We need a complete overhaul of the tax code.

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TheRightWing

TheRightWing

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Flattening Time
We need a complete overhaul of the tax code.

By Bruce Bartlett

President Bush says he wants to reform the tax system and has appointed a tax-reform commission that will issue a report in September. It was originally supposed to have reported by July 31, but the White House asked the commission to delay its report so that it would not interfere with the Social Security-reform effort, which needs a few more months before it can be declared legally dead.

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<SCRIPT language=JavaScript1.1 src="http://oasc03012.247realmedia.com/RealMedia/ads/adstream_jx.ads/www.nationalreview.com/@Middle1"></SCRIPT> <SCRIPT language=JavaScript> <!--_version=10; //--> </SCRIPT><SCRIPT language=JavaScript1.1> <!--_version=11; // --> </SCRIPT><SCRIPT language=JavaScript><!--if (navigator.appVersion.indexOf('MSIE 3') != -1){document.write('<IFRAME WIDTH=300 HEIGHT=250 MARGINWIDTH=0 MARGINHEIGHT=0 HSPACE=0 VSPACE=0 FRAMEBORDER=0 SCROLLING=no BORDERCOLOR="#000000" SRC="http://oasc03012.247realmedia.com/RealMedia/ads/adstream_sx.cgi/www.nationalreview.com/@Middle1"></iframe>');} else if (_version < 11) {document.write (' ');}// --></SCRIPT> </TD><TD width=3> </TD></TR></TBODY></TABLE>I've long thought that the White House had made a very serious error in attempting to do both Social Security reform and tax reform at the same time. The issues were too big and it would be lucky if it could do one or the other. Trying to do both ran the risk of accomplishing neither. The delay in the tax-reform report shows that the White House has finally started to figure this out.

We still don't know what the commission will recommend. The assumption has been that it would endorse one or more comprehensive reform options, such as the flat tax or national retail-sales tax. However, indications now are that the commission's report may be more targeted and less comprehensive.

The other week, the tax commission's cochairmen, former senators Connie Mack (R., Fla.) and John Breaux (D., La.), said that abolition of the Alternative Minimum Tax would definitely be one recommendation sent to the Treasury department. (Technically, the commission reports to the secretary of the Treasury, who will then decide what recommendations to forward to the president.)

The AMT unquestionably is a very bad part of the tax system and ought to be abolished. But by making this isolated recommendation, it suggests that the commission's report will be less comprehensive than previously thought. After all, if the commission were to recommend, say, a flat-tax system, then there would be no need to make abolition of the AMT a separate recommendation. It would be abolished automatically.

Therefore, I think we may be more likely to get a laundry list of specific recommendations for improving the tax system than a master plan for complete overhaul. The problem with this is that there are any number of reports that have already detailed specific failings of the tax system from the point of view of fairness, efficiency and administrability. They are all gathering dust on library shelves.

Secondly, trying to do tax reform this way means that the commission must necessarily come up with a list of tax increases to pay for the reforms. The commission is under a mandate to makes its recommendations "revenue-neutral." This means that the package must raise the same revenue as currently projected by the current tax system-no more, no less.

It is certain, therefore, that the vast bulk of the public attention will be on the revenue raisers. For example, people are already assuming that the AMT repeal will be paid for by abolishing the deduction for state and local taxes. Naturally, this has high-tax states like New York and California up in arms. In 1986, then-New York Governor Mario Cuomo, a Democrat, virtually killed this idea single-handedly. This time it could be California Governor Arnold Schwarzenegger, a Republican.

The high tax states like the federal deduction because it lowers their tax burden by the amount of one's federal tax bracket. If one itemizes and is in the 33-percent federal tax bracket, then this is like getting a one-third discount on your state and local taxes. Elimination of the deduction, therefore, would constitute a significant tax increase for many people even if they no longer have to pay the AMT.

In my opinion, these kinds of trade-offs are politically impossible. People will fight much harder to keep a current tax benefit than those who would benefit from a new one will fight for that. Consequently, the only way you can even hope to eliminate "sacred cow" deductions like that for state and local taxes is in a complete overhaul of the tax code. Trying to do it incrementally, as it appears the tax commission is suggesting, is simply doomed to failure.

Unfortunately, President Bush has never articulated a vision of tax reform, which explains why he is supporting a long list of new tax gimmicks — I mean incentives — for energy production and conservation, none of which have any place in a properly designed tax system, from either a liberal or conservative point of view. They just clutter up the tax code and make reform all the more difficult, because they create new constituencies in support of the status quo.

In his new book, Flat Tax Revolution, magazine publisher Steve Forbes again explains the virtues of fundamental tax reform. I hope someone at the tax commission is reading it.
 
Redneckman

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I see Neil Boortz and a congressman from Oklahoma I believe have written a book about a national sales tax system, repealing all income taxes, and payroll tax withholdings. I think it's a great idea.
 

D2bets

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We need an overhaul, but I don't believe we should scrap the income tax system for a national sales tax.
 
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I hope someone at the tax commission is reading it...<!-- / message -->

...reading it and having a really good laff.
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Redneckman

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Of course you wouldn't support it, because if something like that would become the law of your land, you'd be out on your ass.
 
JudgeWapner

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Tax code needs to be changed and quick.
 
go2guy

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D2bets said:
We need an overhaul, but I don't believe we should scrap the income tax system for a national sales tax.

We do need an overhaul and the national sales tax does sound attractive but it'll never happen. Too many loopholes for citizens to exploit if that were to come.
 
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bushman
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Redneckman said:
Of course you wouldn't support it, because if something like that would become the law of your land, you'd be out on your ass.

I would personally benefit hugely, actually.
And I work for myself btw.
(I have found that I'm allergic to employers.)

A sales tax would be a financial disaster, but it's interesting to discuss.

So would essentials like foodstuffs, water, heat, light, transport etc be the most heavily taxed?

Since they would bring in the most reliable income stream for the Government it would be logical to tax them the most heavily.

hark! is that the squeaking of little cogs turning in ones head that I hear.
bien.gif
 
Redneckman

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You're the one that said you were reading the book.
 
Coldweather

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Why should most good decent Republicans, like myself, pay over half our income to support stupid liberal give away programs, only to support the Dem.votes. This is wrong and bad! Needs to stop!

:dancefool :dancefool :dancefool :dancefool :dancefool :dancefool


 

D2bets

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Coldweather said:
Why should most good decent Republicans, like myself, pay over half our income to support stupid liberal give away programs, only to support the Dem.votes. This is wrong and bad! Needs to stop!

:dancefool :dancefool :dancefool :dancefool :dancefool :dancefool



If you're paying over half your income you need a better accountant.
 
SamOdom

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Off the top of my pointy head :toast: no Fed. tax on <30K single / 50K married

everyone over that has a flat tax, not sure what the % should be but it could easily be figured out. I say around 20-25%
 
edub69

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That's a pretty good idea Sam. Would you treat income from capital gains the same as income earned from wages?
 
SamOdom

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edub69 said:
That's a pretty good idea Sam. Would you treat income from capital gains the same as income earned from wages?

The State should NOT tax the same 'money' twice.
 

nimue77

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Will the right wingers also listen to the cato institute on things like the disastrous prohibition of drugs? The republican asswipes love to look like a libertarian when it comes to taxes, but when it comes to freedom over your own body - then forget it.



The Right Wing said:
Flattening Time
We need a complete overhaul of the tax code.

By Bruce Bartlett

President Bush says he wants to reform the tax system and has appointed a tax-reform commission that will issue a report in September. It was originally supposed to have reported by July 31, but the White House asked the commission to delay its report so that it would not interfere with the Social Security-reform effort, which needs a few more months before it can be declared legally dead.

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</TD><TD width=3></TD></TR></TBODY></TABLE>I've long thought that the White House had made a very serious error in attempting to do both Social Security reform and tax reform at the same time. The issues were too big and it would be lucky if it could do one or the other. Trying to do both ran the risk of accomplishing neither. The delay in the tax-reform report shows that the White House has finally started to figure this out.

We still don't know what the commission will recommend. The assumption has been that it would endorse one or more comprehensive reform options, such as the flat tax or national retail-sales tax. However, indications now are that the commission's report may be more targeted and less comprehensive.

The other week, the tax commission's cochairmen, former senators Connie Mack (R., Fla.) and John Breaux (D., La.), said that abolition of the Alternative Minimum Tax would definitely be one recommendation sent to the Treasury department. (Technically, the commission reports to the secretary of the Treasury, who will then decide what recommendations to forward to the president.)

The AMT unquestionably is a very bad part of the tax system and ought to be abolished. But by making this isolated recommendation, it suggests that the commission's report will be less comprehensive than previously thought. After all, if the commission were to recommend, say, a flat-tax system, then there would be no need to make abolition of the AMT a separate recommendation. It would be abolished automatically.

Therefore, I think we may be more likely to get a laundry list of specific recommendations for improving the tax system than a master plan for complete overhaul. The problem with this is that there are any number of reports that have already detailed specific failings of the tax system from the point of view of fairness, efficiency and administrability. They are all gathering dust on library shelves.

Secondly, trying to do tax reform this way means that the commission must necessarily come up with a list of tax increases to pay for the reforms. The commission is under a mandate to makes its recommendations "revenue-neutral." This means that the package must raise the same revenue as currently projected by the current tax system-no more, no less.

It is certain, therefore, that the vast bulk of the public attention will be on the revenue raisers. For example, people are already assuming that the AMT repeal will be paid for by abolishing the deduction for state and local taxes. Naturally, this has high-tax states like New York and California up in arms. In 1986, then-New York Governor Mario Cuomo, a Democrat, virtually killed this idea single-handedly. This time it could be California Governor Arnold Schwarzenegger, a Republican.

The high tax states like the federal deduction because it lowers their tax burden by the amount of one's federal tax bracket. If one itemizes and is in the 33-percent federal tax bracket, then this is like getting a one-third discount on your state and local taxes. Elimination of the deduction, therefore, would constitute a significant tax increase for many people even if they no longer have to pay the AMT.

In my opinion, these kinds of trade-offs are politically impossible. People will fight much harder to keep a current tax benefit than those who would benefit from a new one will fight for that. Consequently, the only way you can even hope to eliminate "sacred cow" deductions like that for state and local taxes is in a complete overhaul of the tax code. Trying to do it incrementally, as it appears the tax commission is suggesting, is simply doomed to failure.

Unfortunately, President Bush has never articulated a vision of tax reform, which explains why he is supporting a long list of new tax gimmicks — I mean incentives — for energy production and conservation, none of which have any place in a properly designed tax system, from either a liberal or conservative point of view. They just clutter up the tax code and make reform all the more difficult, because they create new constituencies in support of the status quo.

In his new book, Flat Tax Revolution, magazine publisher Steve Forbes again explains the virtues of fundamental tax reform. I hope someone at the tax commission is reading it.
 
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bushman
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The same money wouldn't be taxed twice Sam, only the profit.

Sales taxes hit the poor the hardest, so Repugnicans should be heavily in favour of them.

Lifting the upper threshold tax rate on Social Security is the way to go in the US, it's capped at around $100k.
 

ronaldn

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Redneckman said:
I see Neil Boortz and a congressman from Oklahoma I believe have written a book about a national sales tax system, repealing all income taxes, and payroll tax withholdings. I think it's a great idea.

The books title is "The Fair Tax" and it seems like a great idea. Very innovative and the way it is done will not hurt the poor at all. Everyone should read it before saying it cant work. Will it be adopted? I doubt it. It makes too much sense.
 
Redneckman

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Exactly, ronaldn. The problem is Congress will lose the effectiveness of creating economic policy through the tax system. They won't let that happen. The tax system should be used to generate revenue, and that's all it should be used for.
 
Dawoofdaddy

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The Libertarian Party brings to the table a proposal to eliminate the IRS, but most Americans still believe we only have two options when voting. Demopublicans and Republicrats....America and Americans must have change!

For more information goto www.lp.org

:103631605
 
JDeuce

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There's no better way to kill the progress of a nation than by taxing it to death.

Someone tell me exactly why a no income tax, flat sales tax system would be such a disaster...or even unfair? It actually makes perfect sense. The 'rich' would still carry the largest tax burden because they're the ones most able to afford high ticket items. No poor person would be paying a five figure tax bill on a yacht...

Actually, the fairest tax system would be if everyone paid the exact same dollar amount. Isn't that the way our economy is structured now for goods and services? You don't charge a mailman $3.99 for a gallon of milk, but then turn around and charge Bill Gates $15,000 for that same gallon of milk simply because he can afford it (although that would be the wet dream of the Left). Yet we do just that when it comes to taxes...why?
 

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