Bush does his second good thing in 3 years - Ephedra ban on the way

[lander]

I tried this stuff briefly in college and no doubt it's some dangerous stuff (hence only the brief usage). Good move getting this crap off the shelves.

http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/3839574/

Ephedra ban
The Bush administration will ban the herbal weight-loss supplement ephedra from the marketplace Tuesday because of concerns about its effects on health, government officials said. • FULL STORY

RELATED STORY:
• More information on diet, nutrition

 

[PatPatriot]

Wrong again SLander....bad move by Bush...but it falls in line with your politics of a nanny state.

 

[lander]

I'm surprised that a guy in favor of sacrificing liberties in the name of the PATRIOT ACT and it's claimed security would be against protecting the youth of America from dangerous supliments

Are you against the "drug war" too?

 

[PatPatriot]

I am against the drug war...drugs should be leagalized.
I am against the Pat act also...it is without a doubt a slippery slope...but I agree with at least the concept of it under these unusual times....I am still waitng for some one to say they have been affected by this Act.

 

[lander]

A pro-drug neo-con

Are you sure you're not one of them "stupid liberals"

I think the PATRIOT ACT sets an extremely dangerous precendence. It theoretically has already effected all of us - from libraries, to NETeller, to banking and internet privacy.

 

[lander]

A bit more on the PATRIOT ACT from your friends at the ALCU.


The USA PATRIOT Act and related government actions undercut many important checks and balances on government law enforcement and intelligence powers.

Under this Act and other Administration actions that were taken without congressional involvement, the government can search your home without notifying you, can get a list of the books you have obtained from your library and your local bookstore and require your local librarian and bookseller to keep this hidden from you, can keep a file on how often you go to church, which churches you attend and the medications you use -- even if these activities have nothing to do with the fight against terrorism .

We should provide law enforcement with necessary tools to fight terrorism, but the USA PATRIOT Act and related government actions also gave the government many new powers that go beyond the fight against terrorism. Parts of the USA PATRIOT Act and other government actions take away checks on law enforcement and threaten the very rights and freedoms that we are waging the war on terror to protect.

This expansion of government powers has resulted in a significant groundswell from across the political spectrum -- resolutions opposing the PATRIOT Act have been passed in 136 communities and three states (representing approximately 16.5 million people).

Take Action! Urge your Members of Congress to support corrections to the USA PATRIOT Act and other domestic surveillance powers. Congress must act to ensure government powers adhere to the Bill of Rights.

The government can now use a special intelligence court to collect information about the books you read, your purchases and your personal finances.
Government agents can now obtain many types of your personal records -- educational, medical, financial, sales, library, etc. -- even if they have no probable cause of a crime. In fact, the PATRIOT Act prohibits the holders of that information, such as librarians, from disclosing that these records were turned over to the government.

The PATRIOT Act allows the government to search your home and not even tell you.
The law allows law enforcement agents to conduct secret "sneak and peek" searches of your home. Investigators can enter your home or office, take pictures and seize items without informing you that a warrant was issued for a very long time -- if ever.

Spying on innocent Americans.
The PATRIOT Act and changes to government investigative guidelines permit a vast array of information on U.S. citizens to be collected and shared with the CIA (and other non-law enforcement officials) without proper judicial oversight or other safeguards. This law effectively puts the CIA back in the business of spying on Americans.

http://www.aclu.org/SafeandFree/SafeandFree.cfm?ID=13081&c=206

 

[PatPatriot]

SLander...I am a conservative in the libertarian sense.
Leagalize drugs...just don't subsidize the junkies with my money and don't subsidize the rehab with my money...Don't blame me for the path an individual chooses.

I am off to work now...today I will be paying for all of everybodys horshit problems and will make nothing for myself for another day...Wheres my rights??

 

[D2bets]

Patriot, seems strange to me that a true libertarian would have been in favor of invading Iraq for the purpose of freeing the Iraqi people and establishing (we'll see) a Democratic govt. Obviously it wasn't for any national securty purposes. The only benefit was to the Iraqis themselves. Spending hundreds of billions of dollars to benefit the Iraqis -- isn't that worse than welfare for Americans?

 

[Phaedrus]

lander

How is this a good move?

-- People will still be able to obtain Ephedra, possibly with more ease than they can now, because there will be no ID requirements for young or young-looking buyers.

-- The price will go up, as is universally the case with any product driven into a black market situation by the state, and quality (or more precisely, the quality of consistency and therefore the relative safety) of the product will likely go down, as what few standards might be in place on legal manufacturers of Ephedra do not apply to illegal manufacturers.

-- The ban will be politicised by those who have vested interests in combatting the herbal drug industry, and used as citation for further prohibitions and regulations.

-- Because like all other prohibitions the ban will not remove one one-billionth of the contraband from the market, there will be calls for increased measures to empower law enforcement to breach privacy, property and general freedom of people (and since its a federal law, that means all people everywhere in the world, since the U.S. government is the de facto dictator of global policy.)

Really, what a silly, pointless law. It just shows how desperate Bush is for political capital; he'll sign anything that might gain him some popularity at the polls.


Phaedrus

 

[BoratSagdiyev]

I used to take this stuff called Ultimate Orange while in University. The stuff was awesome. Most people think "hey screw them, if I want to overdose and take stuff that will harm me it is my right". This holds true until you have children of your own. Thats why pot needs to be legalized in America. If the Government is going to tel you what's good for you then it needs to be placed in a different catagory from other so called hard drugs so that when they tell you other things are bad for you they will be more credible.

 

[lander]

"How is this a good move?"

-- People will still be able to obtain Ephedra, possibly with more ease than they can now, because there will be no ID requirements for young or young-looking buyers.
I bought Ephedra rich products in HS and later while at University and there was never a need to show ID. On the same hand, kids that want to buy illegal substance will - and they will be much mroe dangerous that Ephedra.

-- The price will go up, as is universally the case with any product driven into a black market situation by the state, and quality (or more precisely, the quality of consistency and therefore the relative safety) of the product will likely go down, as what few standards might be in place on legal manufacturers of Ephedra do not apply to illegal manufacturers.
Price goes up = less kids affording it. It's not a highly adictive drug like herione so this will not lead to a crime increase. The drug is unsafe - it can lead to caradiac arrest. This isn't a stretch - take the stuff and you'll know exactly what I'm talking about. I'm very anti-drug, but tried this shit on the recommendation of a long-time friend it is very dangerous. It's marketed as a "fitness supliment" when in fact all it does is increase your metabolism, and effectively your heart rate. When you go off the stuff you'll feel VERY lathargic even after a short period of time.

This was a dangerous misleading product that is now (and rightful so) getting taken off the shelves.

-- The ban will be politicised by those who have vested interests in combatting the herbal drug industry, and used as citation for further prohibitions and regulations.
Perhaps, but it's a side-effect that is well worth the ban IMO.

-- Because like all other prohibitions the ban will not remove one one-billionth of the contraband from the market, there will be calls for increased measures to empower law enforcement to breach privacy, property and general freedom of people (and since its a federal law, that means all people everywhere in the world, since the U.S. government is the _de facto_ dictator of global policy.)
I believe that your prediction are highly inaccurate. The people I knew that took it were healthy people. People that took care of their bodies, people that thought that this legal product would help them and most importantly they are people that do not abuse their bodies with harmful drugs. This is a very specific audience that was effected, and in large part and audience that would not have used the product had they known the risks.

Really, what a silly, pointless law. It just shows how desperate Bush is for political capital; he'll sign anything that might gain him some popularity at the polls.
Seems I'm the only one that is happy with this move, so I'd venture to guess that he did it because he felt it was the right thing to do.

Just my opinion fellas, but it's a great law.

 

[TheFunkMonkey]

The ephedra ban is a joke. Every 1-2 years, there is a "hot" new supplement/drug/herb on the market. And sooner or later there is a freak death/accident, and then people want to ban the product. Happened with creatine, happened with Red Bull, happened with Andro, happened with ephedra.

The government could probably save more lives by banning bacon and sausage instead of wasting their time banning nutritional supplements that won't be popular in a couple years anyway.

 

[lander]

Have you ever taken ephedra?

 

[TheFunkMonkey]

Hundreds of times. Haven't used it much lately. Long-term, I don't think it is worth the money. But from time to time, I'll use it for a couple weeks.

I'll admit, ephedra does have side-effects. Gives you the jitters, increases your heart-rate, etc. But ephedra is a stimulant, and that's what stimulants are SUPPOSED to do!

There are tons of products on the market that are more harmful than ephedra. But those products/industries tend to have more political clout than the ephedra industry.

As for Steve Belcher, keep in mind that:

He was overweight and out of shape.
He was not yet accustomed to the warm, humid weather in Florida.
He was on a diet, primarily liquid or semi-liquid.
He didn't feel well (or eat) the night before he collapsed.
He had high blood pressure and abnormal liver functions.

I'm not saying that ephedra is a miracle drug. As I said, I don't think it is worth the money long-term. However, I also don't think ephedra deserves all the negative publicity it has received. I think the media/public has been using ephedra as a scapegoat.

 

[TheFunkMonkey]

All of this reminds me of the creatine scare a couple years ago...back when creatine was the supplement you "had" to have. Couple wrestlers supposedly died from creatine. Right...because I'm sure it had nothing to do with adding/dropping weight, running through steam showers, wearing latex suits during exercise, extreme diet changes, etc...but creatine was blamed @ first because creatine was a trendy topic.

"Creatine was not involved in the deaths of those wrestlers. Heightened attention developed with reported suspicions that one of three wrestlers who died suddenly in the winter of 1997 of heat exhaustion, dehydration and/or heart failure after intense workouts in a hot environment, in an attempt to lose weight rapidly, may have used Creatine (Associated Press December 19th, 1997, Muscle building supplement to be investigated in wrestlers’ deaths). The FDA issued a report containing the conclusion that Creatine had been ruled out as a primary factor in the death of these wrestlers (Associated Press April 30th,1998, FDA rejects Creatine role in deaths)."

 

[areeff]

Why must you make yourself so foolish.

Aspirin kills more people a year than ephedra in the last studies i read.

Ephedra rocks. It like the middle ground between Caffeine and Cocaine.

Why do you want it banned? beacuse some sports stars died? VERY few people die from this. I'd wager without looking that more people die from things like bee stings and peanut allergies each year than ephedra.. Let's ban peanuts while we're at it..



How is ephedra not worth the money long term? Ma Huang bottled is about 6$ and a package of mini thins is about 6$

 

[lander]

I'm sorry that you feel supporting a ban against a product that over-stimulates one's heart rate and could have fatal side effect is "foolish". On top of the stated it's also clear that the target audience for most of the ephedra products where high school and college kids.

I want it banned because I know first hand what a fuked up product it is, and keeping it legal falsely implies to potential users that the product is safe.

As for your comparisions -- they're, well, assinine. Aspirin saves more lives than it takes whereas ephedra does not.

Perhaps I would have avoided looking foolish has I made a more compelling argument such as "ephedra doesn't rock"?

[This message was edited by lander on January 05, 2004 at 09:31 AM.]

 

[Massmilwaukee]

God Damn It!!! One fat baseball player dies from using ephedra and the FDA decides to uphold Congress’s decision to ban it. What the @!#$ kind of shit is this?? I am being told that since one baseball player, mind you not an athlete, didn’t follow the supplement facts on the side of the bottle and chose to swallow 5 times more than the serving size, I too will be stupid enough to become 35lbs overweight, dehydrate myself, run over 2 miles with a heat index of 105 degrees and die of a ****ing heat stroke.
Oh Tommy, please save me you piece of shit. I am too ****ing stupid to follow directions, stay in shape, or know my own limitations. Please Tommy, you fat piece of shit, do protect me…

 

[Jointpleasure]

The frickin FDA is as bad as any government agency. These guys are truly retarded. Run by the AMA and the pharmaceutical companies. Huge lobbying groups in Washington.

The history of medicine is full of setbacks and about faces. But as long as the docs where a long white coat so many of us are intimidated for many are truly ignorant in regards to what health is and what it isn't.

So just keep taking your cholesterol lowering drugs and get of the ephedra. Do I see another about face coming?

 

[Phaedrus]

This just in.


Phaedrus