Yet, another question about online casinos....

[AdamSelene]

I personally don't think you will ever find a slot machine real or virtual, anywhere in the world with a 105% payback. Virtual slot paybacks I would guess to be in the 80's. Almost as bad an investment as Keno.

Vegas casinos put 105% nickel machines near the entrances, or at least used to.

All the online/kiosk slots we've developed haven been 97-99% payout.

A machine in the 80's% is ridiculous, esp. online. I've suspected some physical casinos carry such machines here in San Jose (CR), but they get traffic for reasons other than their games.

 

[monicus]

Unless it is posted "this machine or bank of machines is 105% payback" then how would you know? I would grauntee no machine anywhere in the world is 105%. The best you can do is 101% with a full pay deuces machine and a comp card.

 

[AC]

any online casino can vary their hold percentage in the software.

online blackjack is just like playing blackjack on a video poker machine. the game is designed to hold a certain percentage for the house...that is why rng's don't matter for online blackjack...it is not truly random.

AC

 

[AdamSelene]

any online casino can vary their hold percentage in the software.

No, they cannot.

They can vary the *expected* hold percentage by changing the payout tables (video poker, carribean stud/draw, 3card poker, let it ride), by changing the house commission (pai gow, baccarat), or by changing variable rules (blackjack). All these variable factors are viewable by the player.

Some software vendors may let them configure slot machines to one of several preset payout %. Those again are *expected* payout %, determined by the virtual reel stop configuration. But most software vendors do *not* allow the casino to configure this, as they wish a particular title perform the same at any casino.

The real hold percentage will approach the expected hold percentage only over time and volume, there can be large short-term variance. It *is* truly random.

Any software to the contrary is *fraudulant*. Any casino running software to the contrary can be prosecuted for fraud, and software vendor selling software to the contrary can be prosecuted for fraud. There are some, typically out of Russia or Israel, they are on the blacklist URLs I posted.

online blackjack is just like playing blackjack on a video poker machine. the game is designed to hold a certain percentage for the house...that is why rng's don't matter for online blackjack...it is not truly random.

Absolutely not. Online blackjack shuffles shoot (X decks) of cards (using one of a few very widely known and published shuffling algorithms; like a multi-pass Knuth algorithm, which assigns a random number to each card and sorts them by that number, and repeats x times). It then deals from that shoot. The expected results are near identical to what you would expect at a real Black Jack table.

 

[AC]

The expected results are near identical to what you would expect at a real Black Jack table.[/QUOTE]


if this is true, why are there so many anecdotes of people losing 10-15 hands in a row---the odds on that event are very steep and it seems to happen more often than in real life.

you are obviously a programmer. but you are not an online casino operator. the program might leave your office in good shape and offer a fair shake to the player but at the online casino I am sure there are operators who customize the software to benefit them.

and I'm not a sore loser on line BJ player. I have made a decent amount of coin this year playing at online bj...but the streaks i have personally seen in terms of winning or losing x amount of hands in a row happen far too often for the online game to to be compared to the real life game...maybe it is because in the real life shuffle, you get card clumping.

AC

 

[AdamSelene]

you are obviously a programmer. but you are not an online casino operator. the program might leave your office in good shape and offer a fair shake to the player but at the online casino I am sure there are operators who customize the software to benefit them.

We have audit and version controls to detect any unauthorized modifications to our software; as well as auditing the actual results are within expected variance.

Some sportsbooks run their own in-house software or software they've purchased source code (e.g. BoDog). Certainly the possibility exists in this case; however, there's very little reason to do so given all casino games are already in the house's favor, to risk such modifications.

but the streaks i have personally seen in terms of winning or losing x amount of hands in a row happen far too often for the online game to to be compared to the real life game...

Run some statistical variance tests and I think you'll be surprised.

You can always try another casino. I can't be a spokesperson for my employer nor any of our clients, but try CRIS, I am certain they are fair.

maybe it is because in the real life shuffle, you get card clumping.

That's the only reason I said nearly identical. Real life shuffling isn't truly random, and PRNG shuffling isn't truly random either (pseudo-random); both are made to achieve as close to random as possible and both have unique defects (e.g. card clumping).

 

[AC]

ok I will give cris a shot

however, if you contacted the majority of the sportsbooks/casinos regarding who does their auditing, they will almost all say the wizard of odds shackleford does it...the only problem is that shackleford can't audit them all and doesn't claim to...therefore I know something is fishy.

AC

 

[AdamSelene]

they will almost all say the wizard of odds shackleford does it...the only problem is that shackleford can't audit them all and doesn't claim to...therefore I know something is fishy.

CRIS probably would say that too.

Shackleford audits the games themselves -- I believe by automating the play of a large number of hands. He tests the PRNG and game algorithms to insure the game has variance and results one would expect.

Most casino software vendors have had him go through their games. We have.

He'll also audit a client installation, but most often the sportsbook is just passing on what their software vendor told them; so he audited the software vendor, and that software vendor has several dozens or several hundred clients.

He does not, as far as I know, audit the casino/sportsbook numbers.

 

[AdamSelene]

I would grauntee no machine anywhere in the world is 105%.

I was providing an example to the question of whether you can be baited in low stakes games and raked in higher stakes.

However, it didn't take me 2 seconds to google up an online casino advertising a 105% payout slot machine as a July special promotion.

I had suggested we develop a 105% machine that could be made available only to new signups for a month; the idea was however rejected as it may confuse the customer to have a game disappear from the lobby.

 

[drunkguy]

drunkguy works for a sportsbook, that is why he says that you can win

I never found out what sportsbook I work for