Two homosexual men at the center of a Canadian court's landmark decision paving the way for 'gay marriage' were refused entry by American customs officers because the U.S. does not recognize them as a "family."
Kevin Bourassa and Joe Varnell could have been allowed into the country as single men, but they insisted on filling out clearance forms as a family, the Canadian Broadcasting Corporation reported.
Kevin Bourassa (left) and Joe Varnell tried to enter U.S. as a married couple
Bourassa said they decided not to fill out separate forms because they felt it was an insult to their dignity.
The men were on their way to Braselton, Ga., to participate in a panel discussion at a conference for donors to homosexual rights causes called OutGiving 2003, sponsored by the Denver-based Gill Foundation.
CBC News reported the men's lawyer, Doug Elliott, said he has spoken to Ottawa on the issue and is investigating whether legal action can be taken against the governments of Canada and the U.S.
Toronto began issuing 'gay' marriage licenses in June after an Ontario court set aside the heterosexual definition of marriage as unconstitutional.
The decision stemmed from a challenge brought by Bourassa and Varnell, and also a lesbian couple, who were were united in a ceremony at Metropolitan Community Church of Toronto in January 2001. The Toronto couples sued after the province refused to register their unions.
The Ontario court's decision retroactively declared the January 2001 unions valid.
The 61-page decision said, "The existing common law definition of marriage violates the couple's equality rights on the basis of sexual orientation under [constitutional law]."
Ottawa, which decided not to appeal the ruling, and another by a British Columbia court, has moved ahead with plans for a bill that would make same-sex marriage the law of the land.
Kevin Bourassa and Joe Varnell could have been allowed into the country as single men, but they insisted on filling out clearance forms as a family, the Canadian Broadcasting Corporation reported.
Kevin Bourassa (left) and Joe Varnell tried to enter U.S. as a married couple
Bourassa said they decided not to fill out separate forms because they felt it was an insult to their dignity.
The men were on their way to Braselton, Ga., to participate in a panel discussion at a conference for donors to homosexual rights causes called OutGiving 2003, sponsored by the Denver-based Gill Foundation.
CBC News reported the men's lawyer, Doug Elliott, said he has spoken to Ottawa on the issue and is investigating whether legal action can be taken against the governments of Canada and the U.S.
Toronto began issuing 'gay' marriage licenses in June after an Ontario court set aside the heterosexual definition of marriage as unconstitutional.
The decision stemmed from a challenge brought by Bourassa and Varnell, and also a lesbian couple, who were were united in a ceremony at Metropolitan Community Church of Toronto in January 2001. The Toronto couples sued after the province refused to register their unions.
The Ontario court's decision retroactively declared the January 2001 unions valid.
The 61-page decision said, "The existing common law definition of marriage violates the couple's equality rights on the basis of sexual orientation under [constitutional law]."
Ottawa, which decided not to appeal the ruling, and another by a British Columbia court, has moved ahead with plans for a bill that would make same-sex marriage the law of the land.
rail,
I really don't understand why you harp on this issue so much, you must be one serious homophobe.
Science, to some extent (DNA mapping) indicates homosexuality is not learned behavior. Common sense and reasoning also pretty much show that gays are born that way. Therefore infringing on people's rights due to their sexual orientation goes along the same lines as infringing on people's right for the color of their skin, so there's your lack of integrity.
If memory serves you're the one that's always playing rightous bible thumper. So what was that serenity thing, ...the strength to accept the things I cannot change..., there have always been gay people and it's a safe bet there always will be.
I really don't understand why you harp on this issue so much, you must be one serious homophobe.
Science, to some extent (DNA mapping) indicates homosexuality is not learned behavior. Common sense and reasoning also pretty much show that gays are born that way. Therefore infringing on people's rights due to their sexual orientation goes along the same lines as infringing on people's right for the color of their skin, so there's your lack of integrity.
If memory serves you're the one that's always playing rightous bible thumper. So what was that serenity thing, ...the strength to accept the things I cannot change..., there have always been gay people and it's a safe bet there always will be.
the serentity thing is from a cult called alcholic anonoymous.all things are considered new, look up Stephen Bennentt the former homo, he put bill orely in his place, stephen is now a minister.
Homosexuality is a serious sin, and is a choice, science is wrong more than there right. Science changes opinions year to year, the Word of God is always right and will be standing when these incorrect scien
are food for worms.
Homosexuality is a serious sin, and is a choice, science is wrong more than there right. Science changes opinions year to year, the Word of God is always right and will be standing when these incorrect scien
are food for worms."look up Stephen Bennentt the former homo"
If he's a "former homo" than either he never was or he is now a non-practicing homosexual.
You choose to deny science fine, then use your brain. We'll go into the common sense aspect. 2 boys say about 12 years old are looking at nudey mags, one gets a stiffing looking at women, the other gets a stiffing looking at men, that's not a choice! I mean come on think about it, what person is going to decide to become part of a discriminated minority, rejected by friends and family, deemed a sinner by the religious, etc. It just doesn't make sense.
"Homosexuality is a serious sin, and is a choice, science is wrong more than there right. Science changes opinions year to year, the Word of God is always right"
It's a sinner in your religion, I can't say if it is in all or any others, but I can say that the last time I checked the world almanac Christianity only makes up like 33% of the world's religions.
God is always right you say so here's a question. I believe the same bible that says that homosexuality is a sin also says that God is all powerful. If God is all powerful can he create a stone so large he can't move it?
[This message was edited by kaya man on September 23, 2003 at 05:27 PM.]
If he's a "former homo" than either he never was or he is now a non-practicing homosexual.
You choose to deny science fine, then use your brain. We'll go into the common sense aspect. 2 boys say about 12 years old are looking at nudey mags, one gets a stiffing looking at women, the other gets a stiffing looking at men, that's not a choice! I mean come on think about it, what person is going to decide to become part of a discriminated minority, rejected by friends and family, deemed a sinner by the religious, etc. It just doesn't make sense.
"Homosexuality is a serious sin, and is a choice, science is wrong more than there right. Science changes opinions year to year, the Word of God is always right"
It's a sinner in your religion, I can't say if it is in all or any others, but I can say that the last time I checked the world almanac Christianity only makes up like 33% of the world's religions.
God is always right you say so here's a question. I believe the same bible that says that homosexuality is a sin also says that God is all powerful. If God is all powerful can he create a stone so large he can't move it?
[This message was edited by kaya man on September 23, 2003 at 05:27 PM.]
"Homosexuality is a serious sin, and is a choice"
Hmm. I never chose to like blonde women, but I do. Come to think of it, I like brunettes and redheads too but I never "chose" to like them. Nor did I "choose" to like women.
I don't know anyone who says to themselves "I think I'll choose to be attracted to someone of my own sex." Sexual orientation is not a choice.
Hmm. I never chose to like blonde women, but I do. Come to think of it, I like brunettes and redheads too but I never "chose" to like them. Nor did I "choose" to like women.
I don't know anyone who says to themselves "I think I'll choose to be attracted to someone of my own sex." Sexual orientation is not a choice.
If I may give my opinion, I would like to say that I think that the homosexual lifestyle is a choice just like all things. I've seen it time and again. For example, some women won't do certain things
however, if the price is right (money, clothes, etc.) they will relent. Or I can choose to rear end a guy even if I'm straight. I can choose to blow my brains out or someone else's.
That's why I'm a huge believer in actions and consequences and if someone wants to be gay and it's not legal in that jurisdiction then by all means, go somewhere else.
I understand your reasoning, BigGamesOnly, but I've spoken with people that can't get any action with the opposite sex and figure that being gay is better than being alone. I know one particular person that has told me that she would "change" for the right guy. I kind of played the other side and reminded her that she was born that way and thus could not change. She shrugged it off. She's not really all there anyway.
Dissenting opinions please respond
That's why I'm a huge believer in actions and consequences and if someone wants to be gay and it's not legal in that jurisdiction then by all means, go somewhere else.
I understand your reasoning, BigGamesOnly, but I've spoken with people that can't get any action with the opposite sex and figure that being gay is better than being alone. I know one particular person that has told me that she would "change" for the right guy. I kind of played the other side and reminded her that she was born that way and thus could not change. She shrugged it off. She's not really all there anyway.
Dissenting opinions please respond
some homosexual people are born with a strong in built attraction to the same sex, others with a a strong attraction to the opposite sex, the majority, still others are conditioned via a number of reasons, be them choice or not, towards homosexuality. All in all, as with many things in life, a clear personal choice for sexual orientation is imo what happens only to a very minute minority of the population.
Differences in sexual orientation should first of all not be overemphasised, and also respected in a civilised society. However usually in any society those that deviate from the norm, and not only in terms of their sexuality, have a hard time by the flock, due to envy, fear, ignorance or a combination of these.
Differences in sexual orientation should first of all not be overemphasised, and also respected in a civilised society. However usually in any society those that deviate from the norm, and not only in terms of their sexuality, have a hard time by the flock, due to envy, fear, ignorance or a combination of these.
Uncle Moneybags,
You called for disenting opinions, but you seem to have your mind made up.
IMO it's just common sense that it's not a choice. As I've already said choosing to be part of a discriminated upon minority just makes no sense. Aside from that if a person simply feels no sexual attraction to the same sex how would they fake it? Like BigGamesOnly pointed out we don't choose who we're attracted to you just feel it. I grew up in a rural area of the states with virtually no black population yet black women make me crazy, how do I explain that? I've had gay friends, been hit on by gays, etc. yet some how never felt any urge or even curiosity, as a matter of fact while I have nothing against them, the thought of any graphic description of what they do in private makes me a little queasy. Could I just get over that or something and decide to become gay, of course not, that's silly, either a person has the tendencies or doesn't. Some guys like obese women, some guys like anorexic women, some guys like other guys, I don't see how it could possibly construed as a choice. I think one of the reasons some people make the mistake of calling it a choice is because they fail to recognize that there are also people that are truely bi-sexual and feel attracted to both sexes.
I don't mean this as an insult towards you but I have to comment on this statement...
"but I've spoken with people that can't get any action with the opposite sex and figure that being gay is better than being alone."
In all honesty the gay people I know and I would imagine most gay people in general would find that quite offensive.
You called for disenting opinions, but you seem to have your mind made up.
IMO it's just common sense that it's not a choice. As I've already said choosing to be part of a discriminated upon minority just makes no sense. Aside from that if a person simply feels no sexual attraction to the same sex how would they fake it? Like BigGamesOnly pointed out we don't choose who we're attracted to you just feel it. I grew up in a rural area of the states with virtually no black population yet black women make me crazy, how do I explain that? I've had gay friends, been hit on by gays, etc. yet some how never felt any urge or even curiosity, as a matter of fact while I have nothing against them, the thought of any graphic description of what they do in private makes me a little queasy. Could I just get over that or something and decide to become gay, of course not, that's silly, either a person has the tendencies or doesn't. Some guys like obese women, some guys like anorexic women, some guys like other guys, I don't see how it could possibly construed as a choice. I think one of the reasons some people make the mistake of calling it a choice is because they fail to recognize that there are also people that are truely bi-sexual and feel attracted to both sexes.
I don't mean this as an insult towards you but I have to comment on this statement...
"but I've spoken with people that can't get any action with the opposite sex and figure that being gay is better than being alone."
In all honesty the gay people I know and I would imagine most gay people in general would find that quite offensive.
Kman
You like black women. That doesn't mean to have to be with one. My point isn't whether they're faking being gay or curious but rather the actual choice of it. I am straight, but physically I can penetrate another male's posterior whether or not I do that is another story.
We disagree. That's fine. I wasn't trying to get you to change your mind or vice versa. I merely wanted to open the lines of discussion.
The statement you mentioned is about a particular person that would have to be seen to be understood. Her age is 18 years younger than what I thought. She's just had a hard life and I use that term loosely. For her it's clearly a choice. She used to be married for a while. She's got kids. If she is gay then she was choosing to be straight and if you can choose to be straight then it would make sense that you can choose to be gay.
I don't think that we can change each other's mind but for the undecided's of the world we might be able to help shape their views. I'm not one for the you can do it or change the world or any of that crap but this really isn't going out of my way. As you can see, I don't really have many posts but am going to try to change that. Not necessarily here, but in general.
Have a nice day
You like black women. That doesn't mean to have to be with one. My point isn't whether they're faking being gay or curious but rather the actual choice of it. I am straight, but physically I can penetrate another male's posterior whether or not I do that is another story.
We disagree. That's fine. I wasn't trying to get you to change your mind or vice versa. I merely wanted to open the lines of discussion.
The statement you mentioned is about a particular person that would have to be seen to be understood. Her age is 18 years younger than what I thought. She's just had a hard life and I use that term loosely. For her it's clearly a choice. She used to be married for a while. She's got kids. If she is gay then she was choosing to be straight and if you can choose to be straight then it would make sense that you can choose to be gay.
I don't think that we can change each other's mind but for the undecided's of the world we might be able to help shape their views. I'm not one for the you can do it or change the world or any of that crap but this really isn't going out of my way. As you can see, I don't really have many posts but am going to try to change that. Not necessarily here, but in general.
Have a nice day
Uncle:
It's my opinion that people who can't get action with the opposite sex and *choose* to get sex from their own sex do not *choose* their attraction toward their own sex. Either they were already attracted to their own sex and are bisexual, or else they are not attracted to their own sex and are getting action just to relieve themselves. Either way, I don't believe they choose to change their attraction.
When a woman relents to having sex for money or clothes doesn't mean she is attracted to having sex with strangers. In fact, most prostitutes hate the job they are in. They don't choose to be attracted to strangers.
That's what I was getting at.
It's my opinion that people who can't get action with the opposite sex and *choose* to get sex from their own sex do not *choose* their attraction toward their own sex. Either they were already attracted to their own sex and are bisexual, or else they are not attracted to their own sex and are getting action just to relieve themselves. Either way, I don't believe they choose to change their attraction.
When a woman relents to having sex for money or clothes doesn't mean she is attracted to having sex with strangers. In fact, most prostitutes hate the job they are in. They don't choose to be attracted to strangers.
That's what I was getting at.
The original issue here was crossing the border. These homos (not that there's anything wrong with being a homo) were trying to enter the USA without proper documentation, thus illegally.
I, for one, applaud the border patrol for strictly enforcing the entry requirements. In fact, a little profiling of young, Middle-Eastern males would be greatly appreciated.
VVV
I, for one, applaud the border patrol for strictly enforcing the entry requirements. In fact, a little profiling of young, Middle-Eastern males would be greatly appreciated.
VVV
I hated brocoli when I was little, now I like brocoli. People aquire a taste for things. I would love to jump off a 30 story building, but there would be consequences so I dont do it. Also people start to believe lies, you get told a lie your whole life,especially when you are young you start to believe it.
90% of gay men, had no fathers in there life. I know a lot of lesbians turn lesbian because guys dont ask them out. Most 8 th grade teachers are liars, more men should be teachers, but they are underpaid.
90% of gay men, had no fathers in there life. I know a lot of lesbians turn lesbian because guys dont ask them out. Most 8 th grade teachers are liars, more men should be teachers, but they are underpaid.
Vini,
They were trying to enter the US with the proper documentation, presenting one form declairing themselves as a legal family. The US border wanted them to fill in separate customs declarations which would be infact an illegal entry.
Sound like the boarder guards should head to Iraq and get picked off with the rest of the unjust invaiders.
I'D RATHER BE DEAD THAN AMERICAN!!!
GOOD OL' RED WHITE AND BLOW ME!!!!!!!!!
They were trying to enter the US with the proper documentation, presenting one form declairing themselves as a legal family. The US border wanted them to fill in separate customs declarations which would be infact an illegal entry.
Sound like the boarder guards should head to Iraq and get picked off with the rest of the unjust invaiders.
I'D RATHER BE DEAD THAN AMERICAN!!!
GOOD OL' RED WHITE AND BLOW ME!!!!!!!!!
These liberals are always talking about freedom of choice when defending these psycho social behaviours.
If it's all about choice, why shouldn't it be legal for father and daughter to marry, or son and mom. Shouldn't that be included in a freedon of chocie too?
If society caved in to every distorted social behaviour in the name of choice, it would be a pretty fcked up place to live.
------------------------------
Pat Buchanan and Bill O'Reilly for the White House
If it's all about choice, why shouldn't it be legal for father and daughter to marry, or son and mom. Shouldn't that be included in a freedon of chocie too?
If society caved in to every distorted social behaviour in the name of choice, it would be a pretty fcked up place to live.
------------------------------
Pat Buchanan and Bill O'Reilly for the White House
