Strike and out have the same mechanic. When a guy swings through a pitch, you signal strike, but don't say anything out loud. When a strike three is dropped, but clearly swung at, I signal safe, but don't give the strike mechanic, in order to avoid confusion. But you are in such a habit of signaling strike that you do it sometimes in that situation. But it was never an out signal. The first signal that was made was "no catch."camy said:
What did his safe signal look like? All I remember him doing is clenching his fist, which I always believed was the out sign. If it was not a clean catch, then you would not clench your fist. You would wait for the catcher to tag or throw to first, and then clench your fist. I need a replay. I guess I'll see plenty of those soon enough.
He stuck his arm out like a safe signal. Watch and you'll see it. See, the problem is that sometimes, even if it's not caught, the umpire has to signal strike 3, by making a fist. Because if it's a check swing, it's a ball until the umpire calls it a swing. So strike 3 does not mean out. A lot of things can go on at the same time that are confusing. That is why I try to not signal a strike, if it is obvious that he swung at it. But it's not wrong if you do.camy said:
Ok, everything you are saying makes sense. I did not see the safe sign. I will look for it if they show the whole replay. Thanks for explaining to pissed Angel bettor. I believe the ump should always give the catcher the benefit of the doubt, especially when the batter could have been easily tagged out. How can you create controversy like this and be totally wrong? All I needed to see was a speck of dirt being kicked up by the ball, and I would have never opened my mouth. Catchers will be tagging people unnecessarily forever now. I bet they tag every batter now, even on clean catches.
The thing is, TECHNICALLY, it might have been the right call. Maybe a speck of dirt flew up, and he trapped it. But after 10 replays, I'm not even sure either way. It may sound funny, but you really let the players call these kinds of plays. Like when a pitch hits around the batter's wrist or bat. If he reacts like it hit his hand, and he's hurt, then it's a Hit By Pitch. If he doesn't it's a foul ball. Or you call it off sound when you can't see it. Aluminum ping....probably a foul ball. Umpire couldn't see that, because the catcher is blocking him. So really, he should have read the catcher, bought the catch, and called him out. Nobody in the park would have said a word. The umpire's main mistake is that he called it too quick, and then couldn't change his call. If he waits and reads the players, he probably doesn't even need to make a call.camy said:
ILLINI's explanation matches my own experience as a baseball umpire (kids through mens amateur).
The initial sign was a downward slash of the right hand, which indicates "bounced pitch", followed by a short pumped fist motion which is "Strike Three" (not Ball four...which was the other possibility on that particular pitch).
Angels catcher blew the play, plain and simple. Sucks to put it on him, but he's the one who "tossed" the game away with his careless response.
Every catcher is trained to ALWAYS tag the runner if there's ANY doubt.
The ump may have misread the bounce, but his actions following were consistent with a decision that's what he saw.
He didn't reverse anything.
The initial sign was a downward slash of the right hand, which indicates "bounced pitch", followed by a short pumped fist motion which is "Strike Three" (not Ball four...which was the other possibility on that particular pitch).
Angels catcher blew the play, plain and simple. Sucks to put it on him, but he's the one who "tossed" the game away with his careless response.
Every catcher is trained to ALWAYS tag the runner if there's ANY doubt.
The ump may have misread the bounce, but his actions following were consistent with a decision that's what he saw.
He didn't reverse anything.
ne of the worst calls in a playoff game i ever saw
He was wrong, and careless.
TAG EVERY batter after a low swinging third strike with first base open.
He may have been "right" that he thought it was a clean grab, but he was wrong to not tag the runner without hearing the OUT call.
Tough for all of us.
I had the Hose on RL, so I needed that last ball to go out and it JUST MISSED.
Steve
TAG EVERY batter after a low swinging third strike with first base open.
He may have been "right" that he thought it was a clean grab, but he was wrong to not tag the runner without hearing the OUT call.
Tough for all of us.
I had the Hose on RL, so I needed that last ball to go out and it JUST MISSED.
Steve
