The problem in this whole equation is Saudi Arabia ...
their form of Wahhibism that is taught and spread throughout the Muslim world is at the core of why the West is at war and totally dense about what is their goals are
There in lies the major problem ... we are fighting a war with Iraq ... only problem is Iraq aint the main player and never has been
Until the USA can figure out a way to cut ties with Saudi Arabia all the bombings in the world in Iraq dont mean jack
their form of Wahhibism that is taught and spread throughout the Muslim world is at the core of why the West is at war and totally dense about what is their goals are
There in lies the major problem ... we are fighting a war with Iraq ... only problem is Iraq aint the main player and never has been
Until the USA can figure out a way to cut ties with Saudi Arabia all the bombings in the world in Iraq dont mean jack
Doc,
You're correct about Saudi Arabia, however you know as well as I do liberals are not ready to confront the problem of Wahhibism. They'd just assume submit to islam.
Three factors that could make it possible to take serious action against the Saudis would be increased production from Russia, Iraq and the drilling in ANWR.
You're correct about Saudi Arabia, however you know as well as I do liberals are not ready to confront the problem of Wahhibism. They'd just assume submit to islam.
Three factors that could make it possible to take serious action against the Saudis would be increased production from Russia, Iraq and the drilling in ANWR.
Wahhabism is part of the problem, but it's hardly the whole problem itself.
(Game, read America's Secret War, seriously, you'd love it. The Iraq invasion was largely to corner Saudi Arabia.)
Another part of the problem is the Western (especially American) presence in the ME. You don't walk into a blues bar in Montgomery, scream the word 'nigger' fifty times, and then blame your ensuing beating on the teachings of Malcolm X, do you?
(Game, read America's Secret War, seriously, you'd love it. The Iraq invasion was largely to corner Saudi Arabia.)
Another part of the problem is the Western (especially American) presence in the ME. You don't walk into a blues bar in Montgomery, scream the word 'nigger' fifty times, and then blame your ensuing beating on the teachings of Malcolm X, do you?
xpanda - that was a good analogy - and very apt.
The Saudis aren't protected by the US any more, so they deserve what they get.
As for history - what happened yesterday should be learned by all - blame and recriminations would be counter productive - and both sides are guilty.
The people in the US are spoiled - reliant on cheap oil for their SUV's and home heating oil, they would scream for war if it meant high costs and a lower standard of living. As long as the US is dependant on foreign oil, we have to stay involved.
Oil is a finite commodity, the US should continue to use foreign oil and leave our own natural reserves alone until we need them when the rest of the worlds resources run out.
The Saudis aren't protected by the US any more, so they deserve what they get.
As for history - what happened yesterday should be learned by all - blame and recriminations would be counter productive - and both sides are guilty.
The people in the US are spoiled - reliant on cheap oil for their SUV's and home heating oil, they would scream for war if it meant high costs and a lower standard of living. As long as the US is dependant on foreign oil, we have to stay involved.
Oil is a finite commodity, the US should continue to use foreign oil and leave our own natural reserves alone until we need them when the rest of the worlds resources run out.
Gameface:
Ghees, ya sound like Coulter with that comment ...
that is hogwash ....
We are fighting a war in a country where our kids need not be .. were sent in on falsified information by the leaders of this country .. You know and so does everyone else
Problem we have right now is the Bush family is so deep in bed with the Saudis that Bush is gonna tout the success in Iraq and Americans will high 5 each other ... and defeating Iraq is like having cancer and cut off a finger ... well, got news for ya, the cancer is still there and the cells will spread till it kills ya
America is very vunerable .. we will get hit again and the next time it will much more severe as we are at war with a foe that is very patient and has infiltrated this country and awaits for the right time and place
Ghees, ya sound like Coulter with that comment ...
that is hogwash ....
We are fighting a war in a country where our kids need not be .. were sent in on falsified information by the leaders of this country .. You know and so does everyone else
Problem we have right now is the Bush family is so deep in bed with the Saudis that Bush is gonna tout the success in Iraq and Americans will high 5 each other ... and defeating Iraq is like having cancer and cut off a finger ... well, got news for ya, the cancer is still there and the cells will spread till it kills ya
America is very vunerable .. we will get hit again and the next time it will much more severe as we are at war with a foe that is very patient and has infiltrated this country and awaits for the right time and place
Doc - if Bush was "in bed" with the Saudi's, he wouldn't have pulled the US bases out of their country.
Right now the Saud thone has to be worrying about it's future as the wassabi's are demanding more than lip service to the tenets of the Koran - they're demanding adherance - and orthodoxy doesn't seem to be a strength of the royal family.
I expect the Suads to be overthrown in the next several years.
Right now the Saud thone has to be worrying about it's future as the wassabi's are demanding more than lip service to the tenets of the Koran - they're demanding adherance - and orthodoxy doesn't seem to be a strength of the royal family.
I expect the Suads to be overthrown in the next several years.
bblight said:
Dude, wassabi is the horseradish-like green stuff served with sushi.
Bush was in bed with the Saudis, no question. Their game-playing in the year after 9/11 turned the tables on them. Hence the war in Iraq. Until then, they thought the US couldn't have a successful policy in the ME without them.
Xpanda:
Remember, no matter what I say about Bush will be called BS by bblight ... too bad he is not capable of doing his own homework instead of relying on the pearls of wisdom that are Limbaugh, Hannity or Coulter pass along:
Around two dozen other American-based members of the bin Laden family, most of them here to study in colleges and prep schools, were said to be in the United States at the time of the 9-11 attacks... With approval from the FBI, according to a Saudi official, the bin Ladens flew by private jet from Los Angeles to Orlando, then on to Washington, and finally to Boston. Once the FAA permitted overseas flights, the jet flew to Europe. United States officials apparently needed little persuasion from the Saudi ambassador in Washington, Prince Bandar bin Sultan, that the extended bin Laden family included no material witnesses ... So, with the approval of the FBI and the help of the Saudi government -- and even though fifteen of the nineteen hijackers had been Saudi citizens -- the relatives of the number-one suspect in the terror attacks were allowed not only to just up and leave the country, but they were assisted by our own authorities! Yet private jets under the supervision of the Saudi government -- and with Bush's approval -- were allowed to fly around the skies of America and pick up twenty-four members of the bin Laden family and take them to Europe, out of the reach of any U.S. officials !!
The bin Ladens have had business relations with the Bush family off and on for the past twenty-five years ... Back in 1977, when Bush #41 set you up with an oil company named Arbusto, which received financing from an old buddy named James R. Bath. He had been hired by Salem bin Laden -- Osama's brother -- to invest the bin Ladens' money in various Texas ventures. Some $50,000 -- or five percent of control of Arbusto -- came from Mr. Bath.
After leaving office, your father became a consultant for the Carlyle Group, an investment firm with billions in defense holdings. The bin Laden family has invested a minimum of $2 million in the Carlyle Group. Frank Carlucci, secretary of defense under Reagan and now the head of Carlyle, also happens to sit on the board of directors of a think tank called the Middle East Policy Council along with a representative of the bin Laden family business
As Robert Baer -- who was a case officer in the CIA's Directorate of Operations from 1976 to 1997 -- revealed in his book Sleeping With the Devil, Bush #41 even has a special name for the Saudi prince: He calls him "Bandar Bush." Prince Bandar invests in the Carlyle Group, and he attended your mother's seventy-fifth-birthday party. He donated $1 million to the George Bush Presidential Library and Museum in Texas and arranged for $1 million more to be donated to Barbara Bush's literacy program. It has been a fruitful relationship all around.
Remember, no matter what I say about Bush will be called BS by bblight ... too bad he is not capable of doing his own homework instead of relying on the pearls of wisdom that are Limbaugh, Hannity or Coulter pass along:
Around two dozen other American-based members of the bin Laden family, most of them here to study in colleges and prep schools, were said to be in the United States at the time of the 9-11 attacks... With approval from the FBI, according to a Saudi official, the bin Ladens flew by private jet from Los Angeles to Orlando, then on to Washington, and finally to Boston. Once the FAA permitted overseas flights, the jet flew to Europe. United States officials apparently needed little persuasion from the Saudi ambassador in Washington, Prince Bandar bin Sultan, that the extended bin Laden family included no material witnesses ... So, with the approval of the FBI and the help of the Saudi government -- and even though fifteen of the nineteen hijackers had been Saudi citizens -- the relatives of the number-one suspect in the terror attacks were allowed not only to just up and leave the country, but they were assisted by our own authorities! Yet private jets under the supervision of the Saudi government -- and with Bush's approval -- were allowed to fly around the skies of America and pick up twenty-four members of the bin Laden family and take them to Europe, out of the reach of any U.S. officials !!
The bin Ladens have had business relations with the Bush family off and on for the past twenty-five years ... Back in 1977, when Bush #41 set you up with an oil company named Arbusto, which received financing from an old buddy named James R. Bath. He had been hired by Salem bin Laden -- Osama's brother -- to invest the bin Ladens' money in various Texas ventures. Some $50,000 -- or five percent of control of Arbusto -- came from Mr. Bath.
After leaving office, your father became a consultant for the Carlyle Group, an investment firm with billions in defense holdings. The bin Laden family has invested a minimum of $2 million in the Carlyle Group. Frank Carlucci, secretary of defense under Reagan and now the head of Carlyle, also happens to sit on the board of directors of a think tank called the Middle East Policy Council along with a representative of the bin Laden family business
As Robert Baer -- who was a case officer in the CIA's Directorate of Operations from 1976 to 1997 -- revealed in his book Sleeping With the Devil, Bush #41 even has a special name for the Saudi prince: He calls him "Bandar Bush." Prince Bandar invests in the Carlyle Group, and he attended your mother's seventy-fifth-birthday party. He donated $1 million to the George Bush Presidential Library and Museum in Texas and arranged for $1 million more to be donated to Barbara Bush's literacy program. It has been a fruitful relationship all around.
GAMEFACE said:
And you've said this to me a couple of times now, to which I keep replying: stay out of everyone else's business!
Look, if the US and all us Western nations removed ourselves from places we aren't wanted, sure, we may have to pay more for gas and oil, but maybe they wouldn't teach their own to hate us so much. But making it official policy to forcefeed our way of life to people who aren't interested is diabolical and immoral. Not to mention stupid.
To complain of resistance or outright animosity is to keep one's head buried in the sand.
Just a thought.
So all the other 14 conflicts around the world where America is not is still Americas fault not the radical muslims? X if you want to close your eyes to the threat of radical islam that's your main problem. You must face the problem to properly figure the solution.
America is the only country able to do the heavy lifting. Lets deal with them in the ME. So leaving is not an option at this time. Thanks
America is the only country able to do the heavy lifting. Lets deal with them in the ME. So leaving is not an option at this time. Thanks
GAMEFACE said:
I'm pretty sure I said 'we.' I'm also pretty sure I'm not American.
Further, you were yammering earlier about Wahabism and Saudi Arabia, so stay on topic, okay? If you want to talk about Islamic fundies in general, then please advise me that the topic has been modified rather than twist my replies.
The threat of Islamic funies is one thing, but the threat of Islamic fundamentalism catching on and becoming widespread is quite another. On the latter, I do believe that Western involvement (and I use the term loosely -- I actually mean 'raping and pillaging') is causing the former to become trendy.
I find your brand of internationalism rather interesting. You want to close your borders to Canada and Mexico to preserve your way of life but cannot even for a second imagine that running all over the ME (as an example, the US is doing this everywhere) could be creating its own form of backlash. It's always 'them' and never 'you.'
Truly mindfücking.
Patriot:
I think with the current administration running the show, we have bigger problems than the Clinton Library ... lets face facts: BOTH Bush & Clinton can spell the word corrupt
Again, the names Enron & Halliburton are a little bit more disturbing than the Clinton Library
Gameface: I've told ya before ... back Israel 100% and give me what they need ... this country is really screwed as our focus is on Iraq and right country to be at war with considering the situation regarding Saudi Arabia
I think with the current administration running the show, we have bigger problems than the Clinton Library ... lets face facts: BOTH Bush & Clinton can spell the word corrupt
Again, the names Enron & Halliburton are a little bit more disturbing than the Clinton Library
Gameface: I've told ya before ... back Israel 100% and give me what they need ... this country is really screwed as our focus is on Iraq and right country to be at war with considering the situation regarding Saudi Arabia
