Why do people perceive "anti-war" to be "anti-American"?

Save the flames. I'm serious.

I have been pondering this for some time now, and I cannot derive a single valid reason why anyone would feel this way.

I'll gladly debate this postition as this thread transpires, but my initial stance that "anti-war IS NOT anti-American" is based on two premises ...

1. Freedom of Speech. The Bill of Rights is as American as it gets. I see a certain hypocracy is calling someone "anti-American" for speaking their mind.

2. No war = no US soldiers dying = the ultimate support of the troops. I don't hate the troops, I merely don't want anyone (uncluding them) to dying unjustly.

If/When facts "justifying" this war are presented (not fabricated like the uranium purchasing documents) I will support President Bush & his Security Counsil. Until then, I will continue to be objective much like the Germans should have been under Hilter.

 

[cussin'it]

Quite the contrary view my friend, being anti-unprovoked imperialistic invasion is highly American, in fact it is strongly recommended in the Federalist Papers.

To be against this war in my mind includes your points and the following:

War is costly, in both human and economic terms. At this point it is a betrayal to the American people to spend hundreds of billions, when we have more and more needy people here at home, gov't intending to cut back on education, health and welfare of it citizens, but finds billions to pull off this hypocracy.
Ridiculous decision-making here by our leadership, close to impeachable in my opinion.

But the time has passed to be against the war....now is the time for us who opposed it to support our troops and the quick resolution of this action, keeping the pressure on the Administration---that we will hold them accountable for a long protracted debacle.
Get it done and bring our brave young men and women home ASAP, and be careful to limit civillian casualties.

_________________________
Sure could use a trim

 

[Seymour]

I'm for a vicious war with an unrelentless beating on any country that attacks the US. I am not for an unprovoked war against a country that did nothing to us.

 

[PatPatriot]

Lander, Seymours post was anti-war although I don't agree with him.

The anti-US gang is coming out of the woodwork, such were the comments today by a Colombia U Proff. at a "teach in". Where he said that he wishes for a "million Mogadishus"...nice huh?

Or how about the hollywood crowd with their signs "Bush is a murderer" when a shot hasn't been fired. Instead of "No war, Saddam disarm!"Instead these fxckin treasonous cocksuckers march in protest that are funded by "world workers party" a communist group, along with known groups that support anti US activites...but hollywood dopes say "..we support the troops."And think they can get away with it.How many USO shows have Barbra Streisand et al. done?
So you have Hollywood and acedemic intellects making comments like that, and doing protest with anti american sponsors all because of politics, (anti-Bush)...and think they can get away with the cover of "we support the troops".As this continues watch how this changes.

 

[Mr.Smith]

anti-war and anti-us are different issues. no doubt. yet anti-war people have a very high correlation with being anti-US. I hope this answers your question.

Seymour, thanks for yet another example of the utter and complete ignorance of world events past and present that pervades anti-war fools.Please return to your slumber and do not offer opinions which show a lack of any understanding of who Saddam Hussein is and what his actions have been and what his plans are.

 

"yet anti-war people have a very high correlation with being anti-US"

Are you stating this as opinion or do you believe it be fact?

There have been hundreds of thousands of anti-war protests in NYC alone, given that you alleged a high correlation with anti-war people being anti-American do you also believe the majority of these hundreds of thousands of protesters are anti-American?

 

[PatPatriot]

Mr.Smith should go to Washington!

 

Patriot,
It seems to me that you've made it clear that anti-war and anti-American are different species IYHO (though you believe a person can obviously be both). I happen to agree.

Do you also feel "anti-Bush" and "anti-American" are different things?

 

lander....i read many of your posts because although anti-war,i sense a willingness to discuss the issue....and a willingness to not only provide opinion ,but actually listen.....but,all you have to do is go back and read some of the posts by the "costa ricans"and other non-american coterie to establish an anti-american bias that goes way beyond this war.....i think that`s pretty obvious....


as a guy that feels he understands the motivation for this war,but still has mixed emotions regarding the ramifications and potential end game,i felt obligated to respond to some of the blatant anti-american bashing...and i probably came off as totally for this war.....when in fact i have serious reservations....

but it`s obvious that there are plenty of "america haters" on this board.....

 

[SAFETANA]

Because there are so many dumb people who dont realize that our real enemies are neo-conservatives not saddam or bin laden!

 

[PatPatriot]

Yes.And you can be anti-bush and antiwar legitmatley, but some sayin that they are antiwar is a cover for the other 2.
If you take the antbush and antiamerican ought of the equastion.You have about 40% left that are truly antiwar.

 

[Mr.Smith]

lander,

respectfully, I think anti-war americans are stupid, ignorant fools who have no understanding of world events or realities.

I belive anti-war Vietnam protestors were correct and that many anti-war protestors today think they will someday be seen as correct like the Vietnam protestors were, when really this is a completely different situation.

Anti-war americans are mostly sheep being spoon fed the idea of peace without effort by radicals.

Yet, lander, there are these things called other countries. now here is where my anti-american and anti-war correlation takes hold. Most american anti-war protestors are like I've said, stupid misguided tools.

But most people in other countries are against this war and also are against the US, so yes most anti-war protesters are anti-war and anti-us. The globe is bigger than new york city, though those that live there would vehemently argue otherwise.

 

spinchter,
Thanks for the clarification. I can understand you point about Costa Ricans, etc .. hating America, although I respectfully disagree (slightly). My intial question was a bit misworded, but I was more curious to discover other's find the American "anti-war" posters (eg, Jake & I) to be "anti-American".

 

"respectfully, I think anti-war americans are stupid, ignorant fools who have no understanding of world events or realities."

Interesting wording. It seems to me that if you believe someone to be "stupid, ignorant fools (with) no understanding .. of reality" that you probably wouldn't take any of their positions seriously, not just this one.

Have you at least taken the time to read/listen to these views (not on theRX) and to better understand their positions?
I was listening to an old WWII vet speak on some Rush-wannabe right winged conservative station the other day & the gentlemen gave his pro-war justification as "the world has gone to hell, it's about time we're cleaning it up".

I don't understand that position, it doesn't offer any logic to support it's claim. I think this will always be the problem with the "Bush Doctrine" and it's "preventive" wars - the whole counrty is asked to put their trust into a politician that doesn't need to answer to the public & most people simply don't trust politicians. At least prior to the doctrine you had a "bunch of politicians" (Congress) collectively holding your trust.

"I belive anti-war Vietnam protestors were correct and that many anti-war protestors today think they will someday be seen as correct like the Vietnam protestors were, when really this is a completely different situation."

Interesting point, I wasn't around during the Vietnam war, but I suspect that the protestors at the time were also heavily critized for being "anti-American". My father was a sniper in the Marines during Vietnam War & his stories suggest that these posters not only hated the war, but hated the troops that fought the war. Perhaps this was just the difference of having a first-hand experience, but it does suggest that todays protesters are much more supportive of the troops than the Vietnam protesters were.

"Anti-war americans are mostly sheep being spoon fed the idea of peace without effort by radicals."
Bill Clinton suggests a similiar approach of peace, I'm not sure he's exactly "radical".
I fail to see any reasoning to support this claim.

"But most people in other countries are against this war and also are against the US, so yes most anti-war protesters are anti-war and anti-us."

I'm not convinced of this. I think the "anti-war" stance is more cause & effect than simply a "anti-American" thing. This statement isn't consistant with the fact that the entire world supported us in Afghanistan. And this claim also doesn't explain the heavy protesting in the UK and Australia.

"The globe is bigger than new york city, though those that live there would vehemently argue otherwise."

Amen.

 

[oldmantime]

What's that old saying" If it walk like a duck and talks like a duck---hey just maybe it's a duck"

Now--"IT'S TIME TO BOMB SADDAM.

 

The problems is alot of the protesters hate America and hate Bush and have other motives than protesting this war. If one of these protesters block the military or the use of public services they should be arrested, tried and if convicted jail for not more than 30 years during this time of war.

The war has started and the debate should be over. You so called anti-war people are helping the enemy at this point.

The leftest media is aiding the enemy also. Why is it the leftest media did not show us the up close dead and injured bodies of 9/11 and now anytime an iraqi citizens gets a hang nail the cameras zoom in. I'll tell you why the leftest media wants the US to lose. Show us the pictures of 9/11.

 

[radiofreecostarica]

patriot,
>such were the comments today by a Colombia U Proff. at a "teach in".

this didn't happen today....unless we have a shining example of "pre-emptive" reporting when the original article was posted two days ago....

 

Out,
Do you believe in Freedom of Speech?

 

What do you think we have been doing for 11 days? Unless of course you mean the use of WMD, or in other words a nuclear bomb. First of all I thought this war was to take WMD out of the hands of governments or radical extremists who may choose to use one on a population. Correct me if I am wrong, are you saying we should drop a nuclear bomb on Iraq in order to end this tragic war?

Patriot, what is the cost of your precious war now? At least 50 coalition solders killed, with no end in sight. More and more bombing, more and more innocent Iraqis killed or horribly wounded.

All of you experts out there have underestimated the will of a nation to defend itself. Sooner or later we will win this waste of life and change the regime, but at what cost? I as many of you know am an American and a VietNam veteran, but I have to say right now I am ashamed of these facts. Bomb on Dubya.

wil.

 

[oldmantime]

You know--War is Hell! Somebody once said. I did not at first nor do I know have reason for going to war with Iraq. But--frankly-I'm a bit tired of hearing let's stop now. So-although, I pray for as few innocent people as possible to be hurt or injured---I say hold NOTHING back to end this ASAP. Now there are smarter folks than I running the military operations. So-be it. When I say" TIME TO BOMB SADDAM", I'm saying in the words of a great soul singer Marvin Gaye---"Let's Get It On"!!!