Belichick Genius or Foolish?

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For all the talk and hype about what a genius Bill Belichick is Sunday is an example of that persona being his undoing. Before the Baltimore game I brought up the point that with Belichick you get someone who does odd things that can lead to defeat as he tries to show that genius.

To let the Giants score uncontested could and should be viewed as questionable. If you hit the runner and try for the take away you may get the ball. If you prevent the TD you leave the kicker trying for the game winner under extreme pressure. A block, a band snap, a boxed hold or a just plain old shank are all possibilitys. Ask Boller how easy it is to choke.

It’s one thing to let the other team score when you’re losing and need the ball but NE was winning. The pressure was on the Giants, any mistake and they lose but when the other team hands it to you what could be easier?

The fact that call isn't really being discussed is an example of the "emporer's new clothes" no body wants to be the one to question the Genius.
 

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that was a good call on his part, just stop. If you hate BB, so be it

if Bradshaw goes down all the Giants need to do is kick an extra point for the win and Brady never gets the ball back. He was trying to give Tom some time, as little as it was, and Bradshaw never fumbles
 

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BB's big mistake was throwing the flag on a play that happened right in front of him. That cost him a valuable time out. He got breaks when Nix ran out of bounds and when Bradshaw failed to play possum. He was damned lucky to have gotten another chance at all actually. When a game pivots on so many plays it is hard to fault anyone. In the end Brady made a poor choice and a worse throw to Big G also. His throw to Welker could have been better also although Welker would probably say he should have had it. BB is predictable though. The best prop bet would have been who would get the ball first since NE always defers.
 

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Believe it or not, this is the 2nd time I've seen Bill B. do the same thing. Ironically, both times a Manning was involved.

I'm not sure of the exact game, but it must have been when they were playing the Colts in the playoffs. He let Peyton score quickly so that Brady could get the ball back with time left to get the Pats a winning TD. Didn't work that time either. I think it was the last time that the Colts went to a SB.
 

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BB's big mistake was throwing the flag on a play that happened right in front of him. That cost him a valuable time out. He got breaks when Nix ran out of bounds and when Bradshaw failed to play possum. He was damned lucky to have gotten another chance at all actually. When a game pivots on so many plays it is hard to fault anyone. In the end Brady made a poor choice and a worse throw to Big G also. His throw to Welker could have been better also although Welker would probably say he should have had it. BB is predictable though. The best prop bet would have been who would get the ball first since NE always defers.

Exactly right. If you look at the replay, he wasn't even looking down to see if Nicks had control of the ball. They desperately needed that time out. But then, with Hernandez and Welker both dropping passes on that critical last drive, no matter how you analyze it, it just wasn't in the cards for the Pats to win. They both needed to catch those throws and didn't. It just wasn't the same game plan without Gronk. They truly should have won that game. If Welker caught that pass with 3:53 left they could have milked the clock and it would have been a whole new drive for Eli to come back with a winning TD, less time, and Pats would have taken away the sidelines. Just a sad loss for Pats and their fans.
 
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This is one of those situations where the end result determines whether it was genius or foolish in the eyes of most. If the Pats had scored, BB would have looked like a genius, but since they didn't most think he looked foolish. I agree with Willie here that doing what they did was really their best chance to win the game. Fumbles, bad snaps and missed XP(which is basically what the FG would have been) are very rare especially in this situation, so I think BB made the right call to give his team the best chance to win the game...
 

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BB's big mistake was throwing the flag on a play that happened right in front of him. That cost him a valuable time out. He got breaks when Nix ran out of bounds and when Bradshaw failed to play possum. He was damned lucky to have gotten another chance at all actually. When a game pivots on so many plays it is hard to fault anyone. In the end Brady made a poor choice and a worse throw to Big G also. His throw to Welker could have been better also although Welker would probably say he should have had it. BB is predictable though. The best prop bet would have been who would get the ball first since NE always defers.

This. Challenging that play and losing the timeout was the real killer. With 3 timeouts, Pats could have played D and force Giants into the FG attempt. Even if they make it, Pats get the ball back with about 50 seconds left and only need a FG to win, not a TD.
 

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They had a decent attempt to the endzone; I would say that was all they could have hoped for under those circumstances. The call was the right call, but face it; either way they would have been up against it. I mean, they were either going to have to hope for a missed/blocked/botched XP (essentially), or they were going to have to hope for a deep pass to the endzone. Neither scenario was particularly favorable.

-etc
 

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challenging the catch and losing a TO are legit criticisms against BB, especially in hindsight

but I think he had to challenge that catch. It was a game changing play and with Eli rushing to the line of scrimmage, the Pats didn't have time to be certain before they challenged
 

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challenging the catch and losing a TO are legit criticisms against BB, especially in hindsight

but I think he had to challenge that catch. It was a game changing play and with Eli rushing to the line of scrimmage, the Pats didn't have time to be certain before they challenged

I agree it was a game changing play. I think BB made the challenge in the best interests of his players. Even though he made the challenge I think his guys in the booth could have saved him from making it and timeouts were going to be crucial from that point on. If he relied on his guys in the booth then maybe that one goes on them. All inidcations were that it was a good catch and of course it held up. As bad as things went from that point one more time out might have made a big difference. But, needing a TD and not just a FG was a killer also.
 

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The pats have personnel issues imo, they simply do not have the receiving corps they need. Gronkowski being limited was very, very big, perhaps the whole game.

I think the Pats would do themselves a favor to get better receivers. The TE focus this season was a very impressive coaching maneuver, but it wasn't enough to make up for what is basically a decent, not great receiver corps.

The difference in the game was the receivers, the Giants have them, and the Pats do not.

BB also needs some new tricks in his bag...putting everything on Brady every game, every year is wearing on the guy. They barely got past Baltimore and then he had huge mistakes against the Giants, and still I would argue he played great. It's just too much on his shoulders and I blame BB for this.
 

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Bottom line: If there was only one game every week, every thread on this forum would be just like this one. One side winning and the other side losing. Threads would be full of woulda, coulda, shouldas. I have said it before, if you watched each and every game played during the college and NFL season you would probably never bet again. Why, because shit happens. That is why vegas builds big casinos, because shit happens. That would make a great title for a book, "Shit Happens" by (fill in the blank).
 

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challenging the catch and losing a TO are legit criticisms against BB, especially in hindsight

but I think he had to challenge that catch. It was a game changing play and with Eli rushing to the line of scrimmage, the Pats didn't have time to be certain before they challenged

I tend to agree with you Willie. He has to challenge there because it was so close to the sidelines. With Giants rushing to the line, he didn't have the luxury of waiting for the replay. If he challenges and the call gets overturned, he wins his gamble and maybe wins the game. It didn't and losing that timeout was a huge difference maker later in the drive.

Of course, had the Pats stepped up after losing that challenge and forced the Giants into a long FG or a hail mary situation it all becomes irrelevant. At the end of the day, Giants beat the Pats and that's it. There are too many situations of would of, should of, could of. It is what it is.
 

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Bill Belicheck made the right call challenging the catch...The catch or not a catch was crucial. The problem was Eli manning and the Giants were rushing to the line of scrimmage to get off a play right away not only to stop NE from challenging but more important from Belicheck getting word from booth on whether to challenge or not. The Giants made him play his hand immediately, whatever the outcome. Again the play was crucial, he made the right decision but it would have helped if he would have had time to get word from his coaches in the booth. If the replay, shows no catch who gives a rats ass about the loss of a time out.

As far as NE letting the Giants score you guys are funny...You may strip the ball, they may have a bad snap, he may miss what amounts to be an extra point LOL. Just hilarious...You put it in QB Brady's hands with enough time to get you down the field and possibly win the game. You definitely don't take it out of his hands and let time basically expire. I THINK BELICHECK SHOULD HAVE LET THEM SCORE EARLIER, WITH 2 TIME OUTS STILL AVAILABLE AND CLOSE TO TWO MINUTES ON THE CLOCK!!!! It would have definitely gotten more interesting in that scenario...

Yours in Winners
BernieV
 

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Bill Belicheck made the right call challenging the catch...The catch or not a catch was crucial. The problem was Eli manning and the Giants were rushing to the line of scrimmage to get off a play right away not only to stop NE from challenging but more important from Belicheck getting word from booth on whether to challenge or not. The Giants made him play his hand immediately, whatever the outcome. Again the play was crucial, he made the right decision but it would have helped if he would have had time to get word from his coaches in the booth. If the replay, shows no catch who gives a rats ass about the loss of a time out.

As far as NE letting the Giants score you guys are funny...You may strip the ball, they may have a bad snap, he may miss what amounts to be an extra point LOL. Just hilarious...You put it in QB Brady's hands with enough time to get you down the field and possibly win the game. You definitely don't take it out of his hands and let time basically expire. I THINK BELICHECK SHOULD HAVE LET THEM SCORE EARLIER, WITH 2 TIME OUTS STILL AVAILABLE AND CLOSE TO TWO MINUTES ON THE CLOCK!!!! It would have definitely gotten more interesting in that scenario...

Yours in Winners
BernieV


I agree with all of the above: that catch was good by thismuch, and if somebody who was right there thought it may have been out, are you guys REALLY gonna ream him for trying to negate a 39 yard gain-and, btw, if the Pats play a little defense, the whole issue of whether they should allow the Giants to score or how many timeouts they have is moot, so planning ahead and assuming you're gonna get scored on is silly, IMO. As for letting them score, please, that's not even a question, like Bernie says, they should've done it sooner. Waiting for a fumbled snap, a stroke by the holder or kicker, a miss on what was essentially an extra point, or a protective runner coming up with a fumble...good luck with that.

Having said all of that, I'm surprised nobody mentioned the Genius having 12 men on the field when the Patriots actually recovered a fumble,don't gimme that Defensive Coordinator stuff, that's on him, and the way his teams have come up short(twice against the Giants, hideous losses vs the Ravens and Jets) makes him far short of a genius in my eyes: those razor thin 3 Super Bowl wins, all by exactly a field goal and pre-Spygate, were a long time ago. And, what a miserable human being, cutting a guy the night before the Super Bowl and refusing to give an interview afterwards, whatta scumbag...
 

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that's a fair and interesting point bernie, to let the td occur even earlier
It's all about comfort zones and that is WAY out of the comfort zone for any coach, even bb, especially in the SB

it's crazy enough, even though it makes sense, to allow a TD in any circumstance, let alone to basically give one away with several minutes left
For the weak Pats pass D it may have made sense honestly, but in the ROI analysis of it all, it may be a lot safer for BB to do what he did then risk that...because if he let up an intentional TD that early and then failed to score, all the what if's would have gotten UGLY!
 

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