All Things, Trayvon Martin / George Zimmerman

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You do realize that all the evidence has not been released yet, correct? It's been stated in many reports that the prosecutor still has about 10% of evidence that has not been made public. I have given you my opinion of this case based on what facts I know. I have told you numerous times, I will not speculate on what happened when I do not know all the facts. Here is a piece from an article I just read and will post the link so you can read it for yourself that no one else has mentioned yet.

One witness told police he saw Martin pummeling Zimmerman like a mixed martial arts expert: "The one guy on top in the black hoodie was pretty much just throwing down blows on the guy, kinda MMA style."

But another witness description is murkier: "Saw a fist fight, just fist, I don't know who was hitting who, and I went back to turn off the stove, and by the time I walked by I heard a shot."

Some of the case's most important evidence has yet to be made public, including Zimmerman's three interviews with police, and his cell phone records. CBS News learned that includes texts Zimmerman sent after the shooting. Some of them disparage leaders of "Justice for Trayvon" rallies with language described as offensive.




So, it looks like someone also saw a fist fight. But he doesn't know who was hitting who. He doesn't say he saw one guy punch the other and then get on top of him. Just a fist fight. So, like I have submitted all along, who started this fist fight? Unfortunately, no one except Zimmerman knows. Martin had a bruised eye and we do not know when he got this bruise. Could it have been during this fist fight and if so, who threw the first punch? These are all questions that still need to be answered and until they are I won't speculate as to what happen. And its obvious the prosecution still has some key evidence that we have not seen yet. Whether this evidence has any real value remains to be seen.

http://www.cbsnews.com/8301-18563_1...n-martin-shooting/?tag=cbsnewsLeadStoriesArea

The witness sees a fight, then walks away to turn off a stove and then walked back. That witness did not witness the entire altercation.

Guys, we're just going to go round and round about this and it will get us nowhere. We'll all just agree to disagree and in the end I think we can all agree though that it's just a tragedy.

Think the few things we just all disagree with are...

1) How this could've been avoided. I think they're both at fault but we'll see.
2) Was the shooting an act of self defense or not.
3) Who initiated the physical contact.

Now a jury will decide those things in October.
 

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We also know that this conversation wouldn't be taking place had he not assaulted Zimmerman as well. Is that incorrect?

Since we don't know that he DID assault Zimmerman, that statement is possibly incorrect. You're assuming that Martin started it, and that is an assumption, not proven fact. Self defense is not assault, you don't seem to be able to grasp that concept.##):think2::pointer::hitting::boxer:
 

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Since we don't know that he DID assault Zimmerman, that statement is possibly incorrect. You're assuming that Martin started it, and that is an assumption, not proven fact. Self defense is not assault, you don't seem to be able to grasp that concept.##):think2::pointer::hitting::boxer:

Again, we'll agree to disagree.
 

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Harvard Prof. Alan Dershowitz: Zimmerman Arrest Affidavit ‘Irresponsible And Unethical’

video
by Noah Rothman | 6:19 pm, April 12th, 2012
» 715 comments Harvard University law professor Alan Dershowitz appeared on MSNBC’s Hardball where fill-in host Michel Smerconish asked him his opinions of the arrest warrant issued and carried out for alleged Trayvon Martin murderer, George Zimmerman. Dershowitz called the affidavit justifying Zimmerman’s arrest “not only thin, it’s irresponsible.” He went on to criticize the decision to charge Zimmerman for second degree murder by special prosecutor Angela Corey as being politically motivated.
RELATED: Trayvon Martin’s Mother Following Zimmerman Arrest: ‘The Heart Has No Color’
“You’ve seen the affidavit of probable cause. What do you make of it,” Smerconish asked. “It won’t suffice,” Dershowitz replied without hesitation.
“Most affidavits of probable cause are very thin. This is so thin that it won’t make it past a judge on a second degree murder charge,” Dershowitz said. “There’s simply nothing in there that would justify second degree murder.”
Dershowitz said that the elements that would constitute that crime are non-existent in the affidavit. “It’s not only thin, it’s irresponsible,” said Dershowitz.
Dershowitz went on to strongly criticize Corey’s decision to move forward with the case against Zimmerman. “I think what you have here is an elected public official who made a campaign speech last night for reelection when she gave her presentation and overcharged. This case will not – if the evidence is no stronger than what appears in the probable cause affidavit – this case will result in an acquittal.”
Smerconish identified the total lack of any mention of the supposed fight that occurred between Martin and Zimmerman prior to Martin being shot. He said he was disappointed that he did not see any mention of that conflict that led to Martin’s murder.
“But it’s worse than that,” said Dershowitz. “It’s irresponsible and unethical in not including material that favors the defendant.”
“This affidavit does not even make it to probable cause,” Dershowitz concluded. “everything in the affidavit is completely consistent with a defense of self-defense. Everything.”
Watch the segment below via MSNBC:
 

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Dershowitz: Fire Prosecutor in Trayvon Martin Case



Friday, 04 May 2012 04:49 PM
By Martin Gould and Kathleen Walter



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The special prosecutor in charge of trying Trayvon Martin’s killer should be fired from the case because she has made it clear that her priority is to “get” George Zimmerman, says leading appeals case lawyer Alan Dershowitz in an exclusive Newsmax TV interview.

Florida Gov. Rick Scott should never have appointed Angela Corey to the racially sensitive case in the first place, added the Harvard law professor.

“She has a terrible reputation in Florida for over-charging and being political and holding her finger to the wind and seeing which way the wind is blowing,” said Dershowitz, who has been an outspoken critic of the handling of the case.

See our exclusive interview below. Story continues below video.




And Corey has already made missteps in her handling of Zimmerman’s prosecution, Dershowitz charged.

“This prosecutor says she is here to do justice for Trayvon Martin and that is not the job of a prosecutor. The job of a prosecutor is to do justice period, to let the chips fall where they may, and even to resolve doubts in favor of the defendant.

“Remember, it’s only the defendant who is on trial.”

Dershowitz was speaking as the sensational case took another new twist with the Orlando Sentinel reporting Friday that Zimmerman now claims that Martin “circled” his vehicle while he was phoning police. An unnamed source said that Zimmerman said he rolled up his window because he was unnerved by the teen’s behavior.

The source also said police have doubts about Zimmerman’s story because of inconsistencies which include a claim that during a struggle Martin had his hand over the neighborhood watch captain’s mouth.

“Authorities do not believe that happened,” the Sentinel quotes the source as saying. “On one 911 call, someone can be heard screaming for help. If it were Zimmerman, as he claims, his cries were not muffled.”

To read Dershowitz's analysis of polo magnate John Goodman's manslaughter case, click here.

Dershowitz said the evidence that Corey has presented does not justify a charge of second-degree murder, and he does not believe a jury will find Zimmerman guilty of that charge. “The issue is whether or not there will be a verdict of either voluntary or involuntary manslaughter or a verdict of acquittal,” he said, drawing parallels with last year’s trial of Casey Anthony, who was charged in the murder of her daughter.

“In the Casey Anthony case, the Florida prosecutor made the same mistake this prosecutor made – over-charged, charged murder. The jurors looked around and said I don’t see the evidence, so they acquitted completely. There is a risk that there will be an acquittal in this case even if there is some justification for a conviction if the charge is too great.”

Dershowitz said he worries that the case could lead to civil unrest because of its racial undertones. “My fear is that the prosecutor has raised expectations and if you raise expectations and then the jury lowers the expectations, that has the ingredient for a potential riot.

“The prosecutor has acted irresponsibly by charging second-degree murder in a case where the evidence just doesn’t seem to support that verdict.”

But he said that jurors must be careful not to be influenced by the potential for violence when they consider the verdict, and that is why he favors a change of venue from Seminole County, where Martin was killed on Feb. 26.

“There cannot be justice for Zimmerman in any of the county where this case took place. It has to be moved to somewhere where the jurors will feel that they could come to either verdict without having to worry about their safety or the safety of their family.

“Right now if a juror were to vote for an acquittal they would have to be concerned about what the implications would be. Would the New Black Panther Party put out a bounty on their lives? Would their families’ safety be influenced? It is very important that jurors feel free to come to whatever verdict is the just one.

“You can’t have a criminal justice system held hostage to the mob,” he said. “There was a very scary article in the Daily Beast recently where some lawyer urged the defense lawyer in the Zimmerman case to please plead his client guilty to avoid riots. You just can’t deal with situations that way.

“A defense attorney’s job is to get his client the best possible verdict he can. The justice system simply cannot be influenced by outside mobs and outside pressures.

“The Supreme Court has held that repeatedly. Most of the cases in which they have held up, the pressures have been against black defendants in the segregated South in the 1930s and 1940s, but the same principles apply here too. You can’t worry that there might be Rodney King-type demonstrations or riots and let that influence your verdict.”

Dershowitz said the Zimmerman case should not center on race, but on Florida’s controversial Stand Your Ground law. “It’s a subtle case. It’s not obvious what the result should be. It’s very fact-driven and fact-specific and people shouldn’t be rooting for an outcome before all the facts are known. They should be rooting for justice.”

He said it is time for the Stand Your Ground law – which he called “far too broad” – to be re-examined.

“Assume I’m driving the sort of fancy car that can go from 0 to 60 in two seconds and somebody comes up to my window with a knife. I have two options, I can take my gun out and kill him or I can put my foot on the gas and escape. Under Florida’s Stand Your Ground law, you can pull out your gun and kill him because that’s the macho, manly thing to do.

“But most reasonable people would think that in a situation like that, you should put your foot on the gas and run away and not take a human life.”

He also said it is good that the case has focused attention on gun laws, claiming that most law enforcement officials oppose laws that allow weapons to be sold in flea markets without background checks.

“We have seen a clash between a lobby on the one hand, the National Rifle Association, which represents gun sellers, manufacturers and gun owners and users, and on the other hand, people concerned about law enforcement.

“There is a right under the Constitution, under the Second Amendment, to have guns for self-defense and for family protection and presumably for hunting, but reasonable regulations of such guns are the essence of a free society.”



Read more on Newsmax.com: Dershowitz: Fire Prosecutor in Trayvon Martin Case
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By the way Dershowitz is a self-avowed liberal democrat.
 

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Proving once again that liberals can differ completely on any given subject....whereas every repub here and elsewhere has stayed true to the company line. What a bunch of sheep.
 

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Proving once again that liberals can differ completely on any given subject....whereas every repub here and elsewhere has stayed true to the company line. What a bunch of sheep.

It proves nothing and your remark missed the dart board again. You guys tried to turn this into a political football for Obama to spike somewhere down the road. Guys like Dershowitz are sticklers for justice. The sheep are you guys who have blown up that incident and failed miserably trying to make it about race (something Dershowitz does not mention) and to attempt to turn an isolated event into something monumental for all the wrong reasons. Even your own guys like Dershowitz have to back away when you and the rest of your flock overrun the pasture. Too many guys like you, whereas guys like Dershowitz are made of a little more substance. Republicans jumped on the incident to point out the folly in the Dem's turning it into something that it was not and even one of your own guys, one who has a track record, distanced himself for all the right reasons. You are right about the sheep but wrong about the party affiliation. By the way, liberals can differ completely on any given subject only when it comes to how much money to spend.
 

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Everytime zit or one of you other loons post something like " even liberal so and so said this about obama.". It just proves my point. Liberals can form their own opinions on things. Why do you think every single repub in here has basically the same opinion in this case? Why do you think obama couldn't get done everything he wanted to when the entire govt was controlled by dems? Why do you think Bush got everything he wanted fom repubs? It is the difference between the dem and repub party. You guys all fall in line as party. Always to the right....the only mystery is how far right.

This incident has a racist element to it. Zimmerman thought the guy looked suspicious because he was a young black kid. If he looked like you walking down the street nothing would have happened. Of course the usual suspects here won't see that and disagree....and as many have pointed out about you and bfl....when someone disagrees with you....it's ignore time.
 

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Everytime zit or one of you other loons post something like " even liberal so and so said this about obama.". It just proves my point. Liberals can form their own opinions on things. Why do you think every single repub in here has basically the same opinion in this case? Why do you think obama couldn't get done everything he wanted to when the entire govt was controlled by dems? Why do you think Bush got everything he wanted fom repubs? It is the difference between the dem and repub party. You guys all fall in line as party. Always to the right....the only mystery is how far right.

This incident has a racist element to it. Zimmerman thought the guy looked suspicious because he was a young black kid. If he looked like you walking down the street nothing would have happened. Of course the usual suspects here won't see that and disagree....and as many have pointed out about you and bfl....when someone disagrees with you....it's ignore time.

The only racist element that this incident has is the one you and your fellow loons have brought to it. Blacks shoot whites all the time, oh I forgot Zimmerman is now classified as white-hispanic. The usual suspects are the loons like you who try to climb trees with no limbs. But there again you would have to be able to see the forest from the trees for starters, something liberals have a problem doing.
 

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You do realize that all the evidence has not been released yet, correct? It's been stated in many reports that the prosecutor still has about 10% of evidence that has not been made public. I have given you my opinion of this case based on what facts I know. I have told you numerous times, I will not speculate on what happened when I do not know all the facts. Here is a piece from an article I just read and will post the link so you can read it for yourself that no one else has mentioned yet.

One witness told police he saw Martin pummeling Zimmerman like a mixed martial arts expert: "The one guy on top in the black hoodie was pretty much just throwing down blows on the guy, kinda MMA style."

But another witness description is murkier: "Saw a fist fight, just fist, I don't know who was hitting who, and I went back to turn off the stove, and by the time I walked by I heard a shot."

Some of the case's most important evidence has yet to be made public, including Zimmerman's three interviews with police, and his cell phone records. CBS News learned that includes texts Zimmerman sent after the shooting. Some of them disparage leaders of "Justice for Trayvon" rallies with language described as offensive.




So, it looks like someone also saw a fist fight. But he doesn't know who was hitting who. He doesn't say he saw one guy punch the other and then get on top of him. Just a fist fight. So, like I have submitted all along, who started this fist fight? Unfortunately, no one except Zimmerman knows. Martin had a bruised eye and we do not know when he got this bruise. Could it have been during this fist fight and if so, who threw the first punch? These are all questions that still need to be answered and until they are I won't speculate as to what happen. And its obvious the prosecution still has some key evidence that we have not seen yet. Whether this evidence has any real value remains to be seen.

http://www.cbsnews.com/8301-18563_1...n-martin-shooting/?tag=cbsnewsLeadStoriesArea


WRONG

All the evidence is in.

Do your homework.
I did.
 

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The only racist element that this incident has is the one you and your fellow loons have brought to it. Blacks shoot whites all the time, oh I forgot Zimmerman is now classified as white-hispanic. The usual suspects are the loons like you who try to climb trees with no limbs. But there again you would have to be able to see the forest from the trees for starters, something liberals have a problem doing.

All your nonsense just doesn't matter. Sometimes common sense just wins out. What makes Martin suspicious by walking down the street minding his own business? Let me give you a clue....it's because he's black.
 

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Proving once again that liberals can differ completely on any given subject....whereas every repub here and elsewhere has stayed true to the company line. What a bunch of sheep.

It's funny how this is even a political event where people have to take sides. But then you get the clowns laughing about a group of bikers beating up some guy in a Prius. And it's funny how they call him a "young thug", "deserved to die", etc, etc. Then they complain when we call them racists, lol. Conservatives are funny.
 

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Wrong !
He was in a gated community, with a hooded sweatshirt on to conceal his identity, do your homework, I did.

Tell me again how you want to do my wife and kill my dogs.
 

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It's funny how this is even a political event where people have to take sides. But then you get the clowns laughing about a group of bikers beating up some guy in a Prius. And it's funny how they call him a "young thug", "deserved to die", etc, etc. Then they complain when we call them racists, lol. Conservatives are funny.

Pathetic, but funny. Walking, in a gated community, where one of his parents lived, wearing a hoodie, in the rain; whatever was he thinking?
 

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By the way Dershowitz is a self-avowed liberal democrat.

Which is not really a surprise, because he is a defense attorney/professor, and as you know, that is one pretty liberal combination.

And, that is what makes this topic such a head-scratcher for me with the lines being drawn on this forum as they are, because usually the "liberals" should be circling the wagons around the criminal defendant (Zimmerman) while the "conservatives" should be screaming for a conviction.
 
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Pathetic, but funny. Walking, in a gated community, where one of his parents lived, wearing a hoodie, in the rain; whatever was he thinking?
One thing I have been a little confused about is this gated community. I was under the impression that a gated community was like a private community where entrances are controlled and restricted only to those that live there. I mean if this area has had supposedly many breakins recently, what exactly does the gated part mean and what is its purpose? How are these outsiders supposedly getting into this "gated community"?
 

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One thing I have been a little confused about is this gated community. I was under the impression that a gated community was like a private community where entrances are controlled and restricted only to those that live there. I mean if this area has had supposedly many breakins recently, what exactly does the gated part mean and what is its purpose? How are these outsiders supposedly getting into this "gated community"?

Many of these lower income gated communities are open during the day and closed at night where you need to either be buzzed in or have a code. Some don't even close and are just called gated communities because they are surrounded by a gate. This happened at 7 o clock so I imagine it was still open. But I could be wrong since I haven't looked it up.
 

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