As much as i want to blame the UAW....

[fletchisrhsm]

You have to start at the top.

In 1965, CEO pay was 26 times that of their average worker.
In 1980...40 times.
In 1989... 72 times.
In 1999...310 times.

Today according to accounting firm, Towers Perrin, survey it has reached 500 times.

Alot of blame to go around for sure, but shit always runs downhill and it has to start at the top.

 

[eek.]

communist

 

[pubguy]

Nice find. So they have more than one problem? Who knew? UAW is still the biggest and most difficult to fix.

 

[Willie99]

Executive pay is absurd. However, if the CEO worked from free, the companies would be in the same position they are today. I don't know the exact numbers, but the union workers would have to take a statistically small cut in pay and the companies could be in the black.

It's about volume.

 

[Preussen]

Executive pay is absurd. However, if the CEO worked from free, the companies would be in the same position they are today. I don't know the exact numbers, but the union workers would have to take a statistically small cut in pay and the companies could be in the black.

It's about volume.

Correct. But it will be hard to sell a cut to the workers and the union as long as the pay for the executives doesn't get significanty cut, either, especially seeing that many of the executives' decisions have led or at least contributed to the current problems.

 

[tiznow]

its a conglomeration of shit

upper management for being retards and thinking the SUV easy credit housing bubble gas guzzling days would last forever

and unions that thought they could get 40 dollars and hour or whatever and all these crazy benefits while other car companies namely japanese have both better management and cheaper labor

the free markets are a bitch sometimes and they eventually catch up to your socialist/beuracratic ass that thinks they can outsmart the marketplace which is exactly is what is happening in this case

we about to learn a hard lesson in free market economics and how socialism and big government creates huge problems not just in this area/industry but in many other areas



what's coming now has been building for a long long time and this time we can't put humpty dumpty back together again like we could in the past because everything falling apart all at once

 

[rolltide]

got it ... so the main reason the American auto industry is in the tank is because the CEO makes too much money?

tiznow thought i heard that with benefits the avg union worker is 75/hr?...maybe wrong but think it's much higher than 40

 

[pubguy]

http://mjperry.blogspot.com/2007/07/uaw-pricing-themselves-out-of-market.html

 

[JohnnyMac]

If the government provided health care to all Americans, and the Big 3 was relieved of their obligations for health insurance to the UAW and their retirees, wouldn't that immediately reduce the cost of each car coming off the line to a point where Detroit was profitable?

 

[fletchisrhsm]

The CEO sets the tone for the company. The UAW is without question one of the biggest problems with the business. Just as the arrogance of the US auto industry and unwilling to change or reluctant or too slow anyway. As is making an inferior product that doesn't hold its value. And Willie is right, its about volume. But the point being is that it has to start from the top, they are the people in charge of the company, they have to make sacrifices first...and those unwilling to make them after them, will be left out in the cold.

Also, that link is misleading, because you average professor when totaling in his benefits would make close to 150K as well.

 

[punter]

Low standard's 1st they run the Corvair out there and now the Lions.

 

[pubguy]

The CEO sets the tone for the company. The UAW is without question one of the biggest problems with the business. Just as the arrogance of the US auto industry and unwilling to change or reluctant or too slow anyway. As is making an inferior product that doesn't hold its value. And Willie is right, its about volume. But the point being is that it has to start from the top, they are the people in charge of the company, they have to make sacrifices first...and those unwilling to make them after them, will be left out in the cold.

Also, that link is misleading, because you average professor when totaling in his benefits would make close to 150K as well.

The text clearly states "Total wages and benefits", so hardly misleading.

 

[pubguy]

If the government provided health care to all Americans, and the Big 3 was relieved of their obligations for health insurance to the UAW and their retirees, wouldn't that immediately reduce the cost of each car coming off the line to a point where Detroit was profitable?

Ah, but where does that money come from Sir? The magical Gov't has to get it from somewhere.

 

[fletchisrhsm]

The text clearly states "Total wages and benefits", so hardly misleading.

:nohead:

Wow. So, you think a professor with a PHD is only pulling in 96K with benefits included? I would assume that is the salary. His numbers i would assume are off. I have two professors in my extended family, one at Pitt the other at La Tech and both are pulling in over 100K salary on a 9 month contract. In fact when i was going to PSU back last in 2002, every one of them that i knew of was making around that amount as well. Obviously its isolated, but i think this is the norm.

 

[JohnnyMac]

Ah, but where does that money come from Sir? The magical Gov't has to get it from somewhere.

The same place the money came from for the Iraq war and the Wall Street bail-out.

 

[tiznow]

:nohead:

Wow. So, you think a professor with a PHD is only pulling in 96K with benefits included? I would assume that is the salary. His numbers i would assume are off. I have two professors in my extended family, one at Pitt the other at La Tech and both are pulling in over 100K salary on a 9 month contract. In fact when i was going to PSU back last in 2002, every one of them that i knew of was making around that amount as well. Obviously its isolated, but i think this is the norm.

as long as the easy credit is flowing and the economy is seemingly okay and mommy and daddy are willing to pay 40k/year for johnny to go to college to get business degree and get drunk half the time all is good

major deflationary (had to throw that in of course LOL) haircuts coming at the university level over time as well you can take that to the bank

the days of people going into 160k of debt or spending 160k of their parents money to get a crap degree will slowly wash away with this recession/depression

to which i say good riddance

 

[EasyMoney]

that link is very misleading. The average line worker makes no where near $74 an hour. And I should know, most of my family is retired GM. That $74 an hour figure includes everything from Insurance, workers comp, disablity, sick leave, pention, ect, ect. And by the way it also is counting past employees that draw pentions, and health benifits. These are refered to as Legacy Cost, and this is what jacks the per hour cost up. The average GM line workers makes $31.35 an hour, and GM's cost for a current employee's is about $41 an hour. By contrast the average Toyota line worker makes $27 an hour. These figures can be found quite easily on both GM's and Toyota's websites.

By the way the first U.S. Toyota plant opened in 1989. So if a guy started working at toyota on the first day of it ever being in existance in the U.S.A. he would still have 11 more years to work before retirment. So I'm quite sure that is why Toyota's cost per employee per hour isn't nearly as high as the big 3. GM alone has over 400,000 retired workers that they pay pensions and insurance for. As of 2006 Toyota had a whopping 258 retired workers.

 

[pubguy]

:nohead:

Wow. So, you think a professor with a PHD is only pulling in 96K with benefits included? I would assume that is the salary. His numbers i would assume are off. I have two professors in my extended family, one at Pitt the other at La Tech and both are pulling in over 100K salary on a 9 month contract. In fact when i was going to PSU back last in 2002, every one of them that i knew of was making around that amount as well. Obviously its isolated, but i think this is the norm.

I just supplied a link dude. You said misleading. I said clearly stated. I answered a question with a fact.

You say 2 profs in your family make over 100k. How much over? So some make over 100k and some make under. Couldn't the avg. be 96k as stated by the blogger?

 

[pubguy]

that link is very misleading. The average line worker makes no where near $74 an hour. And I should know, most of my family is retired GM. That $74 an hour figure includes everything from Insurance, workers comp, disablity, sick leave, pention, ect, ect. And by the way it also is counting past employees that draw pentions, and health benifits. These are refered to as Legacy Cost, and this is what jacks the per hour cost up. The average GM line workers makes $31.35 an hour, and GM's cost for a current employee's is about $41 an hour. By contrast the average Toyota line worker makes $27 an hour. These figures can be found quite easily on both GM's and Toyota's websites.

By the way the first U.S. Toyota plant opened in 1989. So if a guy started working at toyota on the first day of it ever being in existance in the U.S.A. he would still have 11 more years to work before retirment. So I'm quite sure that is why Toyota's cost per employee per hour isn't nearly as high as the big 3. GM alone has over 400,000 retired workers that they pay pensions and insurance for. As of 2006 Toyota had a whopping 258 retired workers.

Great info. The fact remains (as reported in many sources) that the Big 3 spend approx. 50% more per hour to make a vehicle than Toyota does at their plants in the US. That's a bad business model which is doomed to failure.

 

[pubguy]

The same place the money came from for the Iraq war and the Wall Street bail-out.

So why don't we do what Coldweather suggests and have Uncle Sam buy every American a car? It would be cheaper than supplying healthcare. Better yet, let's do both and throw in the largest public works program in American history so that everyone has a job. Surely all those rich peeps who make over 250k a year could povide us with these little things.