woman held hostage by atlanta courtroom killer

[blueedwards]

talks to him about God, the bible, her family...then makes him breakfast:



Ga. Courthouse Reopens Amid Tight Security

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<!-- TextStart -->By ELIOTT C. McLAUGHLIN, Associated Press Writer

ATLANTA - Nervous workers and visitors lined up Monday as the Fulton County Courthouse reopened under heightened security in the wake of the slayings of a judge, deputy and court reporter three days earlier.

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As the courthouse reopened at 8:30 a.m. Monday — almost exactly 72 hours since the shootings — at least 80 people waited in line to get past a security checkpoint set up inside the building. The line snaked down a hallway near the entrance.



The suspected gunman, Brian Nichols, was taken into custody Saturday morning after holding a woman hostage in Gwinnett County for several hours, then freeing her. The woman, Ashley Smith, came forward Sunday to give an account of her ordeal, saying he let her go after they bonded while discussing God, family, pancakes and the massive manhunt going on outside her apartment.



Michael Harris, 58, who was reporting to the courthouse for jury duty, said he felt safer knowing Nichols was behind bars.



"To me, it was one of those unusual things," said Harris. "At any time, terrible things can happen anywhere. You just have to put your faith in God and keep on going."



However, convicted felon Richard Jadwin, 20, who was there to check in with the sheriff's department, said he was felt uncomfortable being at the building.



"There's no guarantees in life. You can't know what a person's next move is going to be. I ain't even going to lie, I'm kind of nervous," said Jadwin, who wouldn't say what crime he was convicted of.



He said more precautions should have been taken with Nichols. Authorities said the rampage started when Nichols overpowered a sheriff's deputy who was transporting Nichols to holding area to prepare for the resumption of his trial on rape and other charges.



Crime scene tape and flowers greeted those who stepped off the elevators in front of the courtroom of Judge Rowland Barnes, which is where Barnes and his court reporter, Julie Brandau, were killed. Both Barnes and Bardau had been working Nichols' trial, which had started Tuesday. Sheriff's Sgt. Hoyt Teasley was killed outside the courthouse, and U.S. Immigration and Customs Enforcement agent David Wilhelm was killed later.



Smith was hailed as a hero for the way she handled herself after Nichols assailed her in the parking lot of her apartment when she returned from a store around 2 a.m. Saturday.



"She acted very cool and levelheaded. We don't normally see that in our profession," said Gwinnett County Police Officer Darren Moloney. "It was an absolutely best-case scenario that happened, a complete opposite of what you expected to happen."



Over the course of the night, Nichols untied Smith, and some of the fear lessened as they talked. Nichols told Smith he felt like "he was already dead," but Smith urged him to consider the fact that he was still alive a "miracle."



"I believe God brought him to my door," Smith said Sunday.



"You're here in my apartment for some reason," she told him, saying he might be destined to be caught and to spread the word of God to fellow prisoners.



After Smith left the apartment and called 911, police soon surrounded her suburban apartment complex and Nichols gave up peacefully, waving a white towel in surrender.



"I honestly think when I looked at him that he didn't want to do it anymore," Smith said. If he did not give up, she told him, "Lots more people are probably going get hurt and you're probably going to die."



Choking back tears Sunday, she said she told Nichols that her husband died four years ago and if he hurt her, her little girl wouldn't have a mother or father. Smith's attorney, Josh Archer, said her husband died in her arms after being stabbed. Smith's 5-year-old daughter was not at the apartment during the ordeal.

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The two talked about the Bible and she handed him photos of her family. When morning came, Nichols was "overwhelmed" when Smith made him pancakes with real butter, she said. He told her he "just wanted some normalness to his life," she said. When Nichols finally let Smith go to a planned meeting with her her daughter, he said he wanted to stay at the apartment for a few more days. But she said she thought he knew she was going to call 911 after she left.

 

[RobFunk]

its funny you post this. and not funny haha, but i mean i was reading about david koresh out of boredom this morning and it really serves as a microcasm for what relegion can do when it has gone the wrong way. here

I think relegion can serve as a decent social function, but once you start thinking that youre closer to god than somebody else or you can know things about the future through god or the bible, then you have lost touch with reality. if youre a good christian, you know know niether of the afore-mentioned are permitted by "god".

in the case of Nichols, I think she took a gamble and banked on the fact he would soften up to some words of the "good book" and made her escape when she had the chance. if nichols didnt care to listen about the bible or its words, she'd probably be dead too.

people were slain, so dont tell me this was the "work of god" unless you can give me at least some relegious reasoning of some sort that those people "deserved to die".

 

[blueedwards]

you can believe what you want about this. i personally believe that the reason she was able to stay calm and almost take pity on this guy was due to her relationship with God. i'm not sure what you mean about predicting the future or any of that but, i personally think that without her strong faith, she'd be dead right now. i don't think she "gambled" as you say...i think she relied on her faith in God and he delivered.

 

[mizagot]

you can believe what you want about this. i personally believe that the reason she was able to stay calm and almost take pity on this guy was due to her belief that she has a relationship with God. i'm not sure what you mean about predicting the future or any of that but, i personally think that without her strong faith, she'd be dead right now. i don't think she "gambled" as you say...i think she relied on her faith in God and she and other people like you believe he delivered.

 

[blueedwards]

you can believe what you want about this. i personally believe that the reason she was able to stay calm and almost take pity on this guy was due to her belief that she has a relationship with God. i'm not sure what you mean about predicting the future or any of that but, i personally think that without her strong faith, she'd be dead right now. i don't think she "gambled" as you say...i think she relied on her faith in God and she and other people like you believe he delivered.

are you saying that God is not real? are you saying it is impossible to know that you have a relationship with God?

 

[eek.]

are you saying that God is not real? are you saying it is
impossible to know that you have a relationship with God?<!-- / message -->

You know? or you believe?

 

[blueedwards]

You know? or you believe?

are you saying its impossible to know?

 

[xpanda]

i personally believe that the reason she was able to stay calm and almost take pity on this guy was due to her relationship with God.

There's a pretty decent chance that you're right about this - that her faith kept her strong. But I have to ask you: do you think it would not have been possible for an atheist or other non-Christian to have remained equally calm and maybe even take pity on this guy? Do you think that only those people who have religious beliefs can be strong in the face of adversity?

If so, I will beg to differ all over the place.

 

[blueedwards]

There's a pretty decent chance that you're right about this - that her faith kept her strong. But I have to ask you: do you think it would not have been possible for an atheist or other non-Christian to have remained equally calm and maybe even take pity on this guy? Do you think that only those people who have religious beliefs can be strong in the face of adversity?

If so, I will beg to differ all over the place.

never said that. just giving my opinion on this particular situation. dont know the facts of this case other than what was in the email. my guess though is that this guy was taken aback by two things:

1) the fact that she did not react to him with fear and/or judgement
2) the fact that she was kind enough to him to really talk to him...even to the point of sympathizing with him. then later, to make him breakfast rather than running out of the apt screaming for help.

he probably was not ready for someone to react to him like that. if she had reacted in a normal way...he probably would have killed her and possibly other people. he certainly wasn't shy about taking a human life when it suited his needs.

she said in her statement that she told him that God brought him to her door for a reason. i suspect she is right.

 

[Journeyman]

very interesting Blue....do you have a website or link I could take a look at that would inspire me more towards God?

or a well known book...

 

[TheRightWing]

I think the whole god called me to the door is a little strong..but will say she probably calmed him about god talk etc. He was fatiuged in my opinion and her calming talks about family,god,etc made him feel trust but great on her part to sense what she sensed.

 

[blueedwards]

very interesting Blue....do you have a website or link I could take a look at that would inspire me more towards God?

or a well known book...

website:
http://www.ccci.org/wij/

book:
"mere christianity" by c.s. lewis

 

[Phaedrus]

posted by RobFunk:

its funny you post this. and not funny haha, but i mean i was reading about david koresh out of boredom this morning and it really serves as a microcasm for what relegion can do when it has gone the wrong way. here

I'd say Waco is a better indicator of why we would all be better off in a chatoic oligarchial state with no "leadership" than of what happens when religious nuts do their thing (you want religious nuts, check out Jonestown.)

I highly recommend the film Waco: The Rules of Engagement. While it has been heralded and embraced by militia fruities, it does present both sides of the incident very well, unlike many of the "Waco conspiracy" films, books and websites. The officers in charge of coordinating that raid should all be in prison for the rest of their lives, if for no other reason than their documented, admitted lie to the military regarding the nature of the situation, which led to them getting access to hardware and support they never would have had otherwise.

Instead (from your link)

Have any federal agents been disciplined for wrongdoing in the Waco affair? And were any of the surviving Davidians convicted of federal charges?


Two ATF supervisors, Chuck Sarabyn and Phillip Chojinacki, were fired, although they were later reinstated at a lower rank. No FBI agents have been officially disciplined. Eight of the surviving Branch Davidians were convicted on charges ranging from voluntary manslaughter to weapons violations. Seven got 40-year prison terms, and the eighth got five years. A ninth, Kathy Schroeder, got three years in prison after testifying for the government.

No accountability at all for federal agents on any level.


Phaedrus

 

[blueedwards]

waco and jonestown are clear examples of religion gone wrong. so are the 9/11 attacks, preists molesting children and countless other examples.

if this woman in atlanta did calm this guy down and convince him to surrender because of her relationship with God, i'd say that is an example of religion gone right. who knows, this guy's life may turn around. but even if it doesn't, who knows how many other people were not killed because of how this woman dealt with this maniac.

 

[RobFunk]

check it out.

im saying for her faith in god to work, the suspect also had to have some kind of relegious background.

so its god at play with the girl and the suspect.

so youre saying god got her to get the suspect to surrender, but he couldnt save the people the suspect killed?!

thats what im saying. i think talking about god threw em for a loop, and also i agree with what right wing said.

 

[Journeyman]

thanks Blue...

 

[Phaedrus]

blue

Jonestown is an example of religion gone wrong.

Waco is an example of the state gone mad.

I think my opinion of religious people in general and zealots in particular is pretty clear from my posts here. Like most people I always dismissed the Branch Davidians as "a bunch of loony cultists" for years, until I actually took the time to review the facts of the incident. While it is undeniable that under Koresh' leadership the BDs were very out there, their somewhat extreme religious interpretations had nothing whatsoever to do with the unnecessary, inexcusable death of more than 80 people at Waco.


Phaedrus

 

[blueedwards]

blue

Jonestown is an example of religion gone wrong.

Waco is an example of the state gone mad.

I think my opinion of religious people in general and zealots in particular is pretty clear from my posts here. Like most people I always dismissed the Branch Davidians as "a bunch of loony cultists" for years, until I actually took the time to review the facts of the incident. While it is undeniable that under Koresh' leadership the BDs were very out there, their somewhat extreme religious interpretations had nothing whatsoever to do with the unnecessary, inexcusable death of more than 80 people at Waco.


Phaedrus

phaedrus, i am in no way saying that what the atf did was right but, what in the world are those cultists doing with all those guns? they were a scary bunch of people who were so loyal to koresh that they were willing to die for his crazy claims that he was in fact the messiah.

 

[blueedwards]

check it out.

im saying for her faith in god to work, the suspect also had to have some kind of relegious background.

so its god at play with the girl and the suspect.

so youre saying god got her to get the suspect to surrender, but he couldnt save the people the suspect killed?!

no i'm not saying that.

 

[RobFunk]

sorry for taking you out of context blue. i think i know what youre saying now.