutonium enemas. Instead we got a decade-long, drawn out, expensive, lie-ridden war with an erstwhile ally whom we immediately decalred an enemy once Iran was ankled. And as an aside, perhaps the CIA would not have so many enemies in the Congress were it not for a little arms deal they set up with Iran during the same period that they were supposed to be our enemies.

4) Not setting up warlords in Afghanistan during the Soviet occupation, only to leave them floundering and at war with one another once the USSR crumbled (another <public service> brought to you by the poor, put-upon CIA. ) I might point out here another obvious fact, that Osama bin Laden was one of those very mujahideen that we empowered. Oops.

5) Not practicing an asinine double standard with regards to airline hijackers, one in which we say publicly, "We do not negotiate with terrorists," yet in fact pilots are restricted from carrying even non-lethal arms into the cockpit, and are instructed as SOP to cooperate with the demands of hijackers in the interest of overall safety. A stun gun or a can of mace on each pilot's belt could have saved nearly 3,000 lives that day.

6) Having the courage and strength of character to follow through on ALL policies, even the ones which cause our stomach to turn and give us nightmares for the rest of our lives. It has been standard policy since 1982 that if a plane was known to be hijacked, and it was 100% certain that total control was in the hands of the hijackers, and the hijackers did not follow instructions to land, then that plane is put down, no matter how many nuns and orphans and little fuzzy puppies are on board.

7) Embracing the few sparks of liberty which have managed to flicker in the Middle East, as in Dubai and in post-Khomeini Iran, rather than roundly ignoring them and only paying attention when there's a *problem* This was one thing I'll never forgive or forget with Clinton; him over in Asia giving rimjobs to the Vietnamese while Khatami all but begged for some help in getting the clerics out of control in Tehran. Unfortunately that window is closed and it will have to wait for the next one. Another will come eventually, but damn -- will we act on it or not?

So, there's forty-nine years worth of preventing 9/11 for you. Again, I fully acknowledge what an effective crystal ball hindsight is, and that being an armchair warrior is a lot easier than being a president, general, secretary of state, etc. But our elected leaders are supposed to be that -- leaders. And they simply are not, including the current one, whose only hope for hanging on to power is to sieze as much as possible from people under the "special needs" of homeland security, and whose potential asscheek-burning
at the hands of a 9/11 investigative panel is surely a motivation in his lack of any real pursuit of the truth of events. Do you not love your country? Does it not strike you as important that in the wake of the worst attack on our soil in history, that no stone should be left unturned in piecing together the events and seeing what could have been done differently? Not just in deference to the 3,000 but in defence of the nearly 300,000,000 left over, alive and wondering.


Phaedrus
 
Phaedrus, Your posts are well thought out, no doubt. Personally, I think "W"s response to 9/11 is more than satisfactory. With all due respect, you (and others) have mocked, demeaned, and chastised the response of Bush and his administration, to the threat that was placed at our doorstep. Most of the others, I can write off to "hanging chad" envy, but with your posts I am indeed intrigued. If you would, given what you know now, what would your reaction have been, as president of the u.s., in the wake of 9/11? And please, in the interests of humanity, don't wax poetic about a "peaceful" way of life for "most" Iraq's. Take into consideration the consequenses of Iraq's actually speaking untoward Saddam and his rigime.
 

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<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Phaedrus, Your posts are well thought out, no doubt. ... Most of the others, I can write off to "hanging chad" envy, but with your posts I am indeed intrigued.<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

Thanks for the props.

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>If you would, given what you know now, what would your reaction have been, as president of the u.s., in the wake of 9/11? And please, in the interests of humanity, don't wax poetic about a "peaceful" way of life for "most" Iraq's. Take into consideration the consequenses of Iraq's actually speaking untoward Saddam and his rigime.<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

Well, first off Iraq had nothing to do with the 9/11 terror attacks. No credible evidence has been presented to support this often-insinuated connection, not even by the most sycophantic Bush followers.

I have a lot of questions about 9/11, but very few of them revolve around Bush. My enormous level of criticism of Bush did not begin with 9/11, it began with the introduction of the Patriot Act. And even that criticism is not so much of Bush himself as it is of our Congress, who now openly admit that not one -- not a single lawmaker -- read the Patriot Act before voting on it.

In and of itself, this is insanity. You have a bill that you only have the gist of, when in fact the thing is huge (ever read it? It will take the better part of a day to do so, and that's if you already have enough legal education to get through it without having to stop and look up the many existing laws and court precedents cited) you have Dick Cheney having the temerity to stand before the Senate (you may not realise this, but the Vice President is "in charge" of the Senate and is responsible for tie-breaking and other issues) and say that anyone who asks to read the bill is a traitor, that anyone who wants to discuss the issue prior to voting on it is enabling terrorists, etc. You have all of this hideous grandstanding one would expect to see in, for example, a political forum like this one, but that one would expect elected men and women charged with the leadership of our great country to be able to rise above. And what happens? They vote on it, overwhelmingly.

Without even reading it.

What if it contained provisions to dissolve the Senate? Maybe it should have.

And of course the knee-jerk response from both sides of the fence is, "We were in a war situation, there was no time to think" but this is not true. The Congress is paid to think. They are supposed to think. They are supposed to sweat every little detail down to "i's and t's" because what they do is important, and effects every man, woman and child in this country (and often in other countries, since we can't just leave people alone like we should.)

Fast-forward a few months and here is where my real ire with President Bush comes up, when he addressed the Congress and the nation and informed -- not asked -- everyone that his new policy is to pre-emptively strike any nation he sees fit. If you have not read this policy, I recommend that you do, because the verbiage is very disturbing to any rational person. President Bush feels that it is justified to attack a nation not just because it is a threat to the United States and/or it's interests, not just because it threatens to (even if it is too remote or weak to do so) but even if it looks like they might become a threat in the future. Think about the concept for a moment. If the president or his advisors feel that the actions of a specific country might lead to a threat against America or it's interests, be they physical, economic, or military, we have the right to strike out at them, according to the administration policy. With the official implementation of this policy, President Bush has contravened one of the very basic principals upon which our country was founded, and plunged us right back into a Cold War the likes of which are unimaginable, because every single nation on Earth could potentially be our next target. There are no specific examples of what does and does not constitute a threat -- in fact, the inclusion of "economic interests" in the list of things which might be threatend opens the field of mercantile warfare a la the sixteenth-eighteenth centuries, except with some significantly more disastorus consequences given the "improvements" in military techonology since then.

We nearly ended up in a trade war with Canada over lumber tariffs, then with the EU over steel tariffs. Bush's actions in both of these incidents were hypocritical and despicable, engaging in one behaviour, then criticising another nation for the identical behaviour, then pandering to the WTO when things went against the US -- yet dismissing the WTO when it spoke out against us over the Canadian lumber tariffs. He did the same thing with the UN and Iraq, citing UN resolutions in justifying his attack, yet ignoring the UN's obvious wish to not engage Iraq militarily. Based on the policy enacted last year, if those things were going on now Bush would be justified (in his mind) running a blockade against the Canadian border, or rounding up European immigrants and visitors on trumped-up visa charges as has been done with those of Middle Eastern origin. Because of a perceived threat to American interests.

(the UN, WTO, and all other "world governance" bodies can suck me, btw. As Rep. Ron Paul has said repeatedly, we should pull out of all of them. But that's a long, rambling post for another time lol)

Getting back to the actual question, what do I think of Bush's specific responses to the September 11th attacks, on the day they happened, well -- in his shoes I would be shitting my pants, so it's hard to find fault. My own reaction to 9/11, as the events were unfolding, was to sit on my couch and stare in disbelief, then make about six million phone calls to friends in the New York area, trying to find out if they were okay. I lost one, I am sad to say, but it could have been worse -- I knew many people who worked in and around the WTC.

The chronicle of Bush's actions and reactions on 9/11 is very confusing, but I think that that day was a very, very confusing day. I do think that it would behoove Bush to get his staff to keep track of the shit he says so he can be consistent -- of course, as Kung Fu Tze wrote, "a man who tells the truth seldom has difficulty remembering what he said." There was a lot of conflicting news being put out on 9/11 -- that van bombers had hit the State Department and LAX, that there was some sort of attack at the Sears Tower and CNN Center in Atlanta, that Cheney was "missing," all kinds of stuff. There is no telling how many conflicting reports from the field the president was receiving, and he is in the end only human. It is his actions since then that have almost uniformly raised my ire; whether I like him or agree with him or not, he is supposed to be a leader to this country, not a bad actor throwing out whatever response seems expedient to the demands of the masses and the media. He is supposed to think things through, consult with his staff and colleagues (contrary to the retarded people's viewpoints, the president does not 'outrank' the Congress or the judiciary) and take well-reasoned actions to protect and otherwise benefit America during the short time he is afforded the honour of it's leadership.

There is a reason why we do not just hand that leadership role over to some shithead on a forum or in a bar who looks at CNN and says, "if I was president I'd make all them Muslimians leave this country right now, then nuke their countries for not appreciating all America has done for them!" The reason is, people without the ability or inclination to think things through prior to taking action, make demonstrably shitty leaders, whether you're talking about leading America or leading a middle school football team. The masses and the media put an enormous amount of pressure on the president and on other political figures to "just do something, do anything" and in that respect it is understandable that not all of their actions are going to be worthy of a Rhodes Scholar nomination; as I said earlier in this thread, hindsight is always 20/20 and it is a lot easier to be an armchair warrior than a president or other political leader. But Bush's actions since September 11th have demonstrated that he is not only either unwilling or unable to be a true leader to this country, but that he is also obsessed with his father's and his father's associates' vision of global hegemony, and I had quite enough of that the first go round.

Sorry for the insane, Joycean length and layout of this, but it's actually a pretty weighty subject. Believe it or not, I edited out entire paragraphs
icon_eek.gif



Phaedrus
 

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<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>And please, in the interests of humanity, don't wax poetic about a "peaceful" way of life for "most" Iraq's. Take into consideration the consequenses of Iraq's actually speaking untoward Saddam and his rigime.<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

The last three months have been harder on the Iraqi population than Saddam ever was.

Add to that the broken promises regarding turning control of the country back over to it's people, and Paul Bremer's recent dissolution of freedom of the press, and it's hard to understand how anyone can argue that any good is being done in Iraq, or that the Iraqi population appreciates all the *help* they're getting.

( a copy of Bremer's declaration bringing all media under the auspices of the Coalition government is available in PDF format here if you're interested. Fines up to US$ 1,000.00 and prison terms up to one year for speaking out against the Coalition government in print or on the air. Viva Liberdad!)

I agree wholeheartedly that Saddam Hussein is/was a power-mad dog for whom death would be too humane a treatment. But as history has shown repeatedly, a population that will not get off it's ass and liberate itself does not deserve to be liberated by another nation, and will not stay liberated for long (look at Afghanistan, just one year later.) Our own country liberated itself, with relatively little help from abroad, and most of that (as in the case of the French) more motivated by spite for the British than any love of liberty or concern for America's well-being. And, I think I can say with neither hyperbole nor patriotic bromide that the struggle we fought against Britain was far, far greater than that which a group of concerned citizens within Iraq would have faced against Saddam, or for that matter the Afghanis against the Taliban.

I say, repair the damage we have done, and pull out. We never should have gone in the first place -- the sheer rapidity with which Hussein's regime fell is the ultimate damnation of the false assertions by the Bush administration about the degree of "threat" Hussein and the Ba'ath regime posed to America or any other nation. It is time for an American leader to take responsibility for a mistake he has made, and make it right, for a change.


Phaedrus
 

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Razz - Did Phaedrus answer your question???

Didn't think so.

KMAN
 

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