Barbara Bush- a Very Wise Lady

[The Guesser]

Besides being 1st lady to the best President we've had in the last half century, she is also very smart. I hope both former top Political family members that are thinking about running for President in 2016 take her advice.

http://www.latimes.com/nation/polit...b-2016-20140117,0,5697662.story#axzz2qhoJXGYl

 

[mountain]

Besides being 1st lady to the best President we've had in the last half century, she is also very smart. I hope both former top Political family members that are thinking about running for President in 2016 take her advice.

http://www.latimes.com/nation/polit...b-2016-20140117,0,5697662.story#axzz2qhoJXGYl

He would be the best Bush of the three. The guy has a solid resume' but he may not be able to overcome the family name. Any open minded voter would be wise to take a hard look at him if he does run.

 

[The Guesser]

He would be the best Bush of the three. The guy has a solid resume' but he may not be able to overcome the family name. Any open minded voter would be wise to take a hard look at him if he does run.

He doesn't have the resume of his pappy, and I doubt he'd be as good. But his Brother ruined the family name in Presidential Politics for a VERY long time, and he won't be able to overcome it. Add it to his own Mom knowing that, verbalizing it, and not wanting him to run, and the campaign commercials against him write themselves. For both parties.

 

[ScottL]

Guesser, first you credit Barbara Bush. Then you clain Bush 43 "ruined the family name." Which is it?

The article happened to state she thought Jeb was the most qualified candidate. Is this the part that makes her a "very wise lady." Or is it the part where she "hopes he doesn't run?"

In your opinion GWB was a poor president. But that opinion belongs to you, and those who have the same political leanings. As an Independent voter I'll say there were things GWB did that in hindsight should have been done differently. But the man made what he believed to be the best choices for America in the difficult decisions a president must make. Do you honestly believe that if both GWB and BO were eligible to run in 2016 that BO would win? And when speaking of campaign commercials writing themselves do you actually also believe that is not also the case with Hillary?
http://www.washingtontimes.com/news/2014/jan/9/pruden-the-stampede-of-skeletons/

 

[The Guesser]

Guesser, first you credit Barbara Bush. Then you clain Bush 43 "ruined the family name." Which is it?

The article happened to state she thought Jeb was the most qualified candidate. Is this the part that makes her a "very wise lady." Or is it the part where she "hopes he doesn't run?"

In your opinion GWB was a poor president. But that opinion belongs to you, and those who have the same political leanings. As an Independent voter I'll say there were things GWB did that in hindsight should have been done differently. But the man made what he believed to be the best choices for America in the difficult decisions a president must make. Do you honestly believe that if both GWB and BO were eligible to run in 2016 that BO would win? And when speaking of campaign commercials writing themselves do you actually also believe that is not also the case with Hillary?
http://www.washingtontimes.com/news/2014/jan/9/pruden-the-stampede-of-skeletons/

Ruined the Bush family name for Presidential Politics. Barbara Bush is a greatly admired Woman, rightfully so, as is her Hubby, as is Laura. Unfortunately for them, GWB ruined the family name for Presidential Politics for a long, long time. She's wise because she knows Jeb can't overcome what GWB did, although as his mother, she can't say that. So she says what she says very classily.
It's FAR more than my opinion that GWB was a disaster. It's more than Democrats and Independents and Moderates that share that view. GWB was Personna non grata at Republication conventions since his Presidency.
Of Course BO would win in that race with GWB. By a LANDSLIDE. You can't seriously think otherwise, but we'll never know.
Obama is not and will not be a pariah in his own party at this point, like GWB is.
As for Hillary, absolutely. I think she's a dreadful candidate, But unfortunately a winning one. Her Husband, while I'm not and never was a fan, wasn't perceived as a horrid President like GWB was. She doesn't have a family member stating she shouldn't run, that the Country had had enough of their family in the Presidency, that it's time for new blood.

 

[Ricboff]

Walk away Jeb, another 'Bush' will not be president . She was 'careful' with her words.

 

[ScottL]

Still disagree. Bush 100X better president then Obama and would landslide him if they opposed each other - TODAY!
















I think I figured out what's going on here Guesser. You meant to type Barbara Boxer and accidentally typed Barbara Bush.

 

[Ricboff]

U sure it's not 1000X times better . Another factor of 10 might be a stretch?

 

[ScottL]

In the Octagon:

Bush -160 vs Obama
Michelle -600 vs Laura

;-)

 

[The Guesser]

Still disagree. Bush 100X better president then Obama and would landslide him if they opposed each other - TODAY!
















I think I figured out what's going on here Guesser. You meant to type Barbara Boxer and accidentally typed Barbara Bush.

Have to SEVERELY disagree Scott. Bush was the least Popular President in Recorded Poll taking History when he left Office. Even with Obama's deflated Popularity Numbers, he is nowhere near the historic low popularity of Bush, and unless we get in another needless, false War like Iraq, he's likely to safely stay above Bush's low water mark. Bush is not only the worst President in recorded poll number history, he is the worst Prez in history period, IMO. Ignoring info and not preventing a preventable attack on 9-11, and starting a War that killed over a Thousand Americans and Many Thousand Innocent Iraqi's for nothing, in response to that attack which they had nothing to do with, with a lie about WMD's, clinched that award. http://www.cbsnews.com/news/bushs-final-approval-rating-22-percent/

 

[The Guesser]

In the Octagon:

Bush -160 vs Obama
Michelle -600 vs Laura

;-)

Michelle -350 over GWB

 

[ScottL]

Have to SEVERELY disagree Scott. Bush was the least Popular President in Recorded Poll taking History when he left Office. Even with Obama's deflated Popularity Numbers, he is nowhere near the historic low popularity of Bush, and unless we get in another needless, false War like Iraq, he's likely to safely stay above Bush's low water mark. Bush is not only the worst President in recorded poll number history, he is the worst Prez in history period, IMO. Ignoring info and not preventing a preventable attack on 9-11, and starting a War that killed over a Thousand Americans and Many Thousand Innocent Iraqi's for nothing, in response to that attack which they had nothing to do with, with a lie about WMD's, clinched that award. http://www.cbsnews.com/news/bushs-final-approval-rating-22-percent/

TG,
Had you not capped SEVERELY I would doubt your conviction

Anyway, up front I want to say, as much as some of what you write disturbs me I think the most important thing here is you and I can disagree without sinking to the level of discourse most threads do. Now with that said I think the major weakness of your arguments is you conflate opinion with facts. "No WMD ≠ "Bush lied." It was not a false war, regardless. You can argue the results, but not the reasoning. There were plenty of reasons to remove Saddam. Probably even more reasons to bomb the assembly where the Iranian clerics meet, but I digress.... In all likelihood the war was an attempt to remake the ME region, and probably a longshot. Bush falsely believed that if you remove a dictator, and one who was stirring up trouble outside his own country as well, people's desire to be free and self-govern would fill that vacuum. Then like dominoes dictators would fall and democratic societies would rise in the region. Unfortunately the Arabs are still not ready to get out from under the boot of dictators and the blood splatter of indiscriminate terror attacks.

However, if you think Obama has gotten anything right in his foreign policy outside of scalping a few some high level AQ I SEVERELY believe you're mistaken. Walking away from the ME at a time when our own technology can cross oceans to kill us is folly. I'm not saying I have all the answers. We can argue all day about the idea(s) of the war in Iraq. I will agree with you on the unintended negative result. And I will also forecast there will be a price to pay for Obama's horrible ME policy of negotiating with evil (yeah Rolltide, I said evil).

 

[The Guesser]

TG,
Had you not capped SEVERELY I would doubt your conviction

Anyway, up front I want to say, as much as some of what you write disturbs me I think the most important thing here is you and I can disagree without sinking to the level of discourse most threads do. Now with that said I think the major weakness of your arguments is you conflate opinion with facts. "No WMD ≠ "Bush lied." It was not a false war, regardless. You can argue the results, but not the reasoning. There were plenty of reasons to remove Saddam. Probably even more reasons to bomb the assembly where the Iranian clerics meet, but I digress.... In all likelihood the war was an attempt to remake the ME region, and probably a longshot. Bush falsely believed that if you remove a dictator, and one who was stirring up trouble outside his own country as well, people's desire to be free and self-govern would fill that vacuum. Then like dominoes dictators would fall and democratic societies would rise in the region. Unfortunately the Arabs are still not ready to get out from under the boot of dictators and the blood splatter of indiscriminate terror attacks.

However, if you think Obama has gotten anything right in his foreign policy outside of scalping a few some high level AQ I SEVERELY believe you're mistaken. Walking away from the ME at a time when our own technology can cross oceans to kill us is folly. I'm not saying I have all the answers. We can argue all day about the idea(s) of the war in Iraq. I will agree with you on the unintended negative result. And I will also forecast there will be a price to pay for Obama's horrible ME policy of negotiating with evil (yeah Rolltide, I said evil).

Scott, you are a gentleman and I'll always treat you with respect, regardless of our political differences. With those that take themselves into the gutter, they get the same treatment back from me. In spades.
It was not our place to remove Saddam, so it was a false war, since he didn't attack us, and had nothing to do with 9-11. We are not/should not be, in the business of removing every dictator in the world we disagree with. It is not our place to remake the ME. This is the main reason we are hated by a large segment over there and will continue to be, as long as that's our policy.
I think Obama's foreign policy is far too aggressive and intrusive for my tastes. He did a FANTASTIC job of getting Bin Laden, after years of failure, and non interest by Bush. He's done a good job in potentially getting a long term agreement with Iran to limit their Nuclear ambitions. We'll see how that goes in 6 months. Other than that, not much good. Putin saved his butt in Syria when he wanted to interfere.

 

[ScottL]

Wow you and I are so far apart it's like running in the opposite direction of an incoming Iraqi sandstorm. I don't think we'll ever be able to forge a 'MIDDLE' ground ;-)

But to deconstruct your post, line by line.....

America is the leader of the free world. Our allies look to us when a rodent is running around threatening their security. Saddam was paying the families of homicide bombers 35K a pop. He also invaded Kuwait, causing the Saudis to shit their robes. He had two sons as demonic as he was. Do you think they were just going to eventually go away?

Now is/was it our place to remake the ME? That's a tougher one. But let me tell you this -- OBL was the McDonald's of terror (leaving his Papi Arafat out for the moment). You can kill an individual from afar. But you can't kill an ideology. Now all the new franchisees that follow the AQ ideology have sprung from that poisoned well. How is it going to end? You know you sound a lot like Ron Paul here, ironically. Leave them alone and they'll leave us alone. Nah.

9/11 happened because they want to end our way of life and replace it with theirs.

We are not hated due to our intervention in the ME. That is a scapegoating myth that Arab dictators and terrorist leaders feed into their populations. Remember, in enslaved societies all media is controlled. By constantly feeding Great Satan and Little Satan propaganda to their subjects dictators take the people's focus away from the truth, that it is the repressive regime itself that has sunken the society into such depravity. Blaming Western Culture is a way of shaming people into staying in line, to keep the regime in power.

You cannot possibly have more than a guess as to everything that went into getting OBL. How do you know Bush, or the people or policies he put in place played no part in OBL's demise? "Non-interest?" Bush had on his possession at all times a 52 card deck with all the top terrorists he wanted captured or killed.

Putin did nothing except play Obama for a fool, as is Iran.. The fake agreement is another kick of the can down the road. Iran seeks hegemony over the entire ME region. And the bomb. They see Obama as Jimmy Carter, Part Deaux.

What is happening in Syria is tragic. Obama had no intention to intervene. But I'll admit we have no idea if it would have been a good idea anyway. There is no longer any side to support there.

It's really unfortunate the world hates Israel so much. Because what should have happened is we should have asked Israel, AS SOON AS Assad started bombing cities and civilians, to blow the Fucker out of his presidential palace. Unfortunately the Arab World and the Jew-hating Euros would have whined too loudly about it. But had Israel done this and got that Fucker out we would not have to contend with al Queda running rampant in Syria, and killing Egyptians in the Sinai. Now we have a bunch of battle-tested Muslim British men in their 20s who are fighting under the AQ umbrella in Syria. And what's going to happen in Britain when they get home?

I guess we have gone far beyond Barbara Bush huh?

=============================================

SF leads 3-0 after the 1Q. They have now shut out their last 9 Opponents in the 1Q by a combined score of 58-0puff_>>

 

[The Guesser]

Wow you and I are so far apart it's like running in the opposite direction of an incoming Iraqi sandstorm. I don't think we'll ever be able to forge a 'MIDDLE' ground ;-)

But to deconstruct your post, line by line.....

America is the leader of the free world. Our allies look to us when a rodent is running around threatening their security. Saddam was paying the families of homicide bombers 35K a pop. He also invaded Kuwait, causing the Saudis to shit their robes. He had two sons as demonic as he was. Do you think they were just going to eventually go away?

Now is/was it our place to remake the ME? That's a tougher one. But let me tell you this -- OBL was the McDonald's of terror (leaving his Papi Arafat out for the moment). You can kill an individual from afar. But you can't kill an ideology. Now all the new franchisees that follow the AQ ideology have sprung from that poisoned well. How is it going to end? You know you sound a lot like Ron Paul here, ironically. Leave them alone and they'll leave us alone. Nah.

9/11 happened because they want to end our way of life and replace it with theirs.

We are not hated due to our intervention in the ME. That is a scapegoating myth that Arab dictators and terrorist leaders feed into their populations. Remember, in enslaved societies all media is controlled. By constantly feeding Great Satan and Little Satan propaganda to their subjects dictators take the people's focus away from the truth, that it is the repressive regime itself that has sunken the society into such depravity. Blaming Western Culture is a way of shaming people into staying in line, to keep the regime in power.

You cannot possibly have more than a guess as to everything that went into getting OBL. How do you know Bush, or the people or policies he put in place played no part in OBL's demise? "Non-interest?" Bush had on his possession at all times a 52 card deck with all the top terrorists he wanted captured or killed.

Putin did nothing except play Obama for a fool, as is Iran.. The fake agreement is another kick of the can down the road. Iran seeks hegemony over the entire ME region. And the bomb. They see Obama as Jimmy Carter, Part Deaux.

What is happening in Syria is tragic. Obama had no intention to intervene. But I'll admit we have no idea if it would have been a good idea anyway. There is no longer any side to support there.

It's really unfortunate the world hates Israel so much. Because what should have happened is we should have asked Israel, AS SOON AS Assad started bombing cities and civilians, to blow the Fucker out of his presidential palace. Unfortunately the Arab World and the Jew-hating Euros would have whined too loudly about it. But had Israel done this and got that Fucker out we would not have to contend with al Queda running rampant in Syria, and killing Egyptians in the Sinai. Now we have a bunch of battle-tested Muslim British men in their 20s who are fighting under the AQ umbrella in Syria. And what's going to happen in Britain when they get home?

I guess we have gone far beyond Barbara Bush huh?

=============================================

SF leads 3-0 after the 1Q. They have now shut out their last 9 Opponents in the 1Q by a combined score of 58-0puff_>>

When it comes to foreign Policy, I am definitely in the Ron Paul school of mind our own business. Go 49ers!!!!! We will continue to agree to disagree about our ME policy, past and future. GWB's own words conveyed his non interest about OBL.

Q: But don't you believe that the threat that bin Laden posed won't truly be eliminated until he is found either dead or alive?
BUSH: Well, as I say, we haven't heard much from him. And I wouldn't necessarily say he's at the center of any command structure. And, again, I don't know where he is. I -- I'll repeat what I said. I truly am not that concerned about him. I know he is on the run. I was concerned about him, when he had taken over a country. I was concerned about the fact that he was basically running Afghanistan and calling the shots for the Taliban.

​

 

[ScottL]

he did a fantastic job of getting bin laden, after years of failure, and non interest by bush.

obama "continued with the policies of his predecessor"

Bingo! Lol!

 

[The Guesser]

Bingo! Lol!

About the NSA. BOOM. 10-0 SF!!!!!!!!!

 

[ScottL]

When it comes to foreign Policy, I am definitely in the Ron Paul school of mind our own business. Go 49ers!!!!! We will continue to agree to disagree about our ME policy, past and future. GWB's own words conveyed his non interest about OBL.

Q: But don't you believe that the threat that bin Laden posed won't truly be eliminated until he is found either dead or alive?
BUSH: Well, as I say, we haven't heard much from him. And I wouldn't necessarily say he's at the center of any command structure. And, again, I don't know where he is. I -- I'll repeat what I said. I truly am not that concerned about him. I know he is on the run. I was concerned about him, when he had taken over a country. I was concerned about the fact that he was basically running Afghanistan and calling the shots for the Taliban.

​

It was politically expedient for Bush to answer that way.

I'll stop for now, assuming you want to tackle the rest of Post #14 before we continue.

 

[The Guesser]

It was politically expedient for Bush to answer that way.

I'll stop for now, assuming you want to tackle the rest of Post #14 before we continue.

We disagree about much in Post #14. Iraq was none of our business. We attacked Sadaam when he attacked Kuwait under the good Bush. But Pappy Bush was smart enough to know that's all we needed to do, not take over Iraq, and destroy a Country that was an effective counter to Iran in the ME. Now they are Iran's little bitch. And there is no effective, strong Arab counter to Iran.
We disagree about Obama's Syria intent. We disagree about the current Iran deal. We've discussed both, so I don't think there's any new material to cover. I don't think it would have been in Israel's interest to attack Assad because of what he was doing internally to his Citizens.

 

[ScottL]

We disagree about much in Post #14. Iraq was none of our business. We attacked Sadaam when he attacked Kuwait under the good Bush. But Pappy Bush was smart enough to know that's all we needed to do, not take over Iraq, and destroy a Country that was an effective counter to Iran in the ME. Now they are Iran's little bitch. And there is no effective, strong Arab counter to Iran.
We disagree about Obama's Syria intent. We disagree about the current Iran deal. We've discussed both, so I don't think there's any new material to cover. I don't think it would have been in Israel's interest to attack Assad because of what he was doing internally to his Citizens.

No, actually Bush 41 made the mistake of not finishing the job. We wouldn't be having this debate about the second Iraq invasion. We were at Saddam's doorstep.

You're right. It wouldn't have been in Israel's best interest to kill Assad. But while the world's organized bodies of Jew bashers would have stammered about it they'd be cheering under their breath.

Looks like we're at an impasse. Philosophically you and I just disagree.

Sorry about your SF result. You deserved a better outcome.