Are you saying the Federal Agents just showed up on Weaver's property and began firing on the family? That's not what happened at all.
Do you know this story at all?
The agents showed up to serve the warrant and Weaver's kid and family friend had guns and confronted the agents. A fire fight ensued.
Ruby Ridge
I for sure know the real story...Its out there and like stated above it could have been avoided completely if the right information was given out starting with the court date...Can you explain why an FBI sniper killed the guys unarmed wife for no reason, no weapons were drawn or pointed at them and the "command post" didnt know about it for 2 days? Can you explain why the authorities were found at fault for the way the whole situation went bad and all charges were dropped against Weaver and Harris(only charge that stuck was the sawed off shotgun that started it all)? Weaver family got 3.1M from govt. and Harris(who is the one who actually killed the atf agent) got 380K.? There is alot to that story and sadly the Weavers got put in the middle of it.
A few things:
1) Weaver and family were well known to hang out at Hayden Lake with known white supremacy hate groups. The Feds had surveillance on them. No big deal, they didn't commit a crime.
2) Randy Weaver needed money for his family so he sold undercover agents the sawed off shotgun which is a federal crime. They were serving a warrant in relation to that federal crime.
3) The FBI was exchanging fire with Weaver when his wife was hit and killed. The exchange was completely reckless by the feds. They knew the wife was there with kids hence the reason for the payout.
4) All of this still doesn't justify the shooting of a federal agent trying to serve a federal warrant for a crime that was well documented as having occurred.
#3 is false...they were walking from an out building where his 14yr. olds body was at. No exchange of gunfire, the snipers were given orders to shot if they "saw" any weapons which weaver had on his shoulder...sniper shoots at him hits weaver he runs back into the house where the next sniper shot hit his wife in the face who was standing just behind the door holding a baby. Also its documented the agents shot the dog for doing what dogs do to strangers and sniff them, weavers 14 yr old son then shoots at agent(misses) and runs, the agent shoots the kid in the back and kills him, then harris opens up on the agent and kills him...Weaver and harris run back to the house and the other agents run the other way.
Also #4 is false as well...the agent shot was not serving a warrant.
From www.history.com
[FONT="]Randy Weaver, an alleged white supremacist, had been targeted by the federal government for selling two illegal sawed-off shotguns to an undercover Alcohol, Tobacco and Firearms (ATF) informant. (Federal Crime)
On August 21, 1992, after a period of surveillance, U.S. marshals came upon Harrison, Weaver, Weaver’s 14-year-old son Sammy and the family dog on a road near the Weaver property. A marshal shot and killed the dog, prompting Sammy to fire at the marshal. In the ensuing gun battle, Sammy and U.S. Marshal Michael Degan were shot and killed. A tense standoff ensued, and on August 22 the FBI joined the marshals besieging Ruby Ridge. (Weaver's kid initiated the shooting against a Federal Agent. I'd shoot him too.)[/FONT]
[FONT="]Randy Weaver, an alleged white supremacist, had been targeted by the federal government for selling two illegal sawed-off shotguns to an undercover Alcohol, Tobacco and Firearms (ATF) informant. (Federal Crime)
On August 21, 1992, after a period of surveillance, U.S. marshals came upon Harrison, Weaver, Weaver’s 14-year-old son Sammy and the family dog on a road near the Weaver property. A marshal shot and killed the dog, prompting Sammy to fire at the marshal. In the ensuing gun battle, Sammy and U.S. Marshal Michael Degan were shot and killed. A tense standoff ensued, and on August 22 the FBI joined the marshals besieging Ruby Ridge. (Weaver's kid initiated the shooting against a Federal Agent. I'd shoot him too.)[/FONT]
Those were on 2 different days. Sammy Weaver had been dead for several days when Vicki was murdered. All the info I've seen says that no one knows who fired first, the agent or SW, but let's say it was SW. He is minding his own business when someone is hiding on his family's property pops up and kills his dog. You're telling me that if you're on your property and someone came out of hiding and shot your dog, you wouldn't shoot back? People don't bring high powered semi auto rifles and hide on the property of another person unless they've got nefarious motives.
No flamer you are totally correct...The sawing off of a shotgun for a rat agent that brought it to you in the first place totally warrants killing your dog, shooting your child in the back and your wife in the face and then giving you 3.1M for it and paying the guy that killed the agent 380k. Totally makes sense, you are absolutely right those agents were in the right and doing their job. Please. The agents set up weaver to saw off the shotgun for them, then arrested him with now trouble for it...then they got mad at him cause they realized he didn't know shit about all the white supremacist stuff they thought he did and refused to be an informant for them...So they cam back on the wrong day and killed his dog, child, and wife...
Oh yeah, I know. Many different days. Everything I've read says the agent shot the dog and the kid shot the agent and then the kid got shot.
You ask a good question and it depends on the situation. It all comes down to the threat. Did the kid or his dad's friend think their lives were in danger? Did the agent identify himself?
It's very murky but the feds made mistakes, there is no doubt about that but there were mistake by the Weaver's too.
Harris shot the agent that died, no doubt about that.
Now I will agree with you on this, if you associate with bad people, bad stuff can happen...Weaver is for sure at fault for hanging out with those whack job white supremacists. Should have never gotten friendly with his neighbors, so you are absolutely correct in that he brought the heat on himself.
Why are you calling me names now? Why did this become personal all of a sudden? I thought this was a good discussion?
Weaver committed a federal crime. Spin it anyway you want.
The kid shot the agent first not the other way around. Spin it anyway you want.
Every single day across America, drug dealers sell drugs to federal agents. Let me guess? The drug dealers are being set up to commit crimes and they should go free? Is that what you're saying? Really?
That day, agents were serving a warrant and the agent got shot and killed. Those are the facts. The dog and the wife? The feds screwed the situation all up not to mention the court date. All fucking wrong. But you can't raise your gun and shoot a human either.
There is fault all around here.
