9/11 "jumpers"

[ScottL]

I simply want the truth. People in this country get called nutjobs , or wackos, or conspiracy theorists, or truthers or birthers by people like you if they step outside the box to look at things form an objective perspective. Searching and researching on their own to see if it jives with the official story, which more times it does not, and yet people like you say "just believe what your told or what you see on the boob tube."

Creative thinking and the abilty to think independently and question things is dead in this country because of people like you.

Your a worthtless piece of shit. So stick your head back up your ass and go back to sleep.

Objective? You claim objectivity, yet you are delusional. Everything you type in this forum is nothing but garbage - unnamed and unproven accusations against unnamed people. You are not thinking outside the box. You aren't even thinking. Sometimes the truth is as reasonable people see it. And reasonable people, all with a wide range of political leanings in this forum all recognize how foolish you act, and how you besmirch the memories of every innocent person who suffered that day and in the years since.

I have asked you for specifics at least 5 times in this thread and in others, and you keep responding by talking in circles.

If you don't believe 9/11 was a terrorist act perpetrated by radical islamists whose goal is to destroy this country and our way of life, then the burden of proof is upon you to expose who else could have done it and why. Now where are the results of all your research and all the reading you've done? Show us now, or accept the fact that you're the worthless POS with his head up his ass.

"People like me" are not "stifling your creative thinking and your ability to think independently." What's stifling you is you possess the maturity and intelligence of the average 6yo.

 

[TotalRecall]

you do know how to rile up the masses, TR

question for you...since your skepticism comes from not finding plane parts

can you point me to the evidence of the missile parts that were found in the rubble? clearly if you can't believe a lie because there's no physical evidence of an airplane then you must be able to show us all where they've recovered missile sections

looking forward to this!

Fair enough Rolltide. If we admit it's a dialectical argument for us as well, it's precisely that we can with full assurance tell you we don't know where the missle parts went. Whether they were found or not. Whether a misille even hit the buildings. When they came down it was obvious there was enough explosives to have made the man in the street who corrected the reporter with "No, no plane, explosion!!!, a correct man. What made the hole? What made a 16ft round hole in the Pentagon, but a roadrunner wide hole in the WTC, ostensibly by the same objects, streakling passenger jets?

It's not cheating to say we don't have to posit any activity or action that occurred that day. We are the defense. We are not the prosecution. We are not the Warren Commision. We are not the 9/11 Commision.

We are defending as if the planes are under indictment. We are showing the jury that you have no case against these planes. They were not there that day. They have alibis. You cannot definitively place our client the plane in the vicinity of Wall Street on that day.

The prosecution continues to argue that they were seen by thousands of people, and that should be good enough. We say bullshit. Prove that the planes were there.
Prove that a jet can dive into the ground making a small hole and dissappear completely. No one saw a plane in that hole either. Prove a plane "vaporized" (the prosecutions own words) and so evaded proper identification.

I would venture to say never in the history of aviation has this ever happened. No crash has ever left no credible evidence in the form of one of the thousands of planes parts scattered about after a crash. Especially into the ground where its really hard to vaporize lol.

So no- I don't have the answers to exactly what happened that day. There are burnt cars a 1/4 mile around the area so strangely burnt it defies physics.

All I know is if your side is claiming all that is unimportant because the planes were seen on TV. That was the mistake. Because in fact there is a piece of footage out there that does not show the planes coming in even though they should be visible.
We believe that the Media was a willing participant in the hoax. The intelligence services assisted. Our govt. is owned so stop the idea that we are saying the Govt did this. This was bigger than that. Bush Sr. signed off on a 10 year loan from Goldman Sachs with Cantor Fitzgerald to the tune of 224 billion dollars on 9-12-91.
The interest on that loan had it into the trillions when it would have come due the next day. The records of the loan were destroyed, and to plenty of other SEC cases like insider trading on the Airlines right before 9/11 were lost in Bldg 7.

10 years later you guys are still working off the emotional toll it took on you on me and others when we so much as whisper that this or that doesn't add up and we advise to research. One guy wants to punch me in the face and I can't blame him. It's a touchy subject. A wall of tears they call it, but after ten years its time we broke through it and got to the truth.

 

[superbeets]

Fair enough Rolltide. If we admit it's a dialectical argument for us as well, it's precisely that we can with full assurance tell you we don't know where the missle parts went. Whether they were found or not. Whether a misille even hit the buildings. When they came down it was obvious there was enough explosives to have made the man in the street who corrected the reporter with "No, no plane, explosion!!!, a correct man. What made the hole? What made a 16ft round hole in the Pentagon, but a roadrunner wide hole in the WTC, ostensibly by the same objects, streakling passenger jets?

It's not cheating to say we don't have to posit any activity or action that occurred that day. We are the defense. We are not the prosecution. We are not the Warren Commision. We are not the 9/11 Commision.

We are defending as if the planes are under indictment. We are showing the jury that you have no case against these planes. They were not there that day. They have alibis. You cannot definitively place our client the plane in the vicinity of Wall Street on that day.

The prosecution continues to argue that they were seen by thousands of people, and that should be good enough. We say bullshit. Prove that the planes were there.
Prove that a jet can dive into the ground making a small hole and dissappear completely. No one saw a plane in that hole either. Prove a plane "vaporized" (the prosecutions own words) and so evaded proper identification.

I would venture to say never in the history of aviation has this ever happened. No crash has ever left no credible evidence in the form of one of the thousands of planes parts scattered about after a crash. Especially into the ground where its really hard to vaporize lol.

So no- I don't have the answers to exactly what happened that day. There are burnt cars a 1/4 mile around the area so strangely burnt it defies physics.

All I know is if your side is claiming all that is unimportant because the planes were seen on TV. That was the mistake. Because in fact there is a piece of footage out there that does not show the planes coming in even though they should be visible.
We believe that the Media was a willing participant in the hoax. The intelligence services assisted. Our govt. is owned so stop the idea that we are saying the Govt did this. This was bigger than that. Bush Sr. signed off on a 10 year loan from Goldman Sachs with Cantor Fitzgerald to the tune of 224 billion dollars on 9-12-91.
The interest on that loan had it into the trillions when it would have come due the next day. The records of the loan were destroyed, and to plenty of other SEC cases like insider trading on the Airlines right before 9/11 were lost in Bldg 7.

10 years later you guys are still working off the emotional toll it took on you on me and others when we so much as whisper that this or that doesn't add up and we advise to research. One guy wants to punch me in the face and I can't blame him. It's a touchy subject. A wall of tears they call it, but after ten years its time we broke through it and got to the truth.

Can you give an estimate as to how many people would have been involved in the conspiracy/hoax that you assume, and how many people would need therefore ,had to keep this secret from the public.

 

[barman]

The video was shot by people who were in buildings blocks away. It's not that difficult when the building and everything else is in the frame. You can clearly see the bodies falling. I can't imagine making the choice that jumping is the best alternative.

Actually, my previous wording (it's tough to track the entire fall) was intended to imply that it would be tough to maintain the video connection without turning away before the end of the fall.

But yes, I'm also glad that so far I've never been confronted with such a perilous decision in my own life.

 

[steaktartar]

I simply want the truth. People in this country get called nutjobs , or wackos, or conspiracy theorists, or truthers or birthers by people like you if they step outside the box to look at things form an objective perspective. Searching and researching on their own to see if it jives with the official story, which more times it does not, and yet people like you say "just believe what your told or what you see on the boob tube."

Creative thinking and the abilty to think independently and question things is dead in this country because of people like you.

Your a worthtless piece of shit. So stick your head back up your ass and go back to sleep.

its you're not your

and its people like you that piss on the the dead and families of the dead with your paranoid stupidity.....

 

[Ricboff]

TR

'....This was bigger than that. Bush Sr. signed off on a 10 year loan from Goldman Sachs with Cantor Fitzgerald to the tune of 224 billion dollars on 9-12-91.
The interest on that loan had it into the trillions when it would have come due the next day.'

can u elaborate on this, provide specifics


thnks in advance

 

[barman]

its you're not your

..

http://www.zazzle.com/only_the_smart_people_will_cringe_tshirt-235056678955382327

 

[barman]

TR

'....This was bigger than that. Bush Sr. signed off on a 10 year loan from Goldman Sachs with Cantor Fitzgerald to the tune of 224 billion dollars on 9-12-91.
The interest on that loan had it into the trillions when it would have come due the next day.'

can u elaborate on this, provide specifics


thnks in advance

hahahahaha.....Drunkee already told us that "the records of this loan were destroyed on 9/11"......but of course he has microfiche copies at home from which to make #114 of his 200+ straw man claims for the event in question

 

[superbeets]

New U.S. Open tennis champion Novak Djokvic has dedicated his win to the victims of 9/11.

before collecting his trophy, Djokovic took a moment to reflect on the 10th anniversary of the terrorist attacks.

"I want to give my compassion to the people of 9/11," the word number one told the sell-out crowd.


"This is more important than a sport. We're playing sport, it's great, we're enjoying it. But we don't realise how lucky we are to live and play a sport we love."


Djokovic received his title wearing a New York Fire Department cap as a mark of respect to the emergency crews who gave their lives during the rescue efforts.


The men's final was scheduled to take place on Sunday but was delayed after heavy rain on the U.S. east coast.


The date "9/11/01" was still stencilled in white on the side of the Arthur Ashe Court.


Runner-up Nadal, who has a close affinity with New York after winning the U.S. Open last year, admitted to being moved by Sunday's 10th anniversary ceremonies around the city.


"I don't ever want to forget 9/11. Yesterday was a hard day for everybody but keep going and all the best to the victims and the families."

 

[rolltide]

Fair enough Rolltide. If we admit it's a dialectical argument for us as well, it's precisely that we can with full assurance tell you we don't know where the missle parts went. Whether they were found or not. Whether a misille even hit the buildings. When they came down it was obvious there was enough explosives to have made the man in the street who corrected the reporter with "No, no plane, explosion!!!, a correct man. What made the hole? What made a 16ft round hole in the Pentagon, but a roadrunner wide hole in the WTC, ostensibly by the same objects, streakling passenger jets?

It's not cheating to say we don't have to posit any activity or action that occurred that day. We are the defense. We are not the prosecution. We are not the Warren Commision. We are not the 9/11 Commision.

We are defending as if the planes are under indictment. We are showing the jury that you have no case against these planes. They were not there that day. They have alibis. You cannot definitively place our client the plane in the vicinity of Wall Street on that day.

i'll buy this but then the theorists should really stop posting "missiles with holograms of plane wings hit the building" if you don't have proof. Simple as that. Does a lot of what we've been told not quite add up? yeah, absolutely but then you should all do yourselves a favor and keep pushing back on the evidence available versus concocting stories of missiles, holograms, and 10k+ actors.

You're not reaching people by creating an unbelievable fairy tale. You WILL reach people by disputing evidence...people don't believe the Warren Commission because they disputed the evidence the public was fed not because they were told holograms of Martians were involved.

my $.02

 

[Ricboff]

hahahahaha.....Drunkee already told us that "the records of this loan were destroyed on 9/11"......but of course he has microfiche copies at home from which to make #114 of his 200+ straw man claims for the event in question

Give him a chance

I'm missing something ?

 

[hehateme82]

Give him a chance

I'm missing something ?

no you are not. trillions in interest?? all records destroyed? come on now, it is common sense.

 

[Ricboff]

Yes I am

He's made the claim . I want to see his proof.

 

[hehateme82]

Yes I am

He's made the claim . I want to see his proof.

there is no proof. it is a huge stretch to make whatever connection he is trying to make.

 

[Ricboff]

Fair enough.

Again, HE is the one making the claim. I'm asking for specifics, proof. If he says the 'proof was in building 7 and they blew it up'

Needless to say, his statement has no foundation

The onus is on him to provide evidence

 

[barman]

Give him a chance

I'm missing something ?

Well yeah...You're fortunate to perhaps be a less frequent visitor here and have perhaps not seen the posting style which earns the derisive "kook" smak

1) Submit a rather extreme (or even outlandish) thesis claim

2) Challenge critics to "prove" a semi-related and unprovable straw man. If they fail to deliver, then you cite that lack of "proof" as 100% evidence #1 above is irrefutable.

2a) If the critic is foolish enough to waste time attempting to debunk the first straw man, then a second and third straw man "proof" is demanded.

The Kook will continue playing as long as critics scoff at the #1 claim....and suddenly the initial perhaps interesting topic theme has morphed into 10 pages of pure balderdash

===
example

"Hologram images of planes are what collided with the WTC Towers"

critic - "That is preposterous"

"Prove to me that there have not been dozens of supposed airline passenger victims found alive and well in Europe!"

critic - "I can't prove that"

"Right. So therefore we know for sure hologram images are what collided with the WTC Towers"

 

[barman]

Blush.....

HUSKYFAN...Looks like I'm going to need my own new white chip to start over on Day 1 of my Clean Time

 

[superbeets]

Can you give an estimate as to how many people would have been involved in the conspiracy/hoax that you assume, and how many people would need therefore ,had to keep this secret from the public.

it is not possible to keep secrets

In his book, Loving God, former presidential assistant Charles Colson, in writing about Watergate, said, "With the most powerful office in the world at stake, a small band of hand-picked loyalists [of President Richard Nixon] ... could not hold a conspiracy together for more than two weeks.”

 

[superbeets]

Can you give an estimate as to how many people would have been involved in the conspiracy/hoax that you assume, and how many people would need therefore ,had to keep this secret from the public.

another reason there can be no conspiracy


Note that peripheral figures in any conspiracy would be more likely to come forward because their limited role would not result in serious punishment-in fact, most likely no punishment at all because of a plea bargain in which they'd have to name higher-ups. And their inducement would be considerable financial rewards (books, TV movies based on their disclosures, etc.). And mere informants, who wouldn't be exposed to any legally adverse consequences, would only have financial rewards for coming forward.

 

[superbeets]

The NIST report took 10,000 pages to consider in VERY FINE DETAIL, just how and why the buildings collapsed.
World Trade Center Disaster Study
On August 21, 2002, with funding from the U.S. Congress through FEMA, the National Institute of Standards and Technology (NIST) announced its building and fire safety investigation of the World Trade Center (WTC) disaster that occured on September 11, 2001. The NIST WTC Investigation was conducted under the authority of the National Construction Safety Team Act.








SUMMARY OF FINDINGS
Objective 1: Determine why and how WTC 1 and WTC 2 collapsed following the initial impacts of the aircraft.

• The two aircraft hit the towers at high speed and did considerable damage to principal structural components (core columns, floors, and perimeter columns) that were directly impacted by the aircraft or associated debris. However, the towers withstood the impacts and would have remained standing were it not for the dislodged insulation (fireproofing) and the subsequent multi-floor fires. The robustness of the perimeter frame-tube system and the large size of the buildings helped the towers withstand the impact. The structural system redistributed loads from places of aircraft impact, avoiding larger scale damage upon impact. The hat truss, a feature atop each tower which was intended to support a television antenna, prevented earlier collapse of the building core. In each tower, a different combination of impact damage and heat-weakened structural components contributed to the abrupt structural collapse.

• In WTC 1, the fires weakened the core columns and caused the floors on the south side of the building to sag. The floors pulled the heated south perimeter columns inward, reducing their capacity to support the building above. Their neighboring columns quickly became overloaded as columns on the south wall buckled. The top section of the building tilted to the south and began its descent. The time from aircraft impact to collapse initiation was largely determined by how long it took for the fires to weaken the building core and to reach the south side of the building and weaken the perimeter columns and floors.

• In WTC 2, the core was damaged severely at the southeast corner and was restrained by the east and south walls via the hat truss and the floors. The steady burning fires on the east side of the building caused the floors there to sag. The floors pulled the heated east perimeter columns inward, reducing their capacity to support the building above. Their neighboring columns quickly became overloaded as columns on the east wall buckled. The top section of the building tilted to the east and to the south and began its descent. The time from aircraft impact to collapse initiation was largely determined by the time for the fires to weaken the perimeter columns and floor assemblies on the east and the south sides of the building. WTC2 collapsed more quickly than WTC 1 because there was more aircraft damage to the building core, including one of the heavily loaded corner columns, and there were early and persistent fires on the east side of the building, where the aircraft had extensively dislodged insulation from the structural steel.

• The WTC towers likely would not have collapsed under the combined effects of aircraft impact damage and the extensive, multi-floor fires that were encountered on September11, 2001, if the thermal insulation had not been widely dislodged or had been only minimally dislodged by aircraft impact.

• In the absence of structural and insulation damage, a conventional fire substantially similar to or less intense than the fires encountered on September 11, 2001, likely would not have led to the collapse of a WTC tower.

• NIST found no corroborating evidence for alternative hypotheses suggesting that the WTC towers were brought down by controlled demolition using explosives planted prior to September 11, 2001. NIST also did not find any evidence that missiles were fired at or hit the towers. Instead, photographs and videos from several angles clearly showed that the collapse initiated at the fire and impact floors and that the collapse progressed from the initiating floors downward, until the dust clouds obscured the view.

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