Ohhhhhh, GoSooners, you have stirred up the USCw faithful by not counting their 1/2 non BCS NC.
I am hoping that Urban Meyer gets there this season. If Florida gets in the game, they might have a small chance since the game is in Miami. As Mick Huber, the voice of the Gators says, Ohhhhhhhhhh Myyyyyyyyyyyy!
:toast: LTHey Coach..How ya been buddy. If I had to pick a name out of there, I would probably have to go with Meyer...But he's got to get there first..It's still a tough choice. I know the USC faithful will say the repeat has already happened with Carroll..But the official paperwork still says LSU won the BCS and all USC came away with was a lousy t-shirt that said AP poll Champions!Ohhhhhh, GoSooners, you have stirred up the USCw faithful by not counting their 1/2 non BCS NC.
I am hoping that Urban Meyer gets there this season. If Florida gets in the game, they might have a small chance since the game is in Miami. As Mick Huber, the voice of the Gators says, Ohhhhhhhhhh Myyyyyyyyyyyy!
Great question.
I think it will be decided this year.
Meyer
Carrol
They should both be at or near the NC game without a doubt. IMHO, Fulmer should be on the hot seat. He's a real long shot. Apparently there's too much competition for him to deal with lately in the SEC.
I don't think OSU will prevail at the coliseum. I'm not sure that the writers involved in the rankings will be so kind to Ohio St. unless they can pull out the road win in LA.
And CoachLT... that 2003 split championship gave rise to the 2004 USC war cry "Leave no Doubt" in '04. In retrospect, I can live with that. Aside from that, let's hope we can settle this next January at the Orange Bowl NC game... your own back yard... I can handle that.
I think it will be decided this year.
Meyer
Carrol
They should both be at or near the NC game without a doubt. IMHO, Fulmer should be on the hot seat. He's a real long shot. Apparently there's too much competition for him to deal with lately in the SEC.
I don't think OSU will prevail at the coliseum. I'm not sure that the writers involved in the rankings will be so kind to Ohio St. unless they can pull out the road win in LA.
And CoachLT... that 2003 split championship gave rise to the 2004 USC war cry "Leave no Doubt" in '04. In retrospect, I can live with that. Aside from that, let's hope we can settle this next January at the Orange Bowl NC game... your own back yard... I can handle that.
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Jim Tressel's Record at Ohio State and His Similarity to Bob Stoops
David Wunderlich puts Jim Tressel's record at Ohio State under the microscope and lists its striking similarities to Bob Stoops' record at Oklahoma.
by David Wunderlich (Columnist)
36 comments 966 reads
July 06, 2008
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He has accumulated many nicknames over the years, from the Senator to CheatyPants McSweaterVest. He has also accumulated many wins, conference titles, a national title, and two spectacular flameouts in the past two BCS title games.
He is Jim Tressel, head coach of Ohio State and one of the more controversial figures in college football.
He would seem an unlikely candidate for controversy. He wins a lot but seldom via embarrassing blowouts. He speaks out in public only on rare occasions. He projects an image of a conservative, almost introverted college professor who is more likely to give a lecture on economics than a pregame motivational speech.
Then again, Tressel earned the second nickname listed above thanks to a string of off the field incidents ranging from player arrests to guys taking money from boosters.
They date back to his time at Youngstown State, and a New York Times article from the week before his game against Florida outlines the major stories if you're interested.
One thing that can't be denied, however, is that the man wins a lot of games. Through seven seasons in Columbus, he has won a national title, four conference titles, and appeared in five BCS bowl games.
He is one of only two coaches, along with Bob Stoops, to have made three BCS championship games. However, they are also the only two coaches to have lost two of them in a row.
Ohio State has won the Big Ten three years in a row, and it appears to have the best team going into 2008. That means Tressel is threatening to turn the Big Ten into what Pete Carroll has made the Pac-10: one team on top and everyone else playing for second place.
Here is Tressel's record broken down by site. This table does not include games against I-AA teams.
Jim Tressel at Ohio State Site Wins Losses Totals
Home 44 5 49
Away 24 8 32
Bowls 4 3 7
Totals 72 16 88
Overall, that's pretty impressive. That's a winning percentage of .818, which is about as good as anyone can do over an extended period of time.
The bowl record obviously could use some work, but I'll get into more of that later. The home record isn't quite as good as I had expected, but two of those five losses came in Tressel's first year.
Here is Tressel's record broken down by site. As always, first tier opponents are teams that had a winning percentage of .750 or better, second tier were .500 to .749, third tier opponents were .250 to .499, and fourth tier opponents were .249 and below.
Jim Tressel at Ohio State Tier Wins Losses Pct. Avg. Scored Avg. Allowed
First 9 9 .500 23 24
Second 31 5 .861 28 15
Third 28 2 .933 33 13
Fourth 4 0 1.000 31 6
The obvious: he wins a lot of games, beats the teams he should beat, but doesn't win by gaudy scores. This much we knew. The two losses to third tier teams, if you were wondering, were to five-win teams in his first year on the job.
That said, the 9-9 record against the top tier surprised me.
Prior to the last two BCS title games, Tressel had a reputation for being one of the best big game coaches in America. He could be counted on to win the big games, and he was one of the few in the country trusted to do so. Yet toss out those two championship game fiascoes, and he's a good but not great 9-7 against that top tier.
One of those seven other losses was to Vince Young in 2005, which is entirely understandable. Two more were to Illinois' miracle 2001 squad and Lou Holtz's one good South Carolina team in Tressel's first year, which are also understandable.
He also had losses to Joe Paterno's last great Penn State team (the 11-1 team in 2005), Kirk Ferentz's last great Iowa team (his 10-2 team in 2004), and the sole loss to Michigan in 2003 (which can't be complained about given the outcome of every other Michigan game). Overall, it's hard to blame him for those.
However, guys don't get reputations for being great coaches on the biggest stages based on understandable losses. I have to conclude that his big game rep was built on beating Michigan year in and year out and his 4-1 bowl record through the 2005 season.
Perhaps that should be enough to qualify a coach for that status, but maybe we shouldn't have been so surprised to see the losses to Florida and LSU. Given that LSU was almost certainly the better team from the start of 2007 and the overwhelming talent on Florida's defense, those losses were also understandable (though the final scores were not).
I mentioned Bob Stoops earlier, and now I want to bring him up again. He and Tressel have many similarities, most notably their winning the national title in their second years and then going on to lose two BCS title games in a row. I wanted to see, though, just how similar their records are.
So, here are the records of Stoops in his first seven seasons and Tressel side by side.
Stoops and Tressel, through 7 Seasons Stoops Tressel
Record 74-16 72-16
Bowl Record 4-3 4-3
BCSCG Record 1-2 1-2
vs. 1st Tier 14-7 9-9
vs. 2nd Tier 27-7 31-5
vs. 3rd Tier 26-2 28-2
vs. 4th Tier 7-0 4-0
Nat. Titles 1 1
Conf. Titles 3 4
vs. Rival 5-2 6-1
Heismans 1 (J. White) 1 (T. Smith)
BCSCG means BCS Championship Game. For Stoops, "Rival" means Texas; for Tressel, "Rival" means Michigan.
Their records aren't just similar, they're eerily close. Just about as close as Mack Brown and Phil Fulmer through 10 years.
Stoops was better against the top tier, but Tressel was a little better against the second. Otherwise, everything is basically the same down to getting blown out in the national title game with their Heisman-winning quarterbacks.
It gets even spookier when you line up the year-by-year records of each from best to worst:
Records by Year Stoops Tressel
13-0 14-0
12-1 12-1
12-2 11-2
12-2 11-2
11-2 10-2
8-4 8-4
7-5 7-5
It can't get any closer than that, can it? Have a look at the year-by-year records for Oklahoma and Ohio State if you want to reconcile the differences in number of games for each season, though most have to do with Oklahoma playing in the Big 12 title game.
This second section was mainly for fun, since there's not a lot that can be gleaned from it. It's a remarkable coincidence that these two coaches in different conferences in different time periods with fairly different philosophies can do almost the exact same thing over such a long period of time.
It just goes to show that football success takes all types, and that even high levels of success can be matched elsewhere.
Will Tressel go into as big a bowl tailspin as Stoops did? It's just one of the many interesting subplots that will make the 2008 college football season great.
Want to write for Bleacher Report? We are a community of fans who write about sports. And we're growing. Click here to learn more. comments (36) write a comment »write a new comment
reply to comment by bowlbasaur
2 days ago Good comparison, but it is a common trend among big name coaches at football factories like OU and OSU. At this time it looks like USC will avoid it, but winning a NC early and then struggling to maintain a top level happens to lots of teams... Michigan with Carr, Tennessee with Fulmer-> Florida with Meyer? Va Tech with Beamer?
by David
from 2 days ago Not sure what you mean by "struggling to maintain a top level" when OU has just one season since 2000 where it hasn't won 11 games and OSU has been to the national title game two years in a row. I'd call both of those a top level any day of the week.
VT has won 10 games all but two seasons since 2000, so I'd call that a top level too. Meyer hasn't been at Florida long enough to even set a baseline for judging his record.
by bowlbasaur
from 2 days ago To tell the truth I didn't even read the article but guessed what it said. By maintain a top level I mean winning MNCs, obviously that is too much to expect from a coach but lots of fanbases do anyways, esp in the BCS eras. They should be happy about beating the rival and winning the conference, and worry much less about bowl performance than they do. That said losing a bowl game, especially getting blown out like Stoops and Tressell have been lately, does put a negative feeling on a great overall season.
by David
from 2 days ago Thanks, but next time please at least look at the tables or read a couple paragraphs before commenting. Nowhere do I bash Tressel or Stoops for losing national title games. It should be obvious to anyone that there's no shame in making the BCS title game on a regular basis.
by Paul
from 2 days ago Va Tech has maintained a high level but they have not won the national title as you suggested. They lost the Sugar Bowl to Florida State during the 1999 season.
by David
from 2 days ago I should have clarified, Paul. VT has maintained a top level despite not winning a national title. I don't think you have to win it all to be considered a top program, though doing so does separate you from the pack.
reply to comment by Tim
2 days ago I did read the article (hooray for me!). Awesome stuff, David.
I specifically remember all the "Nobody can beat Tressel in a big game" talk before the FL slaughter. This seems to show otherwise.
reply to comment by The Doctor
2 days ago Die-hard OSU fan and I am estatic on the continued high-level of sucess that TSV (The Sweater Vest) has brought back to the program the .500 record versus the creme de la creme is disconcerting.
I believe TSV was only 2-2 or close to that in D-IAA Championship games if I remember correctly.
That being said, I agree there is no shame in being in a BCS Bowl every year and a contender for the NC Game. It's better than where they were in the 80's and early 90's.
Great breakdown.
by David
from 2 days ago I looked it up, and Tressel was 4-2 in I-AA title games.
Being .500 against the top tier really isn't too big a worry in Tressel's case. As I mentioned, it's extremely difficult to do better than his .818 winning percentage over many seasons. If you're losing to the top tier, that means you're not losing to the lower tiers.
I have to believe that falling to that 11-1 Penn State team or the 10-2 Iowa team is better than losing to the Michigan States and Northwesterns of the world, even if you do beat those top teams.
by The Doctor
from 2 days ago Yeah, I looked it up right after and it is 4-2.
True on your last point, but a loss is still a loss.
Thanks.
reply to comment by Tyler
2 days ago Very interesting stuff. I'm a Buckeye fan myself, and I never realized the similarities between the two, and as much as I hate to say it, you are correct. Makes you wonder if this is a pattern you can predict with ALL instantly successful coaches at BCS schools...
by David
from 2 days ago It's definitely something to keep track of over the next few seasons. We'll see if Urban Meyer and Les Miles can sustain success the way Stoops and Tressel have.
reply to comment by Ryan
2 days ago Well, Tressel did win with Cooper's recruits in 2002...
reply to comment by BabyTate
2 days ago Tressel is total class and a caring fine fellow. Stoops demonstrates on camera a mean spirited personality and is far too harsh on undeserving reporters and well wishers. There is nothing about this Stoops's personality that compares to the gentlemanly Jim Tressel.
You may compare some kind of athletic competition record between the two but, that doesn't extend to comparing the two men as individuals.
Recordwise, Stoops last went to a BCS title game 4 years ago. All of his success in getting into the BCS title game was in the early part of this decade. Tressel has been in the last two title games played and won a BCS title in the early part of the decade. Stoops isn't even the last coach in his conference to be in or win a BCS title game, Mack Brown is. Stoops is best known for having his team surrender on the field to Sou Cal in the '04 season title game 55-19, being tricked by the 1940s Statue of Liberty play by mid-major Boise St. in 2006 season Bowls, losing to a deflated West Va. team playing in its 1st game under a new coach in 2007 season Bowls, and "preparing" his team for the biggest upset loss in any conference title championship game when his #1 Sooners were slaughtered by unherladed Kansas State 35-7 in 2003.
There is really nothing about Stoops that should be compared to Jim Tressel.
by David
from 2 days ago You may note upon further inspection that the comparison between the two was all about the numbers that make up their records and had nothing to do with anything else.
It also could be said that Florida called off the dogs in the 2007 BCS title game (and if you go back and watch it, they did) and could have won by more than 41-14. Also, West Virginia's players last bowl season weren't deflated, but were inspired to show the world it didn't need Rich Rodriguez and how much they love Bill Stewart. Not everything is how you have presented it.
Tressel isn't that different from Stoops on the field, and Stoops has a much better record against the top tier (14-7 through 7 years, 17-10 overall). They're not that far off.
by The Doctor
from 2 days ago Great points, David. This from a Buckeye fan.
reply to comment by Greg
2 days ago Great artical, I have always wnated to see OU and OSU play because I had very Stoops and Tressel as the same type of coach. I want to go back tho the 2005 OSU Texas game though and to your point about Tressel's record agianst top tier opponets.
If you were to go back and look at the tape of the 2005 OSU Texas game I think that you would see up untill midway through the fourth quarter the Buckeyes had every opportunity to win that game. Part of the problem was that (just as was the case with last years BCS Championship game) his staff mishandled that game and made very poor decisions. This seems to be typical of his staff because to them thier biggest game of the year is Michigan and not many other teams. This philosiphy scares me death for when they play USC this season. Can it change? We shall see!
by Ryan
from 2 days ago Greg, OSU vs OU may very well happen in the next decade. OSU's athletic department is trying to work out a home-and-home versus the Sooners in 2016-2017. If Tress and Stoops are still head coaches by then, it'll be one helluva matchup.
by Paul
from 2 days ago Yeah, im pretty sure OSU and OU play sometime in the next decade. OSU also plays Vatech, Miami (FL) and Tennessee.
reply to comment by Quantumt
2 days ago the only thing these coaches have in common is that they choked in big games. Tressel's 2002 team won by a "phantom" interference call and 0-2 in the last 2 years, while Stoops is 0-4 in BCS bowl since then.
by Paul
from 2 days ago Phantom..........give.....me.....a.....break.
http://www.naso.org/PressReleases/st143.htm
Just look at this: validated by NCAA too.
reply to comment by R
2 days ago ... and they are both from Ohio
reply to comment by James
2 days ago Another interesting coaching analysis. I think the similarity of the coaches' records is fitting because of the teams' performances: winning the BCS title and then a few years later losing two consecutive championship games.
The main thing that floors me is the backlash against OSU thanks to their two losses, whereas Oklahoma had very little.
Anyway, despite what some people may think, this is as apt of a comparison as there is in college football.
reply to comment by t
2 days ago OU has 5 Big 12 Championships, not 3: 2000 v KSU; 2002 vs Colo; 2004 vs Colo; 2006 vs Nebraska; 2007 vs Mizzou & Chase "booger" daniels; however, all these numbers are really close. I had thought of the similarities, but its even creepier when you see them all side by side. Plus they both came from the same part of the country
by David
from 2 days ago I only looked at Stoops' first 7 years (through 2005), as Tressel has only been at Ohio State for 7 years. Hence, he has only three conference titles in the table since two of the five you listed were in '06 and '07.
reply to comment by Paul
2 days ago OSU has won the Big Ten 2 years in a row. PSU won in 2005 even though they called it a shared B10 Title, PSU won the H2H game that year and played in the Orange Bowl and finished with the #3 ranking. Otherwise good article.
by Paul
from 2 days ago technically it is a shared title as the b10 has no championshiop game or win/lose tie breaker...i remember that game vs Penn st. eerie to say the least; tamba hali destroying smith...made me cry
reply to comment by Justin
2 days ago I'll take Stoops. Both are great coaches, but I'll take Stoops and his defensive mind.
Plus, Tressel is way too stuck up for me. Give me a fiery coach over a boring one any day.
reply to comment by BabyTate
2 days ago Tressell and Stoops have as much in common as Urban Meyer and Phil Fulmer. They win a lot of games, that's it. There is no comparison here.
reply to comment by Lisa
2 days ago Wow...I had no idea how similar they were. This was a great read because David informed us all of some interesting facts, and let us all come up with our own conclusions. You always enlighten the masses, David. Thanks for another great read, and classy comments as well.
PS- how can anyone comment on an article w/o reading it? I am speechless.
by David
from 2 days ago Well, I try to give some conclusions (i.e. Tressel's big game reputation pre-Florida game may not have been that solid), but I attempt to do so in a respectful manner. I don't know any of these coaches I am talking about personally, so I try to stay away from anything that doesn't pertain to on-field matters.
Re: commenting on an article without reading it...
The vast majority of the comments on the BR articles I've had picked up by FoxSports not only came from people who didn't appear to read them, but who didn't even comment on the subject at hand. They were all pretty much just petty Big Ten/SEC squabbling. Then again, I hold the commenters around here to a higher standard than the random drive-by bomb throwers that tend to inhabit the comment sections of all the major sports sites.
reply to comment by Jason
2 days ago Another thing is they are both from Northeast Ohio (Tressel-Berea, Stoops-Ytown). Is it any coincidence that Les Miles is from Northeast Ohio (Cleveland), and Urban Meyer is as well (Ashtabula). Hopefully, the Buckeye state gets a little more credit for producing these great coaches.
by David
from 1 day ago Not to mention that Miami University (a.k.a. Miami of Ohio) is the "Cradle of Coaches." Many of the game's greats like Paul Brown, Woody Hayes, Ara Parseghian, and Bo Schembechler spent time there, and more recent coaches like Tressel, Joe Novak, Ron Zook, Randy Walker, John Harbaugh, the late Terry Hoeppner, and Sean Payton have all coached there in some capacity.
reply to comment by BabyTate
1 day ago Gee, you'd almost think there was a Hall of Fame facility in Ohio.
reply to comment by jim
1 day ago Baby Taint...why are you so defensive about this topic? You must be from Texas.
reply to comment by Ryan
1 day ago Liked the article David. It has been noticed by many, this Ohio State fan included, that Jim Tressel's perceived invincibility has started to chip. 2 big bashes in the marquee event seem to have that effect on one's profile. The only thing I will say about Tressel is if you throw out the 2 down years he's had (his first and his 4th seasons), he does lose to the best of the best. When you lose to a bunch of teams you aren't supposed to (Lloyd Carr, Larry Coker, Houston Nutt, i.e.) that's when you really get questioned. But Tressel and Stoops year in and year out have their teams in the Top 10 and if they lose, they only lose to another Top 25 team, albeit horribly lose. (I'll accidentally forget about Stoops's mishap with Colorado last season)
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Jim Tressel's Record at Ohio State and His Similarity to Bob Stoops
David Wunderlich puts Jim Tressel's record at Ohio State under the microscope and lists its striking similarities to Bob Stoops' record at Oklahoma.
by David Wunderlich (Columnist)
36 comments 966 reads
July 06, 2008
Share this StoryEmail to a friend Print this article Send to Facebook Send to Digg Yahoo! BuzzCurrently UnEdited
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He has accumulated many nicknames over the years, from the Senator to CheatyPants McSweaterVest. He has also accumulated many wins, conference titles, a national title, and two spectacular flameouts in the past two BCS title games.
He is Jim Tressel, head coach of Ohio State and one of the more controversial figures in college football.
He would seem an unlikely candidate for controversy. He wins a lot but seldom via embarrassing blowouts. He speaks out in public only on rare occasions. He projects an image of a conservative, almost introverted college professor who is more likely to give a lecture on economics than a pregame motivational speech.
Then again, Tressel earned the second nickname listed above thanks to a string of off the field incidents ranging from player arrests to guys taking money from boosters.
They date back to his time at Youngstown State, and a New York Times article from the week before his game against Florida outlines the major stories if you're interested.
One thing that can't be denied, however, is that the man wins a lot of games. Through seven seasons in Columbus, he has won a national title, four conference titles, and appeared in five BCS bowl games.
He is one of only two coaches, along with Bob Stoops, to have made three BCS championship games. However, they are also the only two coaches to have lost two of them in a row.
Ohio State has won the Big Ten three years in a row, and it appears to have the best team going into 2008. That means Tressel is threatening to turn the Big Ten into what Pete Carroll has made the Pac-10: one team on top and everyone else playing for second place.
Here is Tressel's record broken down by site. This table does not include games against I-AA teams.
Jim Tressel at Ohio State Site Wins Losses Totals
Home 44 5 49
Away 24 8 32
Bowls 4 3 7
Totals 72 16 88
Overall, that's pretty impressive. That's a winning percentage of .818, which is about as good as anyone can do over an extended period of time.
The bowl record obviously could use some work, but I'll get into more of that later. The home record isn't quite as good as I had expected, but two of those five losses came in Tressel's first year.
Here is Tressel's record broken down by site. As always, first tier opponents are teams that had a winning percentage of .750 or better, second tier were .500 to .749, third tier opponents were .250 to .499, and fourth tier opponents were .249 and below.
Jim Tressel at Ohio State Tier Wins Losses Pct. Avg. Scored Avg. Allowed
First 9 9 .500 23 24
Second 31 5 .861 28 15
Third 28 2 .933 33 13
Fourth 4 0 1.000 31 6
The obvious: he wins a lot of games, beats the teams he should beat, but doesn't win by gaudy scores. This much we knew. The two losses to third tier teams, if you were wondering, were to five-win teams in his first year on the job.
That said, the 9-9 record against the top tier surprised me.
Prior to the last two BCS title games, Tressel had a reputation for being one of the best big game coaches in America. He could be counted on to win the big games, and he was one of the few in the country trusted to do so. Yet toss out those two championship game fiascoes, and he's a good but not great 9-7 against that top tier.
One of those seven other losses was to Vince Young in 2005, which is entirely understandable. Two more were to Illinois' miracle 2001 squad and Lou Holtz's one good South Carolina team in Tressel's first year, which are also understandable.
He also had losses to Joe Paterno's last great Penn State team (the 11-1 team in 2005), Kirk Ferentz's last great Iowa team (his 10-2 team in 2004), and the sole loss to Michigan in 2003 (which can't be complained about given the outcome of every other Michigan game). Overall, it's hard to blame him for those.
However, guys don't get reputations for being great coaches on the biggest stages based on understandable losses. I have to conclude that his big game rep was built on beating Michigan year in and year out and his 4-1 bowl record through the 2005 season.
Perhaps that should be enough to qualify a coach for that status, but maybe we shouldn't have been so surprised to see the losses to Florida and LSU. Given that LSU was almost certainly the better team from the start of 2007 and the overwhelming talent on Florida's defense, those losses were also understandable (though the final scores were not).
I mentioned Bob Stoops earlier, and now I want to bring him up again. He and Tressel have many similarities, most notably their winning the national title in their second years and then going on to lose two BCS title games in a row. I wanted to see, though, just how similar their records are.
So, here are the records of Stoops in his first seven seasons and Tressel side by side.
Stoops and Tressel, through 7 Seasons Stoops Tressel
Record 74-16 72-16
Bowl Record 4-3 4-3
BCSCG Record 1-2 1-2
vs. 1st Tier 14-7 9-9
vs. 2nd Tier 27-7 31-5
vs. 3rd Tier 26-2 28-2
vs. 4th Tier 7-0 4-0
Nat. Titles 1 1
Conf. Titles 3 4
vs. Rival 5-2 6-1
Heismans 1 (J. White) 1 (T. Smith)
BCSCG means BCS Championship Game. For Stoops, "Rival" means Texas; for Tressel, "Rival" means Michigan.
Their records aren't just similar, they're eerily close. Just about as close as Mack Brown and Phil Fulmer through 10 years.
Stoops was better against the top tier, but Tressel was a little better against the second. Otherwise, everything is basically the same down to getting blown out in the national title game with their Heisman-winning quarterbacks.
It gets even spookier when you line up the year-by-year records of each from best to worst:
Records by Year Stoops Tressel
13-0 14-0
12-1 12-1
12-2 11-2
12-2 11-2
11-2 10-2
8-4 8-4
7-5 7-5
It can't get any closer than that, can it? Have a look at the year-by-year records for Oklahoma and Ohio State if you want to reconcile the differences in number of games for each season, though most have to do with Oklahoma playing in the Big 12 title game.
This second section was mainly for fun, since there's not a lot that can be gleaned from it. It's a remarkable coincidence that these two coaches in different conferences in different time periods with fairly different philosophies can do almost the exact same thing over such a long period of time.
It just goes to show that football success takes all types, and that even high levels of success can be matched elsewhere.
Will Tressel go into as big a bowl tailspin as Stoops did? It's just one of the many interesting subplots that will make the 2008 college football season great.
Want to write for Bleacher Report? We are a community of fans who write about sports. And we're growing. Click here to learn more. comments (36) write a comment »write a new comment
reply to comment by bowlbasaur
2 days ago Good comparison, but it is a common trend among big name coaches at football factories like OU and OSU. At this time it looks like USC will avoid it, but winning a NC early and then struggling to maintain a top level happens to lots of teams... Michigan with Carr, Tennessee with Fulmer-> Florida with Meyer? Va Tech with Beamer?
by David
from 2 days ago Not sure what you mean by "struggling to maintain a top level" when OU has just one season since 2000 where it hasn't won 11 games and OSU has been to the national title game two years in a row. I'd call both of those a top level any day of the week.
VT has won 10 games all but two seasons since 2000, so I'd call that a top level too. Meyer hasn't been at Florida long enough to even set a baseline for judging his record.
by bowlbasaur
from 2 days ago To tell the truth I didn't even read the article but guessed what it said. By maintain a top level I mean winning MNCs, obviously that is too much to expect from a coach but lots of fanbases do anyways, esp in the BCS eras. They should be happy about beating the rival and winning the conference, and worry much less about bowl performance than they do. That said losing a bowl game, especially getting blown out like Stoops and Tressell have been lately, does put a negative feeling on a great overall season.
by David
from 2 days ago Thanks, but next time please at least look at the tables or read a couple paragraphs before commenting. Nowhere do I bash Tressel or Stoops for losing national title games. It should be obvious to anyone that there's no shame in making the BCS title game on a regular basis.
by Paul
from 2 days ago Va Tech has maintained a high level but they have not won the national title as you suggested. They lost the Sugar Bowl to Florida State during the 1999 season.
by David
from 2 days ago I should have clarified, Paul. VT has maintained a top level despite not winning a national title. I don't think you have to win it all to be considered a top program, though doing so does separate you from the pack.
reply to comment by Tim
2 days ago I did read the article (hooray for me!). Awesome stuff, David.
I specifically remember all the "Nobody can beat Tressel in a big game" talk before the FL slaughter. This seems to show otherwise.
reply to comment by The Doctor
2 days ago Die-hard OSU fan and I am estatic on the continued high-level of sucess that TSV (The Sweater Vest) has brought back to the program the .500 record versus the creme de la creme is disconcerting.
I believe TSV was only 2-2 or close to that in D-IAA Championship games if I remember correctly.
That being said, I agree there is no shame in being in a BCS Bowl every year and a contender for the NC Game. It's better than where they were in the 80's and early 90's.
Great breakdown.
by David
from 2 days ago I looked it up, and Tressel was 4-2 in I-AA title games.
Being .500 against the top tier really isn't too big a worry in Tressel's case. As I mentioned, it's extremely difficult to do better than his .818 winning percentage over many seasons. If you're losing to the top tier, that means you're not losing to the lower tiers.
I have to believe that falling to that 11-1 Penn State team or the 10-2 Iowa team is better than losing to the Michigan States and Northwesterns of the world, even if you do beat those top teams.
by The Doctor
from 2 days ago Yeah, I looked it up right after and it is 4-2.
True on your last point, but a loss is still a loss.
Thanks.
reply to comment by Tyler
2 days ago Very interesting stuff. I'm a Buckeye fan myself, and I never realized the similarities between the two, and as much as I hate to say it, you are correct. Makes you wonder if this is a pattern you can predict with ALL instantly successful coaches at BCS schools...
by David
from 2 days ago It's definitely something to keep track of over the next few seasons. We'll see if Urban Meyer and Les Miles can sustain success the way Stoops and Tressel have.
reply to comment by Ryan
2 days ago Well, Tressel did win with Cooper's recruits in 2002...
reply to comment by BabyTate
2 days ago Tressel is total class and a caring fine fellow. Stoops demonstrates on camera a mean spirited personality and is far too harsh on undeserving reporters and well wishers. There is nothing about this Stoops's personality that compares to the gentlemanly Jim Tressel.
You may compare some kind of athletic competition record between the two but, that doesn't extend to comparing the two men as individuals.
Recordwise, Stoops last went to a BCS title game 4 years ago. All of his success in getting into the BCS title game was in the early part of this decade. Tressel has been in the last two title games played and won a BCS title in the early part of the decade. Stoops isn't even the last coach in his conference to be in or win a BCS title game, Mack Brown is. Stoops is best known for having his team surrender on the field to Sou Cal in the '04 season title game 55-19, being tricked by the 1940s Statue of Liberty play by mid-major Boise St. in 2006 season Bowls, losing to a deflated West Va. team playing in its 1st game under a new coach in 2007 season Bowls, and "preparing" his team for the biggest upset loss in any conference title championship game when his #1 Sooners were slaughtered by unherladed Kansas State 35-7 in 2003.
There is really nothing about Stoops that should be compared to Jim Tressel.
by David
from 2 days ago You may note upon further inspection that the comparison between the two was all about the numbers that make up their records and had nothing to do with anything else.
It also could be said that Florida called off the dogs in the 2007 BCS title game (and if you go back and watch it, they did) and could have won by more than 41-14. Also, West Virginia's players last bowl season weren't deflated, but were inspired to show the world it didn't need Rich Rodriguez and how much they love Bill Stewart. Not everything is how you have presented it.
Tressel isn't that different from Stoops on the field, and Stoops has a much better record against the top tier (14-7 through 7 years, 17-10 overall). They're not that far off.
by The Doctor
from 2 days ago Great points, David. This from a Buckeye fan.
reply to comment by Greg
2 days ago Great artical, I have always wnated to see OU and OSU play because I had very Stoops and Tressel as the same type of coach. I want to go back tho the 2005 OSU Texas game though and to your point about Tressel's record agianst top tier opponets.
If you were to go back and look at the tape of the 2005 OSU Texas game I think that you would see up untill midway through the fourth quarter the Buckeyes had every opportunity to win that game. Part of the problem was that (just as was the case with last years BCS Championship game) his staff mishandled that game and made very poor decisions. This seems to be typical of his staff because to them thier biggest game of the year is Michigan and not many other teams. This philosiphy scares me death for when they play USC this season. Can it change? We shall see!
by Ryan
from 2 days ago Greg, OSU vs OU may very well happen in the next decade. OSU's athletic department is trying to work out a home-and-home versus the Sooners in 2016-2017. If Tress and Stoops are still head coaches by then, it'll be one helluva matchup.
by Paul
from 2 days ago Yeah, im pretty sure OSU and OU play sometime in the next decade. OSU also plays Vatech, Miami (FL) and Tennessee.
reply to comment by Quantumt
2 days ago the only thing these coaches have in common is that they choked in big games. Tressel's 2002 team won by a "phantom" interference call and 0-2 in the last 2 years, while Stoops is 0-4 in BCS bowl since then.
by Paul
from 2 days ago Phantom..........give.....me.....a.....break.
http://www.naso.org/PressReleases/st143.htm
Just look at this: validated by NCAA too.
reply to comment by R
2 days ago ... and they are both from Ohio
reply to comment by James
2 days ago Another interesting coaching analysis. I think the similarity of the coaches' records is fitting because of the teams' performances: winning the BCS title and then a few years later losing two consecutive championship games.
The main thing that floors me is the backlash against OSU thanks to their two losses, whereas Oklahoma had very little.
Anyway, despite what some people may think, this is as apt of a comparison as there is in college football.
reply to comment by t
2 days ago OU has 5 Big 12 Championships, not 3: 2000 v KSU; 2002 vs Colo; 2004 vs Colo; 2006 vs Nebraska; 2007 vs Mizzou & Chase "booger" daniels; however, all these numbers are really close. I had thought of the similarities, but its even creepier when you see them all side by side. Plus they both came from the same part of the country
by David
from 2 days ago I only looked at Stoops' first 7 years (through 2005), as Tressel has only been at Ohio State for 7 years. Hence, he has only three conference titles in the table since two of the five you listed were in '06 and '07.
reply to comment by Paul
2 days ago OSU has won the Big Ten 2 years in a row. PSU won in 2005 even though they called it a shared B10 Title, PSU won the H2H game that year and played in the Orange Bowl and finished with the #3 ranking. Otherwise good article.
by Paul
from 2 days ago technically it is a shared title as the b10 has no championshiop game or win/lose tie breaker...i remember that game vs Penn st. eerie to say the least; tamba hali destroying smith...made me cry
reply to comment by Justin
2 days ago I'll take Stoops. Both are great coaches, but I'll take Stoops and his defensive mind.
Plus, Tressel is way too stuck up for me. Give me a fiery coach over a boring one any day.
reply to comment by BabyTate
2 days ago Tressell and Stoops have as much in common as Urban Meyer and Phil Fulmer. They win a lot of games, that's it. There is no comparison here.
reply to comment by Lisa
2 days ago Wow...I had no idea how similar they were. This was a great read because David informed us all of some interesting facts, and let us all come up with our own conclusions. You always enlighten the masses, David. Thanks for another great read, and classy comments as well.
PS- how can anyone comment on an article w/o reading it? I am speechless.
by David
from 2 days ago Well, I try to give some conclusions (i.e. Tressel's big game reputation pre-Florida game may not have been that solid), but I attempt to do so in a respectful manner. I don't know any of these coaches I am talking about personally, so I try to stay away from anything that doesn't pertain to on-field matters.
Re: commenting on an article without reading it...
The vast majority of the comments on the BR articles I've had picked up by FoxSports not only came from people who didn't appear to read them, but who didn't even comment on the subject at hand. They were all pretty much just petty Big Ten/SEC squabbling. Then again, I hold the commenters around here to a higher standard than the random drive-by bomb throwers that tend to inhabit the comment sections of all the major sports sites.
reply to comment by Jason
2 days ago Another thing is they are both from Northeast Ohio (Tressel-Berea, Stoops-Ytown). Is it any coincidence that Les Miles is from Northeast Ohio (Cleveland), and Urban Meyer is as well (Ashtabula). Hopefully, the Buckeye state gets a little more credit for producing these great coaches.
by David
from 1 day ago Not to mention that Miami University (a.k.a. Miami of Ohio) is the "Cradle of Coaches." Many of the game's greats like Paul Brown, Woody Hayes, Ara Parseghian, and Bo Schembechler spent time there, and more recent coaches like Tressel, Joe Novak, Ron Zook, Randy Walker, John Harbaugh, the late Terry Hoeppner, and Sean Payton have all coached there in some capacity.
reply to comment by BabyTate
1 day ago Gee, you'd almost think there was a Hall of Fame facility in Ohio.
reply to comment by jim
1 day ago Baby Taint...why are you so defensive about this topic? You must be from Texas.
reply to comment by Ryan
1 day ago Liked the article David. It has been noticed by many, this Ohio State fan included, that Jim Tressel's perceived invincibility has started to chip. 2 big bashes in the marquee event seem to have that effect on one's profile. The only thing I will say about Tressel is if you throw out the 2 down years he's had (his first and his 4th seasons), he does lose to the best of the best. When you lose to a bunch of teams you aren't supposed to (Lloyd Carr, Larry Coker, Houston Nutt, i.e.) that's when you really get questioned. But Tressel and Stoops year in and year out have their teams in the Top 10 and if they lose, they only lose to another Top 25 team, albeit horribly lose. (I'll accidentally forget about Stoops's mishap with Colorado last season)
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Here is a little better edited version of an interesting compariason between Bob and Jiim Tressel...Maybe they can settle everything in the BCS title game.....
Jim Tressel's Record at Ohio State and His Similarity to Bob Stoops
David Wunderlich puts Jim Tressel's record at Ohio State under the microscope and lists its
This article has not been edited yet.
He has accumulated many nicknames over the years, from the Senator to CheatyPants McSweaterVest. He has also accumulated many wins, conference titles, a national title, and two spectacular flameouts in the past two BCS title games.
He is Jim Tressel, head coach of Ohio State and one of the more controversial figures in college football.
He would seem an unlikely candidate for controversy. He wins a lot but seldom via embarrassing blowouts. He speaks out in public only on rare occasions. He projects an image of a conservative, almost introverted college professor who is more likely to give a lecture on economics than a pregame motivational speech.
Then again, Tressel earned the second nickname listed above thanks to a string of off the field incidents ranging from player arrests to guys taking money from boosters.
They date back to his time at Youngstown State, and a New York Times article from the week before his game against Florida outlines the major stories if you're interested.
One thing that can't be denied, however, is that the man wins a lot of games. Through seven seasons in Columbus, he has won a national title, four conference titles, and appeared in five BCS bowl games.
He is one of only two coaches, along with Bob Stoops, to have made three BCS championship games. However, they are also the only two coaches to have lost two of them in a row.
Ohio State has won the Big Ten three years in a row, and it appears to have the best team going into 2008. That means Tressel is threatening to turn the Big Ten into what Pete Carroll has made the Pac-10: one team on top and everyone else playing for second place.
Here is Tressel's record broken down by site. This table does not include games against I-AA teams.
Jim Tressel at Ohio State Site Wins Losses Totals
Home 44 5 49
Away 24 8 32
Bowls 4 3 7
Totals 72 16 88
Overall, that's pretty impressive. That's a winning percentage of .818, which is about as good as anyone can do over an extended period of time.
The bowl record obviously could use some work, but I'll get into more of that later. The home record isn't quite as good as I had expected, but two of those five losses came in Tressel's first year.
Here is Tressel's record broken down by site. As always, first tier opponents are teams that had a winning percentage of .750 or better, second tier were .500 to .749, third tier opponents were .250 to .499, and fourth tier opponents were .249 and below.
Jim Tressel at Ohio State Tier Wins Losses Pct. Avg. Scored Avg. Allowed
First 9 9 .500 23 24
Second 31 5 .861 28 15
Third 28 2 .933 33 13
Fourth 4 0 1.000 31 6
The obvious: he wins a lot of games, beats the teams he should beat, but doesn't win by gaudy scores. This much we knew. The two losses to third tier teams, if you were wondering, were to five-win teams in his first year on the job.
That said, the 9-9 record against the top tier surprised me.
Prior to the last two BCS title games, Tressel had a reputation for being one of the best big game coaches in America. He could be counted on to win the big games, and he was one of the few in the country trusted to do so. Yet toss out those two championship game fiascoes, and he's a good but not great 9-7 against that top tier.
One of those seven other losses was to Vince Young in 2005, which is entirely understandable. Two more were to Illinois' miracle 2001 squad and Lou Holtz's one good South Carolina team in Tressel's first year, which are also understandable.
He also had losses to Joe Paterno's last great Penn State team (the 11-1 team in 2005), Kirk Ferentz's last great Iowa team (his 10-2 team in 2004), and the sole loss to Michigan in 2003 (which can't be complained about given the outcome of every other Michigan game). Overall, it's hard to blame him for those.
However, guys don't get reputations for being great coaches on the biggest stages based on understandable losses. I have to conclude that his big game rep was built on beating Michigan year in and year out and his 4-1 bowl record through the 2005 season.
Perhaps that should be enough to qualify a coach for that status, but maybe we shouldn't have been so surprised to see the losses to Florida and LSU. Given that LSU was almost certainly the better team from the start of 2007 and the overwhelming talent on Florida's defense, those losses were also understandable (though the final scores were not).
I mentioned Bob Stoops earlier, and now I want to bring him up again. He and Tressel have many similarities, most notably their winning the national title in their second years and then going on to lose two BCS title games in a row. I wanted to see, though, just how similar their records are.
So, here are the records of Stoops in his first seven seasons and Tressel side by side.
Stoops and Tressel, through 7 Seasons Stoops Tressel
Record 74-16 72-16
Bowl Record 4-3 4-3
BCSCG Record 1-2 1-2
vs. 1st Tier 14-7 9-9
vs. 2nd Tier 27-7 31-5
vs. 3rd Tier 26-2 28-2
vs. 4th Tier 7-0 4-0
Nat. Titles 1 1
Conf. Titles 3 4
vs. Rival 5-2 6-1
Heismans 1 (J. White) 1 (T. Smith)
BCSCG means BCS Championship Game. For Stoops, "Rival" means Texas; for Tressel, "Rival" means Michigan.
Their records aren't just similar, they're eerily close. Just about as close as Mack Brown and Phil Fulmer through 10 years.
Stoops was better against the top tier, but Tressel was a little better against the second. Otherwise, everything is basically the same down to getting blown out in the national title game with their Heisman-winning quarterbacks.
It gets even spookier when you line up the year-by-year records of each from best to worst:
Records by Year Stoops Tressel
13-0 14-0
12-1 12-1
12-2 11-2
12-2 11-2
11-2 10-2
8-4 8-4
7-5 7-5
It can't get any closer than that, can it? Have a look at the year-by-year records for Oklahoma and Ohio State if you want to reconcile the differences in number of games for each season, though most have to do with Oklahoma playing in the Big 12 title game.
This second section was mainly for fun, since there's not a lot that can be gleaned from it. It's a remarkable coincidence that these two coaches in different conferences in different time periods with fairly different philosophies can do almost the exact same thing over such a long period of time.
It just goes to show that football success takes all types, and that even high levels of success can be matched elsewhere.
Will Tressel go into as big a bowl tailspin as Stoops did? It's just one of the many interesting subplots that will make the 2008 college football season great.
Jim Tressel's Record at Ohio State and His Similarity to Bob Stoops
David Wunderlich puts Jim Tressel's record at Ohio State under the microscope and lists its
This article has not been edited yet.
He has accumulated many nicknames over the years, from the Senator to CheatyPants McSweaterVest. He has also accumulated many wins, conference titles, a national title, and two spectacular flameouts in the past two BCS title games.
He is Jim Tressel, head coach of Ohio State and one of the more controversial figures in college football.
He would seem an unlikely candidate for controversy. He wins a lot but seldom via embarrassing blowouts. He speaks out in public only on rare occasions. He projects an image of a conservative, almost introverted college professor who is more likely to give a lecture on economics than a pregame motivational speech.
Then again, Tressel earned the second nickname listed above thanks to a string of off the field incidents ranging from player arrests to guys taking money from boosters.
They date back to his time at Youngstown State, and a New York Times article from the week before his game against Florida outlines the major stories if you're interested.
One thing that can't be denied, however, is that the man wins a lot of games. Through seven seasons in Columbus, he has won a national title, four conference titles, and appeared in five BCS bowl games.
He is one of only two coaches, along with Bob Stoops, to have made three BCS championship games. However, they are also the only two coaches to have lost two of them in a row.
Ohio State has won the Big Ten three years in a row, and it appears to have the best team going into 2008. That means Tressel is threatening to turn the Big Ten into what Pete Carroll has made the Pac-10: one team on top and everyone else playing for second place.
Here is Tressel's record broken down by site. This table does not include games against I-AA teams.
Jim Tressel at Ohio State Site Wins Losses Totals
Home 44 5 49
Away 24 8 32
Bowls 4 3 7
Totals 72 16 88
Overall, that's pretty impressive. That's a winning percentage of .818, which is about as good as anyone can do over an extended period of time.
The bowl record obviously could use some work, but I'll get into more of that later. The home record isn't quite as good as I had expected, but two of those five losses came in Tressel's first year.
Here is Tressel's record broken down by site. As always, first tier opponents are teams that had a winning percentage of .750 or better, second tier were .500 to .749, third tier opponents were .250 to .499, and fourth tier opponents were .249 and below.
Jim Tressel at Ohio State Tier Wins Losses Pct. Avg. Scored Avg. Allowed
First 9 9 .500 23 24
Second 31 5 .861 28 15
Third 28 2 .933 33 13
Fourth 4 0 1.000 31 6
The obvious: he wins a lot of games, beats the teams he should beat, but doesn't win by gaudy scores. This much we knew. The two losses to third tier teams, if you were wondering, were to five-win teams in his first year on the job.
That said, the 9-9 record against the top tier surprised me.
Prior to the last two BCS title games, Tressel had a reputation for being one of the best big game coaches in America. He could be counted on to win the big games, and he was one of the few in the country trusted to do so. Yet toss out those two championship game fiascoes, and he's a good but not great 9-7 against that top tier.
One of those seven other losses was to Vince Young in 2005, which is entirely understandable. Two more were to Illinois' miracle 2001 squad and Lou Holtz's one good South Carolina team in Tressel's first year, which are also understandable.
He also had losses to Joe Paterno's last great Penn State team (the 11-1 team in 2005), Kirk Ferentz's last great Iowa team (his 10-2 team in 2004), and the sole loss to Michigan in 2003 (which can't be complained about given the outcome of every other Michigan game). Overall, it's hard to blame him for those.
However, guys don't get reputations for being great coaches on the biggest stages based on understandable losses. I have to conclude that his big game rep was built on beating Michigan year in and year out and his 4-1 bowl record through the 2005 season.
Perhaps that should be enough to qualify a coach for that status, but maybe we shouldn't have been so surprised to see the losses to Florida and LSU. Given that LSU was almost certainly the better team from the start of 2007 and the overwhelming talent on Florida's defense, those losses were also understandable (though the final scores were not).
I mentioned Bob Stoops earlier, and now I want to bring him up again. He and Tressel have many similarities, most notably their winning the national title in their second years and then going on to lose two BCS title games in a row. I wanted to see, though, just how similar their records are.
So, here are the records of Stoops in his first seven seasons and Tressel side by side.
Stoops and Tressel, through 7 Seasons Stoops Tressel
Record 74-16 72-16
Bowl Record 4-3 4-3
BCSCG Record 1-2 1-2
vs. 1st Tier 14-7 9-9
vs. 2nd Tier 27-7 31-5
vs. 3rd Tier 26-2 28-2
vs. 4th Tier 7-0 4-0
Nat. Titles 1 1
Conf. Titles 3 4
vs. Rival 5-2 6-1
Heismans 1 (J. White) 1 (T. Smith)
BCSCG means BCS Championship Game. For Stoops, "Rival" means Texas; for Tressel, "Rival" means Michigan.
Their records aren't just similar, they're eerily close. Just about as close as Mack Brown and Phil Fulmer through 10 years.
Stoops was better against the top tier, but Tressel was a little better against the second. Otherwise, everything is basically the same down to getting blown out in the national title game with their Heisman-winning quarterbacks.
It gets even spookier when you line up the year-by-year records of each from best to worst:
Records by Year Stoops Tressel
13-0 14-0
12-1 12-1
12-2 11-2
12-2 11-2
11-2 10-2
8-4 8-4
7-5 7-5
It can't get any closer than that, can it? Have a look at the year-by-year records for Oklahoma and Ohio State if you want to reconcile the differences in number of games for each season, though most have to do with Oklahoma playing in the Big 12 title game.
This second section was mainly for fun, since there's not a lot that can be gleaned from it. It's a remarkable coincidence that these two coaches in different conferences in different time periods with fairly different philosophies can do almost the exact same thing over such a long period of time.
It just goes to show that football success takes all types, and that even high levels of success can be matched elsewhere.
Will Tressel go into as big a bowl tailspin as Stoops did? It's just one of the many interesting subplots that will make the 2008 college football season great.
