3-4 vs. 4-3 defense - personnel?

rivercitybirdie · Jul 15, 2015

hey, hoping people can help....

i see alot of vague talk about 3-4 vs. 4-3 defenses and personnel.... i know what 4-3 and 3-4 mean....

but what are the differences vis-a-vis personnel?

is it that in the 3-4 DL players are bigger and LB can be smaller and quicker. i was specifically thinking NT for much bigger in 3-4 but probably DE as well.

any other obvious differences? is it that big a deal to change from one to the other as the basic alignment of your defense? .

thx in advance!

jgm4661 · Jul 15, 2015

River,

I follow SD who switched back in 2001 to a 3-4. Here is what I have heard following them and from other media sources.

3-4

DT ( called a NT) or nose tackle. Plays over OC Has to have size and strength usually + 300 lbs Ngata is 350. Role is to occupy 2 blockers and clog the middle

DE. Their role is also primarily to occupy 2 blockers and clog running lanes too w limited pass rush ability typically 300 + pounds

OLB Typically bigger than 4-3 OLB as are the main pass rushers and have to have ability in that area eg Terrel Suggs Idea is to have the DL occupy blockers so the OLB are 1:1 and can make plays

4-3

DT. Smaller than 3-4 NT~ 300lbs and have to be both pass rushers and run stoppers

DE Smaller than 3-4 DEs usually 270 -300 lbs & are main pass rushers. Also have to stop the run eg Charles Johnson

OLB smaller than in 3-4 ~ 250 lbs role is mainly run support and covering TEs and RBs out of the backfield

That is general but should give you a good overview. Teams go w the 3-4 because it is hard to find good 4-3 DEs to rush the passer. There are more slightly larger OLBs w those skills.

rivercitybirdie · Jul 16, 2015

Jgm, thx. Makes sense....

Wouldn't 1 or 2 of the 3-4 linebackers be smaller than 4-3 LBs?

it makes sense that teams can't find enough good personnel for 3-4 D-Line as I've read a few experts say SEC's big advantage in NCAAF in access to huge atheletic DL talent..... Athletic 300 lb is rare. Athletic bulked up to 230 lbs not rare at all

is Miami with suh and wake 4-3? I think so. Wake was considered too small 1st time around in nfl. I have no idea if he plays old or de? I've seen both listed

rivercitybirdie · Jul 16, 2015

F auto-correct... was wondering whether wake is OLB or DE? Not whether he's "old"

jgm4661 · Jul 17, 2015

rivercitybirdie said:
Jgm, thx. Makes sense....

Wouldn't 1 or 2 of the 3-4 linebackers be smaller than 4-3 LBs?

it makes sense that teams can't find enough good personnel for 3-4 D-Line as I've read a few experts say SEC's big advantage in NCAAF in access to huge atheletic DL talent..... Athletic 300 lb is rare. Athletic bulked up to 230 lbs not rare at all

is Miami with suh and wake 4-3? I think so. Wake was considered too small 1st time around in nfl. I have no idea if he plays old or de? I've seen both listed

All I know is the 3-4 OLB are larger than the 4-3 OLB as they are the pass rushers.

Teams have a hard time finding 4-3 DEs ie 280-300 lb players who have speed to rush the passer. It is easier to find a 260-280 lb OLB to rush the passer, so that is why teams like the 3-4. Easier to get the personnel.

Miami are running the 4-3 and Wake is a DE at 270.

PatsFan1283 · Jul 17, 2015

Another thing is how fast you are bringing guys in and out these days, most teams run a combination of both formats rather than just strictly 4-3 or 3-4, since strategy and your opponent strength can change so much week to week.

For awhile, only the teams with the perfect personnel to play 3-4 really did so. The Steelers, Pats and Ravens circa like 10 years ago. You needed the space eating DT inside and the hybrid OLBs to make it work. Not to mention if your defensive line of 3 guys can eat up space, it allows your playmaking safety playing towards the line to roam free to make plays even more when he comes in for support. Basically functioning as a 5th LB.

More teams are going 3-4 right now than in a long time (got popular after Taylor/Parcells run with the Giants), even if some don't have the run stopping guys upfront to do so. I think a lot of this is because it has become so much better of an option to pass than run that teams just want to flood the field with more big, fast bodies. If you can run a little more effective on them, they'll live with it.

rivercitybirdie · Jul 19, 2015

PatsFan, thanks..... that also makes sense.... i do think teams are getting away from emphasizing strong run D as a priority and just monitoring the situation to make sure they don't get burned.

i wonder if some sad-sack team should emphasize the run on offense. sort of moneyball. although some would argue moneyball isn't necessary in a salary-capped league.

Vlad the Impaler · Jul 19, 2015

I always preferred the 3-4 because you give more looks with it. Not to mention, the teams the Colts often lost too would play the 3-4 and Manning would never admit it, but sometimes he would be confused out there. Stuggled against teams like Chargers, Steelers, Pats Sometimes the Patriots would rush 2 and drop 9.but then put up 45 on a team that would basically rush 4 every down.

That is one reason I hate Tony Dungy. He is supposed to be this defensive genius but every single down the Colts would give the same look. Freeney and Mathis rush up the field creating these huge running lanes. Linebackers were so small they would get blown up at the point of attack. Corners always rolled up while safeties split the field and the middle backer would run straight back 20 yards. Always had the worst run defense in the league. Absolutely never blitzed. i am thinking if I can see this, I can only imagine what an NFL coach can see. I think one game, the Jags rushed for 300 yards which is unheard of in the NFL.

I thinjk 3-4 personal is harder to get/ draft though because you know the outside rushers are top 5 picks every year, harder to find the big fatass like a Vince Wilfork, Ngata, have to at least have 1 good cover corner, and 5 technique defensive tackles arent available every year.