Breaking - Balco testimony - Bonds not implicated

wilheim · Dec 2, 2004

Jason Giambi admitted to a federal grand jury he took steroids and human growth hormone in 2003, according to transcripts of testimony obtained by the San Francisco Chronicle and published in the newspaper's Thursday editions.

The New York Yankees slugger's admission in December 2003 contradicts denials he has made since then that he never took performance-enhancing drugs.

But in the testimony obtained by the Chronicle, the former American League MVP told the grand jury investigating the Bay Area Laboratory Co-Operative steroids case he used steroids obtained from Greg Anderson, the personal trainer for San Francisco Giants star Barry Bonds.

Giambi did not implicate Bonds in his testimony; he pointed out that Anderson was secretive about who he was working for and what he was doing to help other professional athletes.

In the transcripts obtained by the Chronicle, Assistant U.S. Attorney Jeffrey Nedrow asked Giambi, "Did [Anderson] ever say, 'Don't be talking about getting stuff from me?' "

"That's what I mean by saying that he made it so, you know, private, that you know, 'Hey, don't say anything, don't talk about anything,' " Giambi told the grand jury. "You know, I assumed because he's Barry's trainer -- you know, Barry -- but he never said one time, 'This is what Barry's taking, this is what Barry's doing.' He never gave up another name that he was dealing with or doing anything with."

Bonds, a seven-time National League MVP, has denied using steroids and other performance-enhancing drugs.

Giambi's younger brother Jeremy, a former Oakland outfielder, also told the grand jury he injected banned drugs received from Anderson, the Chronicle reported.

Both Giambis said they had used steroids even earlier in their baseball careers. They were granted immunity from prosecution if they told the truth to the grand jury, but faced perjury charges if they did not.

Jason Giambi described to the grand jury how -- using syringes -- he injected human growth hormone into his stomach and testosterone into his buttocks.

Giambi called the products he obtained from Anderson "undetectable" steroids known as "the clear" and "the cream."

"The clear" is a liquid drug administered under the tongue a few drops at a time. "The cream" was described as a testosterone-based balm rubbed onto the body, the Chronicle reported.

Giambi said he obtained all the drugs -- and syringes -- except human growth hormone from Anderson. Giambi said he got the human growth hormone at a Gold's Gym in Las Vegas.

Giambi testified Anderson sent him several different drugs, including testosterone, "the cream" and "the clear." Giambi added Anderson gave him advice on the use of human growth hormone.

"Did Mr. Anderson provide you with actual injectable testosterone?" Assistant U.S. Attorney Nedrow asked Giambi.

"Yes," replied Giambi.

Then, in reference to an alleged steroid calendar from January 2003, Nedrow asked, "OK. And this injectable T, or testosterone, is basically a steroid, correct?"

"Yes," Giambi replied

"And did he talk to you about the fact it was a steroid at the time?" Nedrow asked.

"Yeah, I mean, I -- I don't know if we got into a conversation about it, but we both knew about it, yes," Giambi told the grand jury.

Giambi said Anderson described "the cream" and "the clear" as "an alternative to steroids, but it doesn't show on a steroid test.

"And he started talking about that it would raise your testosterone levels, you know, which would basically make it a steroid & or maybe he said it's an alternative of taking an injectable steroid. That might be a better way to put it."

Bonds brought Anderson on a barnstorming players' tour of Japan after the big-league season in 2002. Giambi said it was on that November trip he met the trainer.

In his testimony, Giambi said he asked Anderson about the things Bonds was doing to stay at an elite level.

"So I started to ask him: 'Hey, what are the things you're doing with Barry? He's an incredible player. I want to still be able to work out at that age and keep playing,' " Giambi testified. "And that's how the conversation first started."

According to the transcripts obtained by the Chronicle, Giambi testified he called Anderson after their return from overseas and then flew to the San Francisco area in either late November or early December to meet at a gym down the street from BALCO in Burlingame, Calif.

Giambi said the two went to a hospital for Giambi to provide blood and urine samples, which were then taken to BALCO.

According to the transcripts obtained by the Chronicle, Giambi said he and Anderson then began discussing various performance-enhancing drugs Anderson could supply. Also, when Anderson received the results of Giambi's blood and urine tests, Anderson told him he had tested positive for Deca DurabolinDeca-Durobolin -- a steroid Giambi said he had obtained from the Las Vegas gym -- and that he should discontinue its use because it could stay in his system a long time.

Giambi said Anderson assured him the drugs he provided in baseball's offseason would be out of his system before Giambi was called for a steroid test.

Giambi, a four-time All-Star who played his first seven seasons in Oakland, has been unable to duplicate his 2000 MVP success in three seasons with the Yankees. Giambi signed a seven-year, $120 million contract with the Yankees after the 2001 season.

He played with a knee injury in 2003 and missed more than half the 2004 season with an intestinal parasite and a benign tumor that reportedly was on his pituitary gland. The unusual ailments led many to question whether they were steroid related, but Giambi continued to deny ever taking steroids.

The Chronicle also reported Giambi testified he helped his younger brother obtain drugs from Anderson.

Jeremy Giambi told the grand jury Anderson described "the clear" and "the cream" as undetectable "alternatives to steroids."

"For all I knew, it could have been baby lotion," Jeremy Giambi told the grand jury.

ESPN.com

jeffry22 · Dec 2, 2004

After reading the story - dont you think the headline "bonds not implicated" is a little misleading?

wilheim · Dec 2, 2004

Jeffry I did not want to jump the gun. Giambi clearly states Bonds was never mentioned by Anderson.

but he never said one time, 'This is what Barry's taking, this is what Barry's doing.' He never gave up another name that he was dealing with or doing anything with."

If Bonds is involved it is bound to come out, I just did not want to sound like the National Inquirer. I am in no way trying to protect Bonds or anyone else.

wil.

jjgold · Dec 2, 2004

I wonder why Giambi was so good for a while

I still do not think though that why he was sick afterwards

PanchoSanza · Dec 2, 2004

jeffry22 said:
After reading the story - dont you think the headline "bonds not implicated" is a little misleading?

Agreed, give me a break, Bonds is so dirty it ain't funny anymore.

Journeyman · Dec 2, 2004

Why didn't pot smoking Jeremy Giambi take them? :smoker2:

jjgold · Dec 2, 2004

I would love to get my hands on test cream

It builds muscle great and pretty safe if you use it right

RobFunk · Dec 2, 2004

Breaking - Balco testimony - Bonds not implicated

With all due respect: you're off rocker, Mr. Hiem.

Giambi stating the steriods came from Bond's trainer automatically implicates him. You don't think so?

wilheim · Dec 2, 2004

Giambi stating the steriods came from Bond's trainer automatically implicates him.

I am using the novel concept that a man is innocent until proven guilty. I know most fans are rooting for Bonds to be guilty, personally I say wait and see before we asterik him.

wil.

charleslanger · Dec 2, 2004

I like to be fair also, but Bonds being clean is highly,highly improbable.

He put in way too much bulk all of a sudden, as McGwire did. & having that trainer besides team trainer-- for what? & such a convo never took place between them? Highly unlikely, & then why be associated with such a character, which could only bring a clean player loads of trouble?

RobFunk · Dec 2, 2004

wilheim said:
I am using the novel concept that a man is innocent until proven guilty. I know most fans are rooting for Bonds to be guilty, personally I say wait and see before we asterik him.

wil.

appreciate the response. I agree partially, but naming Bonds's trainer from a steriod user raises a serious red flag to me.

there is a chance that his trainer only provided to other guys and not Barry, so you are right. Bonds has stayed virtually injury free, so that is a non-steriod plus in his collum.

TheGeneral+ · Dec 2, 2004

Thanks for the story Wil and Like you, I'll await the final verdict.

wilheim · Dec 2, 2004

If anyone has the time - the entire article from SF Chronicle

New York Yankees star Jason Giambi told a federal grand jury that he had injected himself with human growth hormone during the 2003 baseball season and had started using steroids at least two years earlier, The Chronicle has learned.

Giambi has publicly denied using performance-enhancing drugs, but his Dec. 11, 2003, testimony in the BALCO steroids case contradicts those statements, according to a transcript of the grand jury proceedings reviewed by The Chronicle.

The onetime Oakland A's first baseman and 2000 American League Most Valuable Player testified that in 2003, when he hit 41 home runs for the Yankees, he had used several different steroids obtained from Greg Anderson, weight trainer for San Francisco Giants star Barry Bonds.

In his testimony, Giambi described how he had used syringes to inject human growth hormone into his stomach and testosterone into his buttocks. Giambi also said he had taken "undetectable" steroids known as "the clear" and "the cream" -- one a liquid administered by placing a few drops under the tongue, the other a testosterone-based balm rubbed onto the body.

The 33-year-old Yankee said Anderson had provided him with all of the drugs except for human growth hormone, which he said he had obtained at a Las Vegas gym. Anderson also provided him syringes, Giambi said.

Agent Arn Tellem, who accompanied Giambi and his younger brother, Jeremy, to the grand jury, did not return calls seeking comment. Other efforts to reach the Giambis were unsuccessful.

Anderson has denied wrongdoing in the BALCO case. His attorney, J. Tony Serra, declined comment, citing a court order aimed at preserving the secrecy of grand jury proceedings.

The Giambis were among more than two dozen elite athletes summoned to San Francisco last year to testify in the federal investigation centered on the Bay Area Laboratory Co-Operative, a Burlingame nutritional business suspected of distributing "designer" steroids to elite athletes. In February, the grand jury indicted Anderson, BALCO founder Victor Conte and two other men on charges of conspiracy to distribute steroids and money laundering. They have pleaded not guilty.

Jeremy Giambi, a former A's outfielder who spent 2004 with the minor league Las Vegas 51s, also told the BALCO grand jury that he had injected banned drugs received from Anderson, according to a transcript of his testimony.

Both Giambis testified that they had already used steroids before they met Anderson or heard of BALCO, and they said they were drawn to the trainer because of Bonds' success.

Bonds has denied using steroids and other performance-enhancing drugs.

Jason Giambi hit 94 home runs in three seasons with the Yankees. But he played in fewer than half the team's games this year, reportedly ill with an intestinal parasite and a benign tumor on his pituitary gland. His ties to BALCO fueled speculation that his illness was related to steroid use, but he told reporters in August that there was no connection.

In front of the grand jury, the Giambi brothers were instructed that they had been granted immunity from prosecution if they told the truth but faced perjury charges if they lied.

In his testimony, Jason Giambi told the grand jury he had used the injectable steroid Deca Durabolin "two years ago" -- that is, in 2001, his last year with Oakland -- after obtaining the drug from a source at a Gold's Gym in Las Vegas.

Giambi said he had met Anderson in November 2002, when Bonds brought the trainer to join a group of big-leaguers on a barnstorming tour of Japan.

Giambi said he had queried Anderson about Bonds' workout and health regimens.

"So I started to ask him: 'Hey, what are the things you're doing with Barry? He's an incredible player. I want to still be able to work out at that age and keep playing,' " Giambi testified. "And that's how the conversation first started."

Giambi said Anderson had suggested getting his blood tested for mineral deficiencies and taking supplements to counter those shortages; it was a snapshot description of the legitimate business BALCO performed for athletes.

Giambi called Anderson upon returning to the States, then flew to the Bay Area in late November or early December 2002 and met him in Burlingame at a gym down the street from BALCO, he told the grand jury. From there, the two men went to a hospital for Giambi to provide blood and urine samples, which were taken to BALCO, Giambi testified.

Either during that meeting or in a phone conversation shortly thereafter, Giambi said, Anderson began discussing various performance-enhancing drugs he could provide the ballplayer. Also, when Anderson received the results of Giambi's blood and urine tests, Anderson told him he had tested positive for Deca Durabolin, the steroid Giambi said he had obtained at the Las Vegas gym. Giambi said Anderson had warned him to stop using it, saying it could stay in his system a long time.

At the time, baseball was implementing its first-ever steroids-testing program at the major-league level, during the 2003 season. It is illegal to obtain steroids or human growth hormone without a doctor's prescription.

During his testimony, the 10-year veteran described how Anderson had begun sending him several different performance-enhancers, including a batch of injectable testosterone, "the cream" and "the clear." Giambi also testified that Anderson had advised him about the use of the human growth hormone he had obtained at the gym in Las Vegas.

Anderson kept him supplied with drugs through the All-Star break in July 2003, Giambi said. He said he had received a second and final batch of testosterone in July but opted not to use it because he had a knee injury and "didn't want to do any more damage."

"Did Mr. Anderson provide you with actual injectable testosterone?" Assistant U.S. Attorney Jeffrey Nedrow asked Giambi.

"Yes," replied Giambi.

Nedrow then referred Giambi to an alleged calender of drug use seized during a raid on Anderson's home. Addressing a January 2003 entry, the prosecutor said: "OK. And this injectable T, or testosterone, is basically a steroid, correct?"

"Yes."

"And did he talk to you about the fact it was a steroid at the time?"

"Yeah, I mean, I -- I don't know if we got into a conversation about it, but we both knew about it, yes," Giambi told the grand jury.

Giambi said Anderson described "the cream" and "the clear" as "an alternative to steroids, but it doesn't show on a steroid test.

"And he started talking about that it would raise your testosterone levels, you know, which would basically make it a steroid ... or maybe he said it's an alternative of taking an injectable steroid," Giambi said. "That might be a better way to put it."

Giambi also described for the grand jury how he had injected the testosterone and human growth hormone, which he said Anderson told him he could provide if Giambi couldn't get it elsewhere.

The growth hormone was taken "subcutaneous ... so like you would pinch the fat on your stomach" and inject the substance just below the skin, Giambi testified.

Asked whether the same were true for testosterone, Giambi told the prosecutor that it called for a regular injection.

"So, you would put it in your arm?" Nedrow asked.

"No, you wouldn't," Giambi said. "You'd put it in your ass."

Giambi said he wasn't worried about testing positive for testosterone because he had only taken the drug during the off-season, and Anderson assured him it would be out of his system before he was called for a steroid test.

Nedrow also asked Giambi about several different-colored pills Anderson provided; they were denoted on calendars as "Y" for yellow, "W" for white and "O" for orange, according to the ballplayer. Giambi testified that he didn't know what the pills were, though he thought the white one might have been Clomid, a female fertility drug that can enhance the effectiveness of testosterone. His use of the drug was reflected on a calendar, the prosecutor said.

"I don't know what they were," Giambi testified. "He didn't really explain them. He just had told me to take them. And it had -- he explained it has something to do with the system. ... He just said to take it in conjunction with all the stuff."

Giambi said Anderson had led him to believe that he was among a select few athletes dealing with the trainer. He made it "sound like I even needed a lottery ticket to even talk to him about it," Giambi said.

"Did he ever say, 'Don't be talking about getting stuff from me?' " asked Nedrow.

"That's what I mean by saying that he made it so, you know, private, that you know, 'Hey, don't say anything, don't talk about anything,' " Giambi told the grand jury. "You know, I assumed because he's Barry's trainer -- you know, Barry -- but he never said one time, 'This is what Barry's taking, this is what Barry's doing.' He never gave up another name that he was dealing with or doing anything with."

Giambi said he had spent somewhere between $7,000 and $10,000 on performance-enhancers provided by the trainer.

Toward the end of his grand jury testimony, which followed a 2003 season in which he nursed the knee injury and hit just .250, Giambi was asked, "Had this all not become public, would you still be using?"

"I didn't actually notice a huge difference, to be honest with you," Giambi answered. "I, of course, got injured this year. So, that's not a fair assessment, either. Maybe, yes, no, I don't know."

Finally, Nedrow asked Giambi whether Anderson had done anything to help the player with his weight-training regimen "or was it more on these things?"

Said Giambi: "It was more on these things."

Giambi, a five-time All-Star, played his first seven seasons in Oakland, emerging as one of the game's top stars. After the 2001 season, the 6-foot-3-inch, 235-pound slugger signed a seven-year, $120 million contract with the Yankees. Two months after testifying before the grand jury, Giambi reported to spring training this year looking considerably thinner, though he insisted he had lost just four pounds.

There was speculation that the weight loss stemmed from Giambi's stopping the use of steroids. Asked by reporters during spring training whether he ever used performance-enhancing drugs, Giambi said, "Are you talking about steroids? No."

Steroids talk swirled around Giambi again when he was sidelined during the season by mysterious ailments: first a reported intestinal parasite, then the tumor. Both he and the Yankees were tight-lipped about the tumor, refusing to disclose its location or treatment.

The New York Daily News reported Sept. 3 that the tumor was in his pituitary gland, which is at the base of the brain, and that Giambi's secrecy had stemmed from fears that news about the diagnosis would lead to further speculation about steroid use. Medical experts told The Chronicle that Clomid, the female fertility drug that Giambi was questioned about, can exacerbate a tumor of the pituitary gland. The drug's label warns physicians not to prescribe Clomid to patients with pituitary tumors.

Giambi ultimately played in only 80 games during the season and was left off the postseason roster. He finished with a .208 batting average, 12 home runs and 40 runs batted in.

Giambi also testified that he had helped his younger brother Jeremy, who played with the A's from 2000 to 2002, to obtain drugs from Anderson.

Jeremy Giambi's testimony mirrored his brother's -- right down to Anderson's notifying him that he had tested positive for the steroid Deca Durabolin. Jeremy Giambi described to the grand jury how he had injected human growth hormone and testosterone he received from the trainer before the start of the 2003 season, when he played for the Boston Red Sox.

The younger Giambi testified that he knew testosterone was a steroid but that Anderson had described "the clear" and "the cream" only as undetectable "alternatives to steroids."

"For all I knew, it could have been baby lotion," Jeremy Giambi told the grand jury.

Jeremy Giambi, 30, also told the grand jury that he had taken several different-colored pills provided by Anderson even though he didn't know what they were.

Nedrow asked Jeremy Giambi why he trusted Anderson.

"I don't know, I guess -- I mean, you're right," Jeremy Giambi testified. "I probably shouldn't have trusted the guy. But I just felt like, you know, what he had done for Barry and, you know, I didn't think the guy would send me something that was, you know, Drano or something, you know, I mean, I hope he wouldn't."

Nedrow suggested Jeremy Giambi probably also trusted Anderson's drugs because his brother had taken them, too. Said Jeremy: "Yeah, and Jason didn't die."

<HR align=left SIZE=1>[font=geneva,arial]- Mark Fainaru, Wanda and lance Williams SF Chronicle Staff
[/font][font=geneva,arial][size=-2]Thursday, December 2, 2004
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RobFunk · Dec 2, 2004

innocent who knows that is too far ahead

but implicated? ya bonds is as implicated as it gets. ive read and heard it enough from the grand jury testimony fall out.

why back a guy who does drugs?

i dont get it. artest defend self thats bad. bonds shove syringe in his ass look the other way

set an example for me

PanchoSanza · Dec 2, 2004

wilheim said:
I am using the novel concept that a man is innocent until proven guilty. I know most fans are rooting for Bonds to be guilty, personally I say wait and see before we asterik him.

wil.

Wil,

The only way that these guys will be "proven guily" are through their own admission or through a positive test.

Are you saying if neither of these occur, you would then say Bonds is innocent? :icon_conf

wilheim · Dec 2, 2004

Pancho - I am not saying Bonds is guilty or innocent, simply that he was not implicated by Giambi. Is there a possibility he never used steroids - of course there is, is there a possibility that he is guilty as hell - of course there is. The burden of proof lies with first the Federal prosecuters and 2nd with baseball itself. Guilt by association is the only connection apparent right now (Anderson) both Giambi and Bonds know Anderson. Bottom line we are only talking about a thread title, I could have easily left off any reference to Bonds or said for example Sheffield not implicated instead. Let the case play itself out and then let the chips fall where they may. Quite frankly I have never been a Barry Bonds fan but don't feel I have enough facts to say he is guilty of the infractions Giambi has confessed to. Let Barry come up with a dirty drug screen or even better - a confession and then things will take on a much clearer focus. Right now everything regarding Bonds drug use is pure supposition, people say of course he used steroids look at the size of him, or he must have look at McGuire or Sosa, all this is supposition by the public.

wil.

jjgold · Dec 2, 2004

We all know he is guilty but he covered his tracks well and Bonds will give some huge sum to Balco owner when it is all over for keeping him out of it