Who is going to go with Shackleford?

Search

Member
Joined
Jul 26, 2007
Messages
3,105
Tokens
Friday, 6/10/11 we had the Brooklyn Handicap at 1 1/2 miles. Birdrun on the lead and was opening lenghts up over the rest of the field at the finish wire.

Track was set up to favor front runners on Friday......carry over to Saturday ????

Read were Master of Hounds was real frisky once he was released from "his cell"....Maybe he is wound up and ready to take off........

Guess we all will know Saturday at 6:35PM

Remember 1st race Post on 6-11 is 11:30 AM !!!!
 
Joined
Sep 14, 2007
Messages
5,579
Tokens
ADD Risen Star to the list of horses who won the Belmont running in all 3 legs, along with Tabasco Cat, and Hansel

If you would read the other thread, you would realize this has already been established. And read it all so you understand exactly how it all started...
 

New member
Joined
Apr 14, 2011
Messages
1,228
Tokens
I said Shackleford could not win and he did not. I did not even address his breeding. DUH!!!!! Can't and did not handle the mile and a half!!!!!!

Regarding Risen Star....if it were not for Eddie Delahoussaye, his jockey, he would have won The Kentucky Derby, as he did The Preakness and The Belmont. Delahoussaye let Winning Colors and Gary Stevens, get a easy lead in The Derby, as Delahoussaye did not follow instructions given to him by owner/trainer Louie Roussel, III. He was instructed to lay no worse than fourth, and Delahoussaye claims he misunderstood instructions. He begged to retain the mount and in The Belmont layed second behind Winning Colors, and took the lead on the backside and won by about 25 lengths. Risen Star is the only son of Secretariat to ever win a Triple Crown race, and were it not for Delahoussaye, would have won The Triple Crown.

Fat Harry
 

New member
Joined
Apr 14, 2011
Messages
1,228
Tokens
ICAUITUA- You are not in any way saying that Tobasco Cat, Hansel or any horse that ran today was anything as gifted and as talented and as proven as Risen Star are you? I hope not. That would be absurd!

wabashwonders- I hope you realize Risen Star was certainly in a class by himself. The late jock Bill Hartack, who watched Risen Star, told me, that Risen Star was truly one of the most talented thoroughbreds he ever saw. "Other than Secretariat, his sire, no one ran a more impressive winning Belmont race." ~ Bill Hartack (Who won 5 Kentucky Derby races.)

Fat Harry
 

New member
Joined
Jun 19, 2005
Messages
1,175
Tokens
ICAUITUA- You are not in any way saying that Tobasco Cat, Hansel or any horse that ran today was anything as gifted and as talented and as proven as Risen Star are you? I hope not. That would be absurd!

wabashwonders- I hope you realize Risen Star was certainly in a class by himself. The late jock Bill Hartack, who watched Risen Star, told me, that Risen Star was truly one of the most talented thoroughbreds he ever saw. "Other than Secretariat, his sire, no one ran a more impressive winning Belmont race." ~ Bill Hartack (Who won 5 Kentucky Derby races.)

Fat Harry

FAT HARRY you're reading into my post too much I was just stating a bunch of horses who won the Belmont running in all 3 legs, there is no hint at comparison of any of the runners
 
Joined
Sep 14, 2007
Messages
5,579
Tokens
I said Shackleford could not win and he did not. I did not even address his breeding. DUH!!!!! Can't and did not handle the mile and a half!!!!!!

Regarding Risen Star....if it were not for Eddie Delahoussaye, his jockey, he would have won The Kentucky Derby, as he did The Preakness and The Belmont. Delahoussaye let Winning Colors and Gary Stevens, get a easy lead in The Derby, as Delahoussaye did not follow instructions given to him by owner/trainer Louie Roussel, III. He was instructed to lay no worse than fourth, and Delahoussaye claims he misunderstood instructions. He begged to retain the mount and in The Belmont layed second behind Winning Colors, and took the lead on the backside and won by about 25 lengths. Risen Star is the only son of Secretariat to ever win a Triple Crown race, and were it not for Delahoussaye, would have won The Triple Crown.

Fat Harry

You also said Nehro couldn't lose, so whats your point?
 

New member
Joined
Apr 14, 2011
Messages
1,228
Tokens
My point is that NEHRO (breeding/trainer) had a better chance of winning The Belmont than Shackleford did, as NEHRO had a chance, Shackleford on breeding and being forced on the lead, without one shot of going a mile and a half in a winning time, did not. Dale Romans is a guy who without longtime trainer W.I. Billy Fox, as his advisor, could never train Lassie to fetch a bone. Assmussen, Hall of Famer, who forgot more than Romans ever knew about training, would have never asked Shackleford to attempt a mile and one half. Dale Romans is just another guy who lives off his father's great record and knowledge of the game, and his trainer behind the scenes W.I. Billy Fox, would be a nobody. Fox begged Romans not to run Shakleford in the Belmont. Maybe one day he will start listening to Mr. Fox, who Romans pays $5,000 a week just to advise him. Thats another point I was attempting to make......do you have any idea how many trainers in this country, have guys who are ex-trainers, up in age, who call all the shots? Well I do....because for 30 years, I trained horses, and was blessed to enjoy the game and the challenge, as a hobby, while seeing first hand, the real whos who in racing and who really calls the shots in some of the biggest outfits in the country. I have a lot of points I could make, but I really don't enjoy exposing the inner circles of the real racing community, regarding who is real and who simply has no clue. If Billy Fox, and his daughter Tammy, who is married to Romans, ever leaves him, he will be doing just what he did for his dad, that is muck stalls and at best retain a assistant trainers liscense. You could have trained Shackleford, but not going a mile and a half. Need any more points? My points are facts not rumors. Try reading three books in your spare time. 1) Feeding To Win 2) Conditioning To Win 3) The Vetinary Encyclopedia For Training The Thoroughbred. Then you might be able to talk about the thoroughbred racing game. Until then, GL!

Fat Harry
 
Joined
Sep 14, 2007
Messages
5,579
Tokens
My point is that NEHRO (breeding/trainer) had a better chance of winning The Belmont than Shackleford did, as NEHRO had a chance, Shackleford on breeding and being forced on the lead, without one shot of going a mile and a half in a winning time, did not. Dale Romans is a guy who without longtime trainer W.I. Billy Fox, as his advisor, could never train Lassie to fetch a bone. Assmussen, Hall of Famer, who forgot more than Romans ever knew about training, would have never asked Shackleford to attempt a mile and one half. Dale Romans is just another guy who lives off his father's great record and knowledge of the game, and his trainer behind the scenes W.I. Billy Fox, would be a nobody. Fox begged Romans not to run Shakleford in the Belmont. Maybe one day he will start listening to Mr. Fox, who Romans pays $5,000 a week just to advise him. Thats another point I was attempting to make......do you have any idea how many trainers in this country, have guys who are ex-trainers, up in age, who call all the shots? Well I do....because for 30 years, I trained horses, and was blessed to enjoy the game and the challenge, as a hobby, while seeing first hand, the real whos who in racing and who really calls the shots in some of the biggest outfits in the country. I have a lot of points I could make, but I really don't enjoy exposing the inner circles of the real racing community, regarding who is real and who simply has no clue. If Billy Fox, and his daughter Tammy, who is married to Romans, ever leaves him, he will be doing just what he did for his dad, that is muck stalls and at best retain a assistant trainers liscense. You could have trained Shackleford, but not going a mile and a half. Need any more points? My points are facts not rumors. Try reading three books in your spare time. 1) Feeding To Win 2) Conditioning To Win 3) The Vetinary Encyclopedia For Training The Thoroughbred. Then you might be able to talk about the thoroughbred racing game. Until then, GL!

Fat Harry
When is the last time you posted a winner on here that didnt pay $3.20. You call yourself a handicapper when you get on here and guarantee horses will win, then they lose? I have only been doing this for 7 years and I am sure you know alot more than I do about horse racing, but I can handicap a race just as good if not better than you. An dthats pretty sad considering you been doing this for over 30 years and I only been doing it for 7...
 

New member
Joined
Sep 14, 2007
Messages
406
Tokens
My point is that NEHRO (breeding/trainer) had a better chance of winning The Belmont than Shackleford did, as NEHRO had a chance, Shackleford on breeding and being forced on the lead, without one shot of going a mile and a half in a winning time, did not. Dale Romans is a guy who without longtime trainer W.I. Billy Fox, as his advisor, could never train Lassie to fetch a bone. Assmussen, Hall of Famer, who forgot more than Romans ever knew about training, would have never asked Shackleford to attempt a mile and one half. Dale Romans is just another guy who lives off his father's great record and knowledge of the game, and his trainer behind the scenes W.I. Billy Fox, would be a nobody. Fox begged Romans not to run Shakleford in the Belmont. Maybe one day he will start listening to Mr. Fox, who Romans pays $5,000 a week just to advise him. Thats another point I was attempting to make......do you have any idea how many trainers in this country, have guys who are ex-trainers, up in age, who call all the shots? Well I do....because for 30 years, I trained horses, and was blessed to enjoy the game and the challenge, as a hobby, while seeing first hand, the real whos who in racing and who really calls the shots in some of the biggest outfits in the country. I have a lot of points I could make, but I really don't enjoy exposing the inner circles of the real racing community, regarding who is real and who simply has no clue. If Billy Fox, and his daughter Tammy, who is married to Romans, ever leaves him, he will be doing just what he did for his dad, that is muck stalls and at best retain a assistant trainers liscense. You could have trained Shackleford, but not going a mile and a half. Need any more points? My points are facts not rumors. Try reading three books in your spare time. 1) Feeding To Win 2) Conditioning To Win 3) The Vetinary Encyclopedia For Training The Thoroughbred. Then you might be able to talk about the thoroughbred racing game. Until then, GL!

Fat Harry


You are a complete joke. You post nothing but garbage chalk and your self-proclaimed "best day ever" was picking a 4-5 shot, 2-1 shot and a 5-1 "longshot" in succession. You give out a "cant miss" 3-5 shot who runs out of the money and then you tell us you will never post again. 4 days later you give us a "can't miss" Belmont winner who runs out of the money. And now you want to talk down to people?

But the biggest problem here is that you are lecturing others on a topic that you are utterly clueless on, breeding.

The ultimate irony is that in your discussion of breeding you bring up Secretariat and his line. Obviously you don't have the first clue that Secretariat himself was sired by a confirmed sprinter.

Those of us who actually understand breeding know that dam-side stamina influences very frequently trump sire-side limitations, as was the case with Secretariat. Shackleford's mare, Oatsee, has dropped several high-performing route horses, including a filly who won the 10f G1 Alabama stakes. Shackleford would be fine at 1 1/2 miles under normal conditions, however, 3 races in 5 weeks is a lot to ask of any horse, which is one of the reasons why horses that start in all 3 so rarely place in the Belmont.

The other irony is that the horse you touted, Nehro, is sired by Mineshaft. Mineshaft offspring do very well at 8-9 furlongs. Can you tell me how many Mineshaft offspring have ever won a graded stakes longer than 9 furlongs? I bet you can't, because there's only been one. His dam being out of Afleet does not offer much stamina help either, the average winning distance of his offspring is less than 8f.

This is the reason you never see him winning, he has a burst of speed that would be well served in the 8-9 furlong range, but if you use it too early, as was done in the Derby, he is losing ground at the end of the of a longer race. And if you wait to use it, you fall too far back and can't quite catch up. You could run that race 100 times and Nehro would NEVER win it. But if Shackleford had 5 weeks rest and the same pace setup, he would be right there at the end.

I feel very sorry for anyone following your extremely flawed "insider knowledge".
 
Joined
Dec 11, 2006
Messages
50,632
Tokens
tread,

I am a serious handicapper. Have been handicapping for forty years. Have done independent studies re the factors that lead to winners.

But, I know little about breeding. From a handicapping standpoint there is no way anyone could have picked #3 to win the Belmont. My initial thought was that he must have been bred up and down for the distance and/or the mud. Curious what you saw in the breeding for this unlikely winner.

///

Re Shackleford and the 1 1/2 miles, he wasn't bred to go the 1 3/16 Preakness distance either. He did.
 

New member
Joined
Sep 14, 2007
Messages
406
Tokens
tread,

I am a serious handicapper. Have been handicapping for forty years. Have done independent studies re the factors that lead to winners.

But, I know little about breeding. From a handicapping standpoint there is no way anyone could have picked #3 to win the Belmont. My initial thought was that he must have been bred up and down for the distance and/or the mud. Curious what you saw in the breeding for this unlikely winner.

///

Re Shackleford and the 1 1/2 miles, he wasn't bred to go the 1 3/16 Preakness distance either. He did.

I'm sorry, but you guys are just flatout wrong when you say he "wasn't bred to go the 1 3/16th Preakness distance". I'll repeat myself. This dam dropped a different Grade 1 winner at 10 furlongs. And you are questioning how this horse got 9.5 furlongs? And yet another horse who won the Iowa Oaks and Indiana Breeders' Cup Oaks. This dam drops routing horses.

As for the Belmont, there aren't ANY horses these days bred to get 12 furlongs. I did not use the winner, as most others did not. The standout item to me is the Saratoga Six on the dam side and how much they like slop. There was not anyone closing on that track all day after the rain started. All you had to do is get near the lead, and had Shak had proper rest into the race, I'm betting he would have lasted. Just look at the results of the Brooklyn the day before. Being alone on the lead at 1 1/2 miles under normal circumstances is very dangerous.

The Belmont is an extremely chaotic race because of the distance. I don't fault anyone for taking stands for or against horses for sound reasons, but anyone talking about the Belmont with any sort of certainty does not know what he is talking about. And trying to use pedigrees as the sole basis for a decision and ignoring your eyes (like already knowing Shak can get 10.5 F and Animal Kingdom did not even pass him after the wire) is a great way to come up with a loser. Go to Dr. Romans chef-de-race site and look at all the pre-Derby stuff he had. He listed tons of different categories for including horses among the winners and excluding horses who should not win based on his "historical data". Animal Kingdom did not appear in any of the winning categories and appeared in most of the exclusionary categories. His stuff is absolutely irrelevant when it comes to modern-day classic races and has been for the last 8-10 years.
 

New member
Joined
Sep 14, 2007
Messages
406
Tokens
One last ironic twist...

In a thread from a week ago, Fat Harry lamented that his chalk pick for a Churchill maiden route race was an "unlucky" loser to a 19-1 longshot. That longshot was Afleeting Lady, who is out of Oatsee, Shackelford's mare.
 

Member
Joined
Sep 18, 2005
Messages
2,475
Tokens
When is the last time you posted a winner on here that didnt pay $3.20. You call yourself a handicapper when you get on here and guarantee horses will win, then they lose? I have only been doing this for 7 years and I am sure you know alot more than I do about horse racing, but I can handicap a race just as good if not better than you. An dthats pretty sad considering you been doing this for over 30 years and I only been doing it for 7...

This is all Ive seen of the guy as well... his winners are like the 4/5 variety, he had one for about $7 and was RAVING about it yet he never comes back to mention his many, many misses at all from what I've seen. He comes off as a creeping tout IMO and is most definitely an Atteniton Whore.
Good to see him coming under scrutiny. I don't know who these poor coat-tailers are following him but they could do a whole lot better by following some of the usual posters at Rx Horses.
 

Forum statistics

Threads
1,122,471
Messages
13,612,995
Members
101,340
Latest member
premiertickets
The RX is the sports betting industry's leading information portal for bonuses, picks, and sportsbook reviews. Find the best deals offered by a sportsbook in your state and browse our free picks section.FacebookTwitterInstagramContact Usforum@therx.com