Noreaga, obviously the price that card went for has something to do with his play. Im sure some fan in Pittsburgh area dished out that much for it. However, it has nothing to do with my opinion. It's very clear by what Ben did at Miami, Ohio and what he's done already in NFL that he's special, certainly not coincidence. As with Eli Manning, I think Peyton is one of a kind, and his little brother will never live up to the expectations........
Being Peyton's brother sets the bar pretty high for Eli. Take Rivers for example, he doesn't have to be as good as Peyton to be considered a decent NFL QB only becasue he is not related to any of the Mannings.. There is no way Eli can look at good as his brother the way the Giants team shapes up right now. All he can do is play within the system his coach puts hin into. The Giants don't play high octane offense indoors on a rug, they play in the NFC East where 24 points wins most games and late season home games are played in brutal weather. The comaprision to Ben is another matter, right now there looks to be no comaprision but no one really knows where the two will stand as NFL players 5 years from now. I say let Eli at least get a season under his belt before you call him the next Ryan Leaf.
wil.
wil.
Wil:
Why wait 5 years. Last April when the draft took place, I rated Big Ben ahead of Manning. Eli is talented but his ascending to the top pick had a great deal to do with his family name and corresponding success of father Archie and brother Peyton. Eli will not develop as long as Coughlin continues to be stubborn and start Kurt Warner. Big Ben, provided he suffers no injuries, is surrounded with a talented group of receivers, decent running game and traditionally a good offensive line plus a coach intensely determined yet supportive of his players. Not the case in New York. Receivers are average, running game mediocre, line fair and head coach who alienates himself from his players by virtue of his "rules". That's the way I see it.
Why wait 5 years. Last April when the draft took place, I rated Big Ben ahead of Manning. Eli is talented but his ascending to the top pick had a great deal to do with his family name and corresponding success of father Archie and brother Peyton. Eli will not develop as long as Coughlin continues to be stubborn and start Kurt Warner. Big Ben, provided he suffers no injuries, is surrounded with a talented group of receivers, decent running game and traditionally a good offensive line plus a coach intensely determined yet supportive of his players. Not the case in New York. Receivers are average, running game mediocre, line fair and head coach who alienates himself from his players by virtue of his "rules". That's the way I see it.
Ted I was responding to the thread title:
wil.
Like I said Eli will be very hard pressed to look like Peyton in the Giants scheme. As far as the merits (pre-draft) of Ben and Eli go - I agree Rot might have been a better pick at the #1 spot on a pure talent basis. Unfortunately a lot of hype goes along with that pick, and being a Manning certainly did not hurt Eli get picked before Ben. Lets not put Rot. in the hall of fame just yet though. I like his chances of being a very good NFL QB but want to see him on the road again. I recall a kind of deer in the headlights look he had in Dallas a month ago. Lets see if it is gone or still there when he gets some heat in the Dog Pound this Sunday.
wil.
Wil:
I understood. My point was that Ben was a better draft pick on the day of the draft. Manning benefitted from the family name. Plus, Ben is surrounded with much better talent and coaching then Eli. Thus, now and/or 5 years from now Ben will be far ahead of Eli.
As for this Sunday, agree having watched Cleveland play last week, their defense can be a stern test at times and the environment will definitely be hostile.
I understood. My point was that Ben was a better draft pick on the day of the draft. Manning benefitted from the family name. Plus, Ben is surrounded with much better talent and coaching then Eli. Thus, now and/or 5 years from now Ben will be far ahead of Eli.
As for this Sunday, agree having watched Cleveland play last week, their defense can be a stern test at times and the environment will definitely be hostile.
I told you this guy was the real deal ........even after IOWA kicked his ass last year and held his team to 3 points...........intercepting BIG BEN three times I believe.Dante said:
PS- This was BENS last loss as a starting QB,,,,,,,,,,,,opening day at IOWA last year.
Kinnick Stadium may be the toughest place to play in college football these days for a visiting team.
My dad used to have season tickets to the Dolphins in the 80's and take me to the games.
So I can tell you guys two things
1) Rothlesburger is one hell of a QB. Doesnt really look like Marino out there like some compare him too but he is as effective as Marino as a young QB. The Steelers are set-up at QB for the next 10+ years.
2) the colts are going no-where. I saw the Dolphin defense in the 80's spoil Marino's great games. You can't win superbowls with an awful defense.
I am so happy they finally canned dorko wannstedt. that guy has been driving my dolphins into the ground for 5 years. I have been waiting for them to can that jackass for 2.5 years. unfortunately Miami is so bad at this point their cupboard is completely bare. the defense is old and decaying the offense non-existant. It will be a long time before they turn this around
So I can tell you guys two things
1) Rothlesburger is one hell of a QB. Doesnt really look like Marino out there like some compare him too but he is as effective as Marino as a young QB. The Steelers are set-up at QB for the next 10+ years.
2) the colts are going no-where. I saw the Dolphin defense in the 80's spoil Marino's great games. You can't win superbowls with an awful defense.
I am so happy they finally canned dorko wannstedt. that guy has been driving my dolphins into the ground for 5 years. I have been waiting for them to can that jackass for 2.5 years. unfortunately Miami is so bad at this point their cupboard is completely bare. the defense is old and decaying the offense non-existant. It will be a long time before they turn this around
Big Ben was my number one QB in the draft. Ahead of Rivers and Eli. He may have fell into the right spot, at the right time, but he is also making all the right plays. As far as the Dallas game, the scared one led them on a sweet game winning drive. In Dallas. Would rather have him then Garcia. But, better take a long look at the O-line. It is playing close to flawless. You put Ben behind the Giants line and he is probably knocked out. It is not fair to just take the QB out and measure him. Without an O-line, the best QB ever will just get trashed. Everyone knows I am not a Tough Tom fan. Eli should be in there now. Warner is toast. Ben and Eli both scramble and throw on the run, a requirement behind a shaky line. Kurt just sits in there, praising the lord. 5 years from now, is a tough call. However, big Ben has a huge head start. And a team he can succeed with. Eli does not. I see very few flaws in big Ben's game, but they do exist. And he is no Marino. But he is a rookie, and one of the best I have seen since Marino. Answer, Big Ben will remain ahead of Eli for years, if not forever. Just the way it unfolded. Damn guy fell into Steelers lap. How many teams passed him up? Is Rivers going to leap frog Brees? Nope. Eli could be just like Dad, the lovable loser on the garbage Saints. The Giants are falling fast, and it is probably better for him to be on the sidelines, watching Kurt take the beatings. 15 sacks and 8 fumbles, last 3 weeks!!! It is a team sport. Go Steeelers...
Best Wishes...OF:howdy:
Deer in the headlights...Roethlisberger completed 21 of 25 passes and two touchdowns, completing nine straight throws on the Steelers' last two scoring drives Sunday and 11 in one stretch, leading Pittsburgh to a 24-20 comeback win over the Cowboys. Whatever you say Wil...:kicking:
Best Wishes...OF:howdy:
Deer in the headlights...Roethlisberger completed 21 of 25 passes and two touchdowns, completing nine straight throws on the Steelers' last two scoring drives Sunday and 11 in one stretch, leading Pittsburgh to a 24-20 comeback win over the Cowboys. Whatever you say Wil...:kicking:
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Froggy still make this offer?
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<HR style="COLOR: #fdde82" SIZE=1><!-- / icon and title --><!-- message -->Wil, the Giants I saw playing out the string last season could not beat the Lions at home. And it is hard to cap a schd, a season in advance, as who is this years Carolina. And who wanted the Super Bowl teams on their schd, Raiders and Bucs. I like Detroit, Zona at home, Atlanta with Vick. It is too early to see how far the cuts go, but if they go for a quickie rebuild, 3 to 4 wins is in the cards. Other teams around them are getting better now. Not building for the future. I will move my line up to 6 un-60 for you Wil. Or would you rather have the 5 1/2? Good thread...OF
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just curious.
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<HR style="COLOR: #fdde82" SIZE=1><!-- / icon and title --><!-- message -->Wil, the Giants I saw playing out the string last season could not beat the Lions at home. And it is hard to cap a schd, a season in advance, as who is this years Carolina. And who wanted the Super Bowl teams on their schd, Raiders and Bucs. I like Detroit, Zona at home, Atlanta with Vick. It is too early to see how far the cuts go, but if they go for a quickie rebuild, 3 to 4 wins is in the cards. Other teams around them are getting better now. Not building for the future. I will move my line up to 6 un-60 for you Wil. Or would you rather have the 5 1/2? Good thread...OF
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just curious.
Looks like Froggy might be wrong with this one
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<HR style="COLOR: #fdde82" SIZE=1><!-- / icon and title --><!-- message -->The guy acts like he is reading scriptures with the pass rush bearing down on him. Zero pocket awareness. Some balls thrown well, others where the hell? Two fumbling rb's, neither short yardage. No repesct for running game, or defense in progress gets shreded, and Kurt passes every down. I would love to see his weak grip in the cold weather but he should be hurt and done before then. I bet he is done half way through season. Eli has a lot of growing pains, only rook to make a real impact I ever remember is Dan Marino. Been a lot of rooks thrown in since then. Northcoast projects 3 wins for Giants. I was thinking 5. Hard to say as Giants pretty much in total overhaul mode. Normally a two to three year plan. They will be a big dog in many games. I hope they cover, but I am cynical. Best Wishes...OF
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:finger:
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<HR style="COLOR: #fdde82" SIZE=1><!-- / icon and title --><!-- message -->The guy acts like he is reading scriptures with the pass rush bearing down on him. Zero pocket awareness. Some balls thrown well, others where the hell? Two fumbling rb's, neither short yardage. No repesct for running game, or defense in progress gets shreded, and Kurt passes every down. I would love to see his weak grip in the cold weather but he should be hurt and done before then. I bet he is done half way through season. Eli has a lot of growing pains, only rook to make a real impact I ever remember is Dan Marino. Been a lot of rooks thrown in since then. Northcoast projects 3 wins for Giants. I was thinking 5. Hard to say as Giants pretty much in total overhaul mode. Normally a two to three year plan. They will be a big dog in many games. I hope they cover, but I am cynical. Best Wishes...OF
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:finger:
