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From Michael Moore
68 dead by firearms in Britain-over 11000 in the US.That´s almost 4 WTC tragedies per year.

There must be something wrong with the US guns laws.

The fewer the guns in a society-the fewer is gonna get killed by them.Doesn´t that sound logical to americans?

Don't you think the U.S. should invade and wipe out the NRA Starting with Chuck just like they did in Panama, Nam, Afghanastan, kosovo, Iraq etc. etc.
This is the biggest threat to the saftey of Americans by far yet it is ignored.

This is why the rest of the world thinks your a bunch of morons. Which your government is of course.

jazz, Patriot, fat do you care to respond.
 

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I despise guns and I think they should be totally banned in the US. US gun laws are crazy. Because its always been that way.... is no reason to continue the madness.

Grannt is wrong about them being the greatest threat to Americans. 42,000 died last year in traffic accidents. For all the publicity the occasional airline disaster gets, no one pays attention to the very common auto fatalities. In 2000, there were ZERO airline fatalities. In 2001 there was one crash not based on terrorism. So 200 or so died in airline accidents in two years while 80,000 died in auto accidents and people are afraid of flying? not me, Im afraid of driving to and from work each day...deadly,I've seen it. be careful driving...

The current US government are genious. The world owes them a debt of gratitude for their brave leadership while so many wanted to cower in the face of a weak old mass murderer!!!!!

I never hear the anti-US nutballs talk about the great victory for freedom George Bush has orchestrated in the middle east, which may lead to sweeping changes and real peace in the region.

All while the nutball liberals wanted to pout and moan to the criminal regimes in the mid-east- " please don't hurt us again!!!! were so sorry you don't like us!!! we'll be nicer!!! even though we have done nothing but give you aid, were sorry!!! please don't hurt us, you tryanical mass murdering fascist regimes!!

And their are people actually dumb enough to be anti_George Bush. It would be amazing, yet at this point it simply shows a lack of being able to admit when one is wrong. Choke on this liberal nutballs- history will show George W Bush to be one of the greatest US presidents. He is bringing 1/4 of the world 1000 years forward and saving the lives of millions. nothing can stop that from being so.....
 

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One idiot killed a bunch of kids where I come from.
Guns, especially handguns, were totally banned shortly thereafter.
No-one here misses guns, except the idiots.

If you take this freedom to defend crap to its extreme I could start a gun club for enthusiasts.

But I would really like to open up a hand grenade club, where we could 'practice our skills' on a weekly basis.

RPG's, now they're cool! What about a rocket propelled grenade club!

RPG's dont kill people, people do....
icon_rolleyes.gif
 

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KMAN, Gargoyle, do you seriously believe that this anti-gun twat and I are the same person?

Guns outlawed means only criminals have them. Why is this so hard for anti-gun activists to understand? Switzerland has the highest per capita firearm possession rate in the world due to the nature of their military (all reserve, arms kept in the home) and one of the lowest per capita accident rates due to sensible laws regarding responsibility.

Why is anyone who supports the Second Amendment a person looking to blow stuff up and shoot people? The founders of our country believed that a standing military was a threat to liberty (and lo, check it out, they were right.) Criminals have less incentive to commit crimes against individuals whom they believe might be armed. So do tyrants.

I own a few guns; I take care of them and keep myself in practice periodically. Should the occasion ever arise, I feel fairly confident that the weapon that I keep in my home and the one that I keep in my car would be a very handy deterrent -- and if it isn't, there's always the trigger, which will solve the dispute in an altogether more rapid and decisive manner.

Do I sit around talking to my gun while I oil it and go through practice drills for killing Commies? No; I'm reasonably sane. In fact I'm fairly sure that the next thing I would do after blowing a hole in someone's chest with my shotgun would be to vomit, possibly a couple of times. But this is the most effective way for me to convey the idea to a person whom I find rummaging around in my home in the middle of the night, "you're in my home and a potential threat to my family; option A is you run like hell, option B is I kill you where you stand."

Mr. Smith, US gun laws have not "always been this way." They used to be sensible, as did US persons. How do you praise military might in one breath and condemn guns as despicable in another? Do you truly believe that the solution to gun violence is to limit gun ownership to a) law enforcement and b) violent criminals who are going to carry guns regardless of the legality of the matter? You have a lot more faith in the gendarme than you probably should.


Phaedrus
 
Even though it would be nice to ban gun laws, that would involve ****ing with one of the basic constitutional rights we were given all those years ago. Plus, as Phaedrus says, you know there would still be guns out there.
 
Michael Moore is a foolish asshole that has used the FEAR of guns to promote his career. His latest should be retitled to "Bowling for DOLLARS"

Grantt you foolish boy why don't you ask little Micheal WHY his body guard carries a GUN and WHY when he filmed this and other Docu/movies his security people carried GUNS. Hmmmmm......

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR> 68 dead by firearms in Britain-over 11000 in the US.That´s almost 4 WTC tragedies per year. <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>
Did little Michael happen to mention that the majority of the murders and murdered are mostly ONE RACE? Of course NOT!
I won't either because I don't want Boneheads to try to label me as a racist which I'm not.
But the fact is the majority comes from very POOR sections of the city. And because of Bigots/Rasism they can't get jobs, and their community is plagued by DRUGS and gangs.
Micheal is a bit of a BIGOT himself so that's probably one reason WHY he didn't want to point this out, as he didn't want to reveal himself.
In short POOR people that are plagued with RACISM and DRUGS and no JOB opportunity are killing each other. FACT.
Hey where's Micheal when it comes to FACTS?
 

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So we agree Intuition Bet that the U.S. is a sespool of drugs, crime , hatred, racism and murder.
 
Sounds like you're a BIGOT Grantt?


The USA is a melting pot and only a very small percentage of the population falls into your description.

I like the way you IGNORE the FACT about Micheal Morre and just zero in on NEGATIVE crap as usual.
 

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Mike Moore and you both have very little credibility...one lies and the other one swears to it.
These numbers have been refuted by a number of people.
90% of deaths from handguns come from inner city where the bastard factorys and democrat and liberal plantations are.
I live in a rural area where everyone owns a gun of some sort I can't think of one death from a gun in 40 years and we also have a low crime rate...go figure.
Guns don't kill people,people kill people.
 

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Phaedrus.
Society in Switzerland is amongst the hightest earning per capita in the world.
Its piss ant in size, even HITLER didnt invade the Swiss! and they lived next door to his empire for 15 years.
Switzerland is europes safety deposit box, if not the worlds, and can be compared to nowhere.

Can you tell us who is going to invade the USA, now or in the next 30 years??
The Pacific one side, The Atlantic on the other....
Are the mexicans and Canadians scaring you?

I live in an area with no guns.
No one has been murdered here for years.
In the poorer areas they still beat each other to death with knives etc, but its a lot less casualties than a gun toting poor area in the US or elsewhere.
Guns help idiots to kill more people, its what they are made for, its what they do best.


What about NY, dont they have really strict laws? how does that place compare on handgun problems?
 
eek and others.

Switzerland is a great example where gun ownership keeps crime down etc.

But let's talk about Australia where they outlawed gun ownership a few years back.
And guess what happened?

Robbery and Murder BY GUNS skyrocketed.FACT

Only the criminals had guns.

The PROOF is in the pudding and the pudding is Australia.

Take away guns and you had better take away ALL machine shops etc because the criminals will make their own guns if they can't buy them on the black market.
 

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Australia's Gun Law Victory

Between July 1996 and August 1998 Australian State and Federal governments have been implementing wide-ranging new gun control laws to curb gun-related death and injury. This move closely followed the Tasmanian massacre of 1996, in which a lone gunman shot dead 35 people.

According to the Australian Institute of Criminology, in its report, Australian Crime - Facts and Figures, released in October 1999, these laws have significantly affected Australia's crime and injury rates.

All gun deaths, be they homicides, suicides or unintentional shootings, have decreased from a total of 521 in 1996 to 437 in 1997. This figure of 437 gun deaths is the lowest number in 18 years (1).

Only one out of every five armed robbery in Australia involves a gun, and the "number of armed robberies involving a firearm (have) decreased to a six-year low"(2). In contrast, robberies involving weapons such as a knife or stick have increased by nearly 20%, which indicates that other weapons are replacing firearms. That such substitution is being accompanied by a decline in gun deaths reveals the lethality of firearms - when they are not used, fewer people are killed.

Tasmania provides an interesting case study allowing for an assessment of how gun legislation affects crime rates. This is because Tasmania had few significant gun laws prior to 1991, when it introduced gun controls for rifles and shotguns. These controls were limited, basically introducing a system of lifetime licensing of gun owners. More significant regulations were introduced to Tasmania and the rest of Australia with the Firearms Act of 1996.

Research undertaken by Kate Warner, a professor at the University of Tasmania, shows that the Firearms Act has significantly reduced gun crime(3). As she points out, "A declining firearm suicide rate, a declining firearm assault rate, a stable firearm robbery rate with a declining proportion of robberies committed with a firearm and a declining proportion of damage to property offences committed with a firearm suggest that firearm regulation has been successful in Tasmania"
1. Alpers, P. (2000) Sharp Drop in Gun Crime Follows Tough Australian Firearm Laws. Auckland, New Zealand.
2. Recorded Crime, Australia, 1998. Australian Bureau of Statistics, June 1999.
3. Warner, Professor K. Firearm Deaths and Firearm Crime After Gun Licensing in Tasmania. Paper for the 3rd National Outlook Symposium on Crime in Australia. Australian Institute of Criminology, 22-23 March 1999, Canberra.
 

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A Beginners Guide to Australian Gun Laws 15/04/2000




1. The matter of gun laws was not included in the Australian Constitution when it became operative at the start of the 20th Century, hence gun laws remain within the jurisdiction of the six states (New South Wales, Victoria, Queensland, Western Australia, South Australia and Tasmania) and the two territories (Northern Territory and Australian Capital Territory). The Commonwealth (Australian) government does not have the power to make gun laws but it can control imports. Since 1991 ex-military rifles such as Kalashnikov types, and military style lookalikes such as the Ruger Mini 14 cannot be imported.

2. Major gun massacres occurred in Victoria and NSW in 1987, in NSW 1991 and in Tasmania in 1996. 150 people died in multiple death shootings alone in the decade starting January 1987. Stricter gun laws have only been made in Australia after a major gun massacre. Some states did improve their gun laws in the late 1980's up to the mid-1990's, and to a degree such improvements filtered slowly to all jurisdictions. The gun death rate was noticeably reduced by 1995.

3. The death of 35 people and serious injuries to almost 20 others at Port Arthur on 28 April 1996 prompted the Australian government to urge a meeting of the eight state and territory police ministers to introduce a new and stricter range of gun controls. Three major changes were introduced.

(a) Gun registration was introduced to all eight jurisdictions
(b) Attempts were made to have uniform gun laws throughout Australia
(c) A new standardised gun licensing scheme was put into practice.


This new scheme allowed non-self-loading guns to be readily available but placed restrictions on high capacity self-loading rimfire rifles, self-loading centrefire rifles and shotguns and pump-action shotguns. These were the types of guns mainly used in Australian gun massacres. The basis for these changes had been laid in 1990 when the National Committee on Violence (NCV) made about 20 recommendations for improved gun controls. The NCV itself was formed as a result of the six gun massacres in 1987.

There were about four million guns in Australia. One million were no longer in the legal category so a gun buy-back scheme was introduced to purchase these. The estimated average price was $500 per gun. Hence 500 million dollars was set aside. Only 640,000 guns were offered for purchase, hence $320 million was used for this purpose. About another 40 million dollars was used for administration and assistance to gun traders. Since the 500 million dollars had come from a medical levy the balance was distributed to medical research and welfare. It should be noted that the total amount spent on purchasing guns was only about 200 million dollars US. It should also be noted that up to 40% of Australian gun owners did not obey the law, making the term 'law abiding shooters' look somewhat ridiculous.

4. Several exemptions to the gun licensing schedule were made by most jurisdictions. Members of certain shotgun target shooting clubs were permitted to use self-loading shotguns and many rural property owners and professional shooters were permitted to use self-loading rifles and shotguns.

5. In Australia, handguns have only been available to bona-fide members of approved pistol clubs and to gun collectors. None of the changes to gun laws made in recent decades have affected the availability of handguns. Non-self-loading long-guns are readily available to Australians who are at least 18 years of age, have no police record and who pass a simple shooters licence test. As Australian gun laws have become stricter in the 1990's gun deaths have lowered; never-the-less, several serious weaknesses remain within the Australian gun law system. Too many Australians still die from gun wounds.

Interested readers could purchase our books on Australian gun laws: 'Under the Gun' ($18 A) or 'The ABC of Gun Control' ($24 A). These prices include postage. Please send bank cheque made to Gun Control Australia Inc. Post to GCA, GPO Box 4075MM Melbourne 3001 Australia.
http://www.guncontrol.org.au/top5.html
===============================================

So you can still own a gun in Australia!!!

We are talking TOTAL BAN here, not tinkering, so Australia doesnt count, whatever happens, good or bad.
 

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By Randy Stearns
ABCNEWS.com
Sept. 30 — In the biggest surrender of private property in Britain since the late Middle Ages, Britons today handed over thousands of handguns in the hours before a new firearms bill took effect at midnight.
Spurred by last year’s massacre of 16 schoolchildren in Dunblane, Scotland, the government has made possession of any handgun larger than a .22 caliber a crime punishable by 10 years in jail and fines of as much as $7,500.
Scotland Yard recently mailed more than 9,000 letters reminding London gun owners and dealers of the impending deadline. The Home Office warned those who hadn’t yet complied that they could miss out on compensation of more than $200 per gun.
Britain has always been a relatively gun-free society, and the new rules were intended to keep it that way. Government officials hailed what they describe as among the toughest firearms rules in the world.
Some politicians predict even tougher restrictions lie ahead.
“Parliament wanted an end to the importation of American handgun culture,” Conservative Minister David Mellor told ABCNEWS’ Nathan Thomas. “If a small number of people continue to flout the will of Parliament by moving off into other weapons, the Parliament will have to revisit the matter.”

A Legacy of Dunblane
The new ban was introduced on a wave of popular revulsion after Thomas Hamilton, a licensed gun owner, burst into the Dunblane Primary School in March 1996 brandishing four handguns. H e murdered 16 5- and 6-year-olds and their teacher, then killed himself.
Parents of the slain children became a powerful political force in the wake of that massacre when they pressed for a ban on handguns.
John Crozier, whose 5-year-old daughter Emma died in the massacre, said at the time: “My daughter’s right to live is more important than anybody’s right to shoot guns.”
Shooting clubs opposed the ban, saying they were being made scapegoats for the actions of one crazed loner. Some gun owners say they plan to use the compensation money to buy new, legal weapons like .22 caliber pistols.
Other sport shooters say they’ve shipped their handguns to foreign countries and plan to travel abroad just to practice.
“All of a sudden I’m looked on as a criminal, not allowed to do the sport I’ve become quite good at,” said Nigel Shemmings, a gun-club shooter.

Grudging Compliance
But though the surrender has been slow to date, most gun enthusiasts are expected to comply with the law, which covers an estimated 160,000 legally-held weapons.
“There is certainly no intention by the shooting community to make a protest by withholding them,” said Mike Yardley of the Sportsman’s Association.
Only a few days before the deadline, some experts estimated 40,000 guns were still being held by their owners.
Legislation to outlaw even smaller guns is being reviewed by Parliament, despite protests by gun enthusiasts.
“I understand that many law-abiding gun owners feel they have lost their sport, but I am glad to see so many of them have cooperated with the police and handed in their weapons,” said Alan Michaels, a junior Home Office official.

Loopholes and Criminals
Police, however, acknowledge the new law has a loophole: Registered gun owners may buy carbine rifles that fire the same bullets as handguns. In the wrong hands, such weapons could cause the same damage as the newly outlawed pistols.
The new anti-gun law is also expected to have little impact on another source of potential danger—the estimated four million guns owned illegally in Britain.

Reuters contributed to this report.

http://abcnews.go.com/sections/world/britguns930/index.html
 

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The gun lobby has been getting very excited about the UK’s recent crime statistics. It is being suggested that because violent crime is on the increase in this country the handgun ban introduced in 1997 isn’t working.



This is simply false.



The following facts may help to put the record straight.





The overall rise in crimes of violence is 16% and the rise in robbery
26% so it is true that we seem to be becoming a more violent society generally. This is a matter of great concern to us all. There is evidence that the biggest growth is in street muggings related to the theft of mobile phones.



Guns were used in only 4.7% of robberies in 1999 and 4.4% in 1998 so the
problem is to a very large extent one of non-firearms crime. Our tight gun laws are undoubtedly responsible for the relatively rare use of guns in crime.



Handgun homicide figures are very low and since 1980 have fluctuated
from a low of 7 in 1988, through to 35 in 1993 and a previous high of 39
in1997. So 42 gun murders in 1999 does not represent a statistically significant increase.



There is evidence of a growth in the use of imitation guns in crime but
no figures can be put on this. It is likely however that some of the rise in handgun crime is attributable to imitations.




Much recent research has highlighted the fact that the UK does not have a particularly low rate of violent crime but it does have a low rate of gun crime. This is because of our tight gun laws and because we do not have an armed police force. It is clear to the vast majority of British citizens that any relaxation of gun controls or the routine arming of the police would lead to an increase in the use of guns in crime. For these reasons such developments will be fiercely resisted.

==============================================

So it seems to be a cultural thing as well.

We dont have em, so we dont use em.
 

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<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR> So we agree that the U.S. is a sespool of drugs, crime , hatred, racism and murder. <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

This guy Grantt is a hypocritical joke. He implies that Americans (in general and as a whole) are full of hatred and racism. All I've seen from him is the definition of both.
 

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Grantt,

Your post/arguement, like the two "tt"s in your name are redundant.

Michael Moore should worry more about his diet, which if followed by all americans would die of heart disease, than gun deaths.
 

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eek, New York City has some of the strictest gun control in the US, and some of the highest per-capita gun violence (since only the violent criminals carry guns.)

Montana, Idaho and northwestern Arkansas have the most relaxed gun laws in the US, and the lowest per-capita gun violence. In a diner in Berryville, Arkansas I once saw four guys with pistols on their hips. Four on the hip; it's a safe bet at least tone or more others had a gun not so prominently displayed.

So, you go into a joint with a mind to rob it. You see four guys sitting around casually, armed. You do what? Pull out a .38 and say "Everybody freeze, especially if you're armed!" ???

"Liquor store? Fvck robbing a liquor store. Get your fvckin' head blown off you try to pull sommat like that."

Tim Roth as 'Pumkin' in Pulp Fiction

You also clearly know virtually nothing about Switzerland ... learn to at least use Google so you can possibly fake it and get by.

And no, I have absolutely zero fear of any other nation ivnading the US. The only nation on Earth capapble of seriously entertaining such a notion right now is China, and that would require a 6,500 mile oversea voyage (and a 6,500 mile overseavoyage for supplies) which would get cut off in the South China Sea when our outstanding Navy blew them to shit.

What I worry about, is tyranny from within. A populace with no right to arm itself (to be differentiated from an unarmed populace) is at the mercy of not only violent criminals, but the far-worse scoundrels on the Hill who do their dirty work by fiat.


Phaedrus
 

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