Chop-
I love having good conversations about sports, baseball especially. I am not offended in anyway shape or form. This is the beauty of this forum. Ask Spreadbeater. Me and him had some great posts that we didn't agree on in basketball. It's always good to hear conflicting opinions. On to my responses. :homer:
Hampton doesn't belong in the same sentence. He's a very, very average pitcher
Very commical. You better do your research my friend. Since the allstar break last season, I believe Hampton is 15-2 with a sub 3.00. Is that what you call a very very average pitcher? Hamptons pure # are better than any pitcher on the Marlins roster, including The D-Train. So I think you can go ahead and keep him in the same sentence.:lolBIG:
I'm talking about STUFF. His STUFF isn't very good at all. He's a very very average pitcher. He doesn't strike many people out. He's just a lefty who throws strikes and takes his chances that he won't get hit. I've seen him give up some of the hardest hit balls I've ever seen in person, and sometimes balls are hit right at people and sometimes they get out. He's hot right now, but he's a percentages pitcher and the thing with guy's like him is the percentages even out eventually. He relies on balls being hit at people and that doesn't win out over the long haul.
It has been proven recently that things such as batting average don't measure a hitter's performance as well as walks/AB, SO/AB, and HR/Balls in Play, etc. Batting average doesn't take walks into account and measures each hit whether it be a HR or a bleeder basehit as the same. The fact is it takes more skill to get the bat on the ball and make contact or to hit the ball out of the yard, than it does to hit the ball and hope it falls for a base hit. It's the luck factor thats involved with hitting.
What this means for guys like Mike Hampton (Percentage pitchers), is that they don't strike out many hitters because their STUFF is very very average. As a result, they have to just hope that their ball doesn't find holes. Mike Hampton's balls are being hit at people right now and he's getting outs, and that will even out. Maybe last night's game is the start of that. You will rarely see a guy like Randy Johnson, Tim Hudson, John Smoltz, AJ Burnett, Josh Beckett bla bla, give up 5 or 6 hits in a row with 2 outs. Because their stuff is just so good it's almost impossible. But with Hampton he gives up hit after hit because he isn't that good. Once again, he's just a lefty that throws strikes, he's got some season under his belt now, he's a veteran and he's learned how to be crafty in some spots and get out of jams, but once again he is very very average. He will have his streaks where he pitches well. He will also have his streaks where he pitches poorly. These are percentages evening out on a guy who's stuff is not that good. Overall, he is very very average.
You obviously don't go much by how good a pitcher's actual PITCHES are. You are more of a "what have you done for me lately", "what you see is what you get" kind of guy. You want results.
I would say you pretty much nailed that on the head. Yes I do want results. If sports was about talent,and talent alone, there would not be any bust. How many cant miss pitchers have you seen in your life that Missed. I can think of many. Billy Koch. 100 MPH fastball, cant get anyone out, but he will always find a job, because he can hit 100 on the radar gun.
Never said I disagreed with that statement. All I was doing was setting up the fact that the Marlins have BY FAR the best team ERA in baseball right now and that can not be debated. So, if you are all about results, than here are your results.
Marlins Team ERA 1st in MLB - 2.64 Team ERA
214.2 IP 162 K's (More K's in less IP) Teams batting .222 against them (1st).
Braves Team ERA 3rd in MLB - 3.24 ERA
236 IP 154 Ks (Less K's in More IP) Teams batting .259 against them (15th)
So, judging by that, I would think you have to agree as well since you go by performance.
The Braves run of championships is comming to a close in the next 2 to 3 years. Both the Braves and Marlins have issues that they need to deal with for sure. But for year 2005 The braves are the favorite. I have been hearing people for about the last 5 seasons saying this is the year the Braves lose the division.
Yeah, but they never win anything. They can't seal the deal. They don't get it done when it counts. I'd rather keep winning the wild card in the pointless regular season, have the Braves keep winning their NL East pennants, and we'll take the WS Rings.
I absolutly promise you. With next year not being in issue. If you asked 30 GM in MLB witch 3 would you prefer for this year, and this year only with no regard to the future. At least 25 GMs if not more would take the Braves combination.
If you asked 30 GM in MLB which 3 you want with regards to now and future 30 out of 30 pick Marlins.
If you ask 30 GM who you want for this year's title run, 28 out of 30 pick Marlins.
1) Performance. They lead the entire league in every major pitching stat practically. How can you fight that logic? #2 they are going complete games, Braves have Zero. Managers love nothing more than to have rested bullpens since they are watered down anyway.
2) Future - Lets cancel this out
3) Sealing the Deal - Marlins won the World Series with these guys in 1 postseason try. Braves still trying.
4) Without being made fun of like Tulsa was trying to do (JK) I do know people in baseball organizations, and although Marlins and Braves have never been compared in the conversation, Marlins and Yankees have, and they all say they'd take the Marlins staff. No GM wants a John Smoltz who is returning to the rotation from Tommy John (even though hes doing surprisingly well), a very good and solid Tim Hudson and an overachiever, average lefty like Hampton over the Marlins starting three. It's just not logical. If you have any friends in baseball, scouts, friends of GMs anything give them a call. I still talk to friends on a daily basis. What I'm saying isn't very far-fetched if you put yourself in a GM's shoes.
Anyways, I gotta roll. I'll check your response out later, buddy.
Later.
I love having good conversations about sports, baseball especially. I am not offended in anyway shape or form. This is the beauty of this forum. Ask Spreadbeater. Me and him had some great posts that we didn't agree on in basketball. It's always good to hear conflicting opinions. On to my responses. :homer:
Hampton doesn't belong in the same sentence. He's a very, very average pitcher
Very commical. You better do your research my friend. Since the allstar break last season, I believe Hampton is 15-2 with a sub 3.00. Is that what you call a very very average pitcher? Hamptons pure # are better than any pitcher on the Marlins roster, including The D-Train. So I think you can go ahead and keep him in the same sentence.:lolBIG:
I'm talking about STUFF. His STUFF isn't very good at all. He's a very very average pitcher. He doesn't strike many people out. He's just a lefty who throws strikes and takes his chances that he won't get hit. I've seen him give up some of the hardest hit balls I've ever seen in person, and sometimes balls are hit right at people and sometimes they get out. He's hot right now, but he's a percentages pitcher and the thing with guy's like him is the percentages even out eventually. He relies on balls being hit at people and that doesn't win out over the long haul.
It has been proven recently that things such as batting average don't measure a hitter's performance as well as walks/AB, SO/AB, and HR/Balls in Play, etc. Batting average doesn't take walks into account and measures each hit whether it be a HR or a bleeder basehit as the same. The fact is it takes more skill to get the bat on the ball and make contact or to hit the ball out of the yard, than it does to hit the ball and hope it falls for a base hit. It's the luck factor thats involved with hitting.
What this means for guys like Mike Hampton (Percentage pitchers), is that they don't strike out many hitters because their STUFF is very very average. As a result, they have to just hope that their ball doesn't find holes. Mike Hampton's balls are being hit at people right now and he's getting outs, and that will even out. Maybe last night's game is the start of that. You will rarely see a guy like Randy Johnson, Tim Hudson, John Smoltz, AJ Burnett, Josh Beckett bla bla, give up 5 or 6 hits in a row with 2 outs. Because their stuff is just so good it's almost impossible. But with Hampton he gives up hit after hit because he isn't that good. Once again, he's just a lefty that throws strikes, he's got some season under his belt now, he's a veteran and he's learned how to be crafty in some spots and get out of jams, but once again he is very very average. He will have his streaks where he pitches well. He will also have his streaks where he pitches poorly. These are percentages evening out on a guy who's stuff is not that good. Overall, he is very very average.
You obviously don't go much by how good a pitcher's actual PITCHES are. You are more of a "what have you done for me lately", "what you see is what you get" kind of guy. You want results.
I would say you pretty much nailed that on the head. Yes I do want results. If sports was about talent,and talent alone, there would not be any bust. How many cant miss pitchers have you seen in your life that Missed. I can think of many. Billy Koch. 100 MPH fastball, cant get anyone out, but he will always find a job, because he can hit 100 on the radar gun.
Never said I disagreed with that statement. All I was doing was setting up the fact that the Marlins have BY FAR the best team ERA in baseball right now and that can not be debated. So, if you are all about results, than here are your results.
Marlins Team ERA 1st in MLB - 2.64 Team ERA
214.2 IP 162 K's (More K's in less IP) Teams batting .222 against them (1st).
Braves Team ERA 3rd in MLB - 3.24 ERA
236 IP 154 Ks (Less K's in More IP) Teams batting .259 against them (15th)
So, judging by that, I would think you have to agree as well since you go by performance.
The Braves run of championships is comming to a close in the next 2 to 3 years. Both the Braves and Marlins have issues that they need to deal with for sure. But for year 2005 The braves are the favorite. I have been hearing people for about the last 5 seasons saying this is the year the Braves lose the division.
Yeah, but they never win anything. They can't seal the deal. They don't get it done when it counts. I'd rather keep winning the wild card in the pointless regular season, have the Braves keep winning their NL East pennants, and we'll take the WS Rings.
I absolutly promise you. With next year not being in issue. If you asked 30 GM in MLB witch 3 would you prefer for this year, and this year only with no regard to the future. At least 25 GMs if not more would take the Braves combination.
If you asked 30 GM in MLB which 3 you want with regards to now and future 30 out of 30 pick Marlins.
If you ask 30 GM who you want for this year's title run, 28 out of 30 pick Marlins.
1) Performance. They lead the entire league in every major pitching stat practically. How can you fight that logic? #2 they are going complete games, Braves have Zero. Managers love nothing more than to have rested bullpens since they are watered down anyway.
2) Future - Lets cancel this out
3) Sealing the Deal - Marlins won the World Series with these guys in 1 postseason try. Braves still trying.
4) Without being made fun of like Tulsa was trying to do (JK) I do know people in baseball organizations, and although Marlins and Braves have never been compared in the conversation, Marlins and Yankees have, and they all say they'd take the Marlins staff. No GM wants a John Smoltz who is returning to the rotation from Tommy John (even though hes doing surprisingly well), a very good and solid Tim Hudson and an overachiever, average lefty like Hampton over the Marlins starting three. It's just not logical. If you have any friends in baseball, scouts, friends of GMs anything give them a call. I still talk to friends on a daily basis. What I'm saying isn't very far-fetched if you put yourself in a GM's shoes.
Anyways, I gotta roll. I'll check your response out later, buddy.
Later.
No GM wants a John Smoltz who is returning to the rotation
I promise you, all 30 teams in the big leagues would welcome John Smoltz to there starting rotation.:lolBIG:
I guess your opinion and my opinion of a great pitcher is 2 different things. You seem to believe a pitcher has to have great stuff to be a great pitcher. Based on the way you see things, you probably think Greg Maddox was just a very average pitcher who got lucky. Of course Josh Beckett is a much better pitcher than Greg Maddox ever was, because Maddox just got lucky with has average stuff, letting the hitters hit it to the fielders hopping the ball does not find a hole. Lucky for him he managed to do that over 300 times during his career and lucked into a few wins with his 87 MPH fastball.
This is the bottem line. You are a Flordia fan, Im a Braves fan. Lets just hope both teams make the post season, and both Front offices do there jobs in the offseason so these teams can compete with the other 3 teams in the division. All in bigger markets than the Braves and Marlins.
Flordia has 2 rings, by the way the Braves have 3:lolBIG: . I hope the Flordia organization does not have a garage sale at the end of the season like they have done the after the last 2 World Series teams.
I promise you, all 30 teams in the big leagues would welcome John Smoltz to there starting rotation.:lolBIG:
I guess your opinion and my opinion of a great pitcher is 2 different things. You seem to believe a pitcher has to have great stuff to be a great pitcher. Based on the way you see things, you probably think Greg Maddox was just a very average pitcher who got lucky. Of course Josh Beckett is a much better pitcher than Greg Maddox ever was, because Maddox just got lucky with has average stuff, letting the hitters hit it to the fielders hopping the ball does not find a hole. Lucky for him he managed to do that over 300 times during his career and lucked into a few wins with his 87 MPH fastball.
This is the bottem line. You are a Flordia fan, Im a Braves fan. Lets just hope both teams make the post season, and both Front offices do there jobs in the offseason so these teams can compete with the other 3 teams in the division. All in bigger markets than the Braves and Marlins.
Flordia has 2 rings, by the way the Braves have 3:lolBIG: . I hope the Flordia organization does not have a garage sale at the end of the season like they have done the after the last 2 World Series teams.
Florida didnt really have a garage sale last season. They let some high priced talent go, but this year clearly shows that they are committed to winning. As a florida fan, it seems a bit silly to see what they have paid for delgado and lo duca when they are replacing pudge and dlee. For that money they could have kept those guys.
Atlanta has the type of team to get in the postseason. Florida has the type of team that wins in the postseason. To elaborate: Atlanta has pitchers with more durable arms due to the stuff they throw. Placement pitchers that out think hiters. Its a bit different now with Smoltz back in rotation, but the Braves have always had a durable staff. By the time they get to postseason, that type of pitching doesnt win series and those arms are spent from all those innings.
The Marlins rotation is built much more for the postseason. Flamethrowers with wicked breaking pitches. Problem is guys like that breakdown...and sometimes that is an advantage (if they make it back and the team makes the playoffs). That happened in 2003 with Beckett and he was hitting midseason stride in the postseason due to time missed from injury. The Marlins collection of bullpen staff is pretty impressive imo. They clearly addressed what was their biggest problem last year (middle relief). Their closer situation is not good with Mota injury, but if he comes back they will be ok, and if he doesnt i am 100% sure the front office will get a closer. Although Fla is the type of team to win in the postseason, that doesnt mean they get there.
Heres a few thoughts of mine between these 2 teams:
If Bobby Cox and Leo had Floridas team they would win over 105 games,
Atlanta is hurt by the fact they are owned by a corporation that doesnt spend or make midseason moves. Tom Martin has to be the worst acquisition before the deadline in Schuerholz' career.
Florida ownership one of the best in midseason moves and offseason acquisitions. The pickups/trades in 2003 were great. They followed that up with the moronic decision to let ivan go, but the dodger trade last year shows what they are made of, as well as the 2005 offseason pickups.
2003 Florida team, pitching staff wise....WAY BETTER. Penny,Redman, Pavano, Beckett and Dontrelle with Urbina and Looper was a great collection imo. That team with DLee and Pudge much better too. 2005 edition is good, but nothing like that team.
Brian moehler was a steal for florida. guy has done great work.
Hudson and Smoltz give ATL something they havent had in last few years...BIG GAME PITCHERS. If horacio gets healthy, they will be a threat in the playoffs.
I think both of these teams will go to the playoffs.
Atlanta has the type of team to get in the postseason. Florida has the type of team that wins in the postseason. To elaborate: Atlanta has pitchers with more durable arms due to the stuff they throw. Placement pitchers that out think hiters. Its a bit different now with Smoltz back in rotation, but the Braves have always had a durable staff. By the time they get to postseason, that type of pitching doesnt win series and those arms are spent from all those innings.
The Marlins rotation is built much more for the postseason. Flamethrowers with wicked breaking pitches. Problem is guys like that breakdown...and sometimes that is an advantage (if they make it back and the team makes the playoffs). That happened in 2003 with Beckett and he was hitting midseason stride in the postseason due to time missed from injury. The Marlins collection of bullpen staff is pretty impressive imo. They clearly addressed what was their biggest problem last year (middle relief). Their closer situation is not good with Mota injury, but if he comes back they will be ok, and if he doesnt i am 100% sure the front office will get a closer. Although Fla is the type of team to win in the postseason, that doesnt mean they get there.
Heres a few thoughts of mine between these 2 teams:
If Bobby Cox and Leo had Floridas team they would win over 105 games,
Atlanta is hurt by the fact they are owned by a corporation that doesnt spend or make midseason moves. Tom Martin has to be the worst acquisition before the deadline in Schuerholz' career.
Florida ownership one of the best in midseason moves and offseason acquisitions. The pickups/trades in 2003 were great. They followed that up with the moronic decision to let ivan go, but the dodger trade last year shows what they are made of, as well as the 2005 offseason pickups.
2003 Florida team, pitching staff wise....WAY BETTER. Penny,Redman, Pavano, Beckett and Dontrelle with Urbina and Looper was a great collection imo. That team with DLee and Pudge much better too. 2005 edition is good, but nothing like that team.
Brian moehler was a steal for florida. guy has done great work.
Hudson and Smoltz give ATL something they havent had in last few years...BIG GAME PITCHERS. If horacio gets healthy, they will be a threat in the playoffs.
I think both of these teams will go to the playoffs.
You know this is a good thread but I have to add something...........If there is a pitcher in baseball who has never lived up to all the talk it is Josh Beckett.......he has had a good WS but besides that I am still waiting for this guy to arrive.......I personally think he is way overrated..........he sucked last year and he is no more than a .500 pitcher in my book.
I would much rather hang my hat on dependable pitchers like Smoltz and Hudson, sure Beckett may have better "STUFF" but he still has not shown me a lot in the last yr and a half..........and lets not forget a few yrs back when Willis hit the scene.......he started out like gangbusters then went cold just as fast as he started. He is doing great this season but until he shows he can pitch well over the course of a full season I will hold my judgement on him also......
I would much rather hang my hat on dependable pitchers like Smoltz and Hudson, sure Beckett may have better "STUFF" but he still has not shown me a lot in the last yr and a half..........and lets not forget a few yrs back when Willis hit the scene.......he started out like gangbusters then went cold just as fast as he started. He is doing great this season but until he shows he can pitch well over the course of a full season I will hold my judgement on him also......
No GM wants a John Smoltz who is returning to the rotation
I promise you, all 30 teams in the big leagues would welcome John Smoltz to there starting rotation.:lolBIG:
LOL. Dude, that was a full sentence, you can't pick out parts of a sentence and turn them around on me. Read the rest of the sentence. A sentence is a complete thought. Of course every team would welcome John Smoltz to the rotation by himself. But I meant the whole package, for the Marlins whole package. There was more to that sentence. Smoltz isn't out of the woods yet. As the season wears on, that's when Smoltz is going to feel it the most. He hasn't started in 3 years. Everyone makes it sound like it's so easy to start throughout the course of a 162 game season. It is TAXING. Smoltz is not used to this and his numbers in general should only get worse as the season goes on. I said it plenty of times before the year, if he was going to excel, it was going to be in the beginning part of the year. That's a huge question mark. No question he has great stuff, great competitiveness, and I'll take a healthy John Smoltz in his prime over any Marlins pitcher right now. I can't speak for the future because these Marlins pitchers have shown some incredible signs and they are 24 years old. What kind of conversation is this 5 years down the road and Beckett, Willis, and Burnett are in their primes, seasoned veterans with great STUFF. They've already shown they are capable of great things. Once again, I, nor 90% of GM's would ever trade any of these guys away at age 24 showing the signs that they have for a question mark health-wise John Smoltz, a very good Tim Hudson, and a very average Mike Hampton.
I guess your opinion and my opinion of a great pitcher is 2 different things. You seem to believe a pitcher has to have great stuff to be a great pitcher. Based on the way you see things, you probably think Greg Maddox was just a very average pitcher who got lucky. Of course Josh Beckett is a much better pitcher than Greg Maddox ever was, because Maddox just got lucky with has average stuff, letting the hitters hit it to the fielders hopping the ball does not find a hole. Lucky for him he managed to do that over 300 times during his career and lucked into a few wins with his 87 MPH fastball.
OK, now you're forming opinions FOR me and arguing against them. That's just not fair. LOL. And to set the record straight, Greg Maddux had TREMENDOUS STUFF. You seem to think great STUFF means a hard fastball and that's hardly the case. And in early in Maddux's career, particularly in the minors, he topped out at 95 plenty of times. Only towards the end of his career he's tried to be more crafty and sits in the upper 80's mostly by age and choice. So, let's not skew this to make Maddux a career 87 MPH thrower. Throughout his career as he fatigued he realized the more he backed off of his fastball the more unbelievable movement he got on it. The guy had one of the nastiest fastballs in terms of location, movement, life, run, and sink to ever play the game. Oh yeah he had a decent changeup too LOL. That's great stuff and not once was the speed of his pitches mentioned.
All in bigger markets than the Braves and Marlins.
Flordia has 2 rings, by the way the Braves have 3:lolBIG: .
Marlins have been in existence far longer than the Braves and the Marlins are 2 for 2 in postseason. Sealing the deal both times. Braves are like 3 for 40 or something crazy like that. Seems that them winning a WS is more of just a "they have to win eventually for all of the times they havebeen in the postseason, even if by accident" mentality then me saying they are a dominant postseason team with a killer instict.
Yes, we are both fans, and I don't expect you to agree with me either. But you can't make up positions for me that never came out of my mouth and start defending against them just for the sake of a winning defense. LOL. Yes we are both fans and this is why sports are so fun. :toast:
I promise you, all 30 teams in the big leagues would welcome John Smoltz to there starting rotation.:lolBIG:
LOL. Dude, that was a full sentence, you can't pick out parts of a sentence and turn them around on me. Read the rest of the sentence. A sentence is a complete thought. Of course every team would welcome John Smoltz to the rotation by himself. But I meant the whole package, for the Marlins whole package. There was more to that sentence. Smoltz isn't out of the woods yet. As the season wears on, that's when Smoltz is going to feel it the most. He hasn't started in 3 years. Everyone makes it sound like it's so easy to start throughout the course of a 162 game season. It is TAXING. Smoltz is not used to this and his numbers in general should only get worse as the season goes on. I said it plenty of times before the year, if he was going to excel, it was going to be in the beginning part of the year. That's a huge question mark. No question he has great stuff, great competitiveness, and I'll take a healthy John Smoltz in his prime over any Marlins pitcher right now. I can't speak for the future because these Marlins pitchers have shown some incredible signs and they are 24 years old. What kind of conversation is this 5 years down the road and Beckett, Willis, and Burnett are in their primes, seasoned veterans with great STUFF. They've already shown they are capable of great things. Once again, I, nor 90% of GM's would ever trade any of these guys away at age 24 showing the signs that they have for a question mark health-wise John Smoltz, a very good Tim Hudson, and a very average Mike Hampton.
I guess your opinion and my opinion of a great pitcher is 2 different things. You seem to believe a pitcher has to have great stuff to be a great pitcher. Based on the way you see things, you probably think Greg Maddox was just a very average pitcher who got lucky. Of course Josh Beckett is a much better pitcher than Greg Maddox ever was, because Maddox just got lucky with has average stuff, letting the hitters hit it to the fielders hopping the ball does not find a hole. Lucky for him he managed to do that over 300 times during his career and lucked into a few wins with his 87 MPH fastball.
OK, now you're forming opinions FOR me and arguing against them. That's just not fair. LOL. And to set the record straight, Greg Maddux had TREMENDOUS STUFF. You seem to think great STUFF means a hard fastball and that's hardly the case. And in early in Maddux's career, particularly in the minors, he topped out at 95 plenty of times. Only towards the end of his career he's tried to be more crafty and sits in the upper 80's mostly by age and choice. So, let's not skew this to make Maddux a career 87 MPH thrower. Throughout his career as he fatigued he realized the more he backed off of his fastball the more unbelievable movement he got on it. The guy had one of the nastiest fastballs in terms of location, movement, life, run, and sink to ever play the game. Oh yeah he had a decent changeup too LOL. That's great stuff and not once was the speed of his pitches mentioned.
All in bigger markets than the Braves and Marlins.
Flordia has 2 rings, by the way the Braves have 3:lolBIG: .
Marlins have been in existence far longer than the Braves and the Marlins are 2 for 2 in postseason. Sealing the deal both times. Braves are like 3 for 40 or something crazy like that. Seems that them winning a WS is more of just a "they have to win eventually for all of the times they havebeen in the postseason, even if by accident" mentality then me saying they are a dominant postseason team with a killer instict.
Yes, we are both fans, and I don't expect you to agree with me either. But you can't make up positions for me that never came out of my mouth and start defending against them just for the sake of a winning defense. LOL. Yes we are both fans and this is why sports are so fun. :toast:
captain chaos said:
Fair enough. But AJ Burnett has the best stuff of any of those guys. If he can put together a full season of no injuries, people will hear more about him. Redman is another Mike Hampton type. Average lefty who throws strikes. Can spot his fastball here and there and throws an offspeed pitch for strikes. The problem with Looper is he is a bullpentype pitcher with a lack of mental toughness and a lack for the knack of coming up big. He's got closer stuff, but he can't seal the deal. Urbina was hot when he was with the Marlins.
Ok Box. Weve done our back and forth. Lets just agree to bump up this thread in October, and lets see whos right then. A friendly $10 bet says the Braves team ERA will be lower at the end of the year than Flordia. Another friendly $10 bets says the Braves win the east. Are you in ?
Considering the way everyone has been picking on this site recently, a $10 bet is not friendly, it's damn near my whole account! LOL.
In all seriousness, I am not claiming that the Marlins will definitely win the East, or that the Braves definitely won't, all I said is that they had to be the favorite up to this point, and/or that the division shouldn't be gift-wrapped for the Braves like it's a guaranteed lock. I don't have my crystal ball out for the next 130 games or so. All we were talking about were different aspects of the top-3 in the rotation in terms of projectability, stuff, age, sealing the deal, health, etc.
Clearly the 4 and 5 starters play huge roles in a team ERA, as well as bullpen. Both teams have a bit of question marks at bullpen at this point. Like I've said plenty of times before, the Marlins staff top of the rotation are a bunch of 24 year olds, they are still learning. And like I agreed with from an earlier post, the Braves are more of a grind it out and get W's over a 162 game span, while the Marlins are more of a "just make it in - and then let our talent dominate once we're there."
But why not, if you would like to make a friendly bet between fans and posters, no money involved, I will accept that the Marlins team ERA will be lower than the Braves, and that the Marlins will finish first.
:toast:
Good luck on your card today, I'll be out of town in Tampa for the weekend. Have a good weekend.
In all seriousness, I am not claiming that the Marlins will definitely win the East, or that the Braves definitely won't, all I said is that they had to be the favorite up to this point, and/or that the division shouldn't be gift-wrapped for the Braves like it's a guaranteed lock. I don't have my crystal ball out for the next 130 games or so. All we were talking about were different aspects of the top-3 in the rotation in terms of projectability, stuff, age, sealing the deal, health, etc.
Clearly the 4 and 5 starters play huge roles in a team ERA, as well as bullpen. Both teams have a bit of question marks at bullpen at this point. Like I've said plenty of times before, the Marlins staff top of the rotation are a bunch of 24 year olds, they are still learning. And like I agreed with from an earlier post, the Braves are more of a grind it out and get W's over a 162 game span, while the Marlins are more of a "just make it in - and then let our talent dominate once we're there."
But why not, if you would like to make a friendly bet between fans and posters, no money involved, I will accept that the Marlins team ERA will be lower than the Braves, and that the Marlins will finish first.
:toast:
Good luck on your card today, I'll be out of town in Tampa for the weekend. Have a good weekend.
