Wanderlei “The Axe Murderer” Silva (-120) vs. Quinton “Rampage” Jackson (-110)

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Cant say I agree here. Almost popped Rampage at +110 saturday, but i have been so swamped with law school finals that I havnt had a chance to watch many fights. I usually like to re watched fighters last few performances before making a move even if I have seen the fights already as I am usually high and/or drunk while watching PPV's. In any event, my thinkin was this:
(all of this reasining is open to debate and it is not steadfast so opinions welcome)

1. Rampage is a more well rounded fighter than he was in 2003 and 2004, his wretling and stiking are stronger.

2. Despite his destruction of Keith Jardine, Silva has previously peaked in terms of overall ability.

3. Although Silva has put on weight, but he still appears to be an undersized 205er, while Rampage is a large 205.

Silva did not respect Jardine's power and came out and completely mauled him to death. That will not be the case here. I see the fight starting out more like Chuck/Wander. I think Rampage's striking will be more precise and technical. I think Silva will land some bombs, but he wont be able to drop Jackson with strikes as the chances of his wild striking landing on the button are not great as long as Jackson keeps his composure. I dont think the clinch is going to be a factor, I think Jackson preperation, along with his size advantage will keep him out of the clinch. If Silva is persistant with it, he will get beat up on the inside with dirty boxing and Rampage will be able to put him on his back like he did Dan Hendersen. Silva does not attempt to use his bbj and submitting rampage from his back would be shocking to me.

I dont think leg kicks are going to be an issue. Silva is not as long as Forrest and I dont see him using leg kicks as effectively.

You have to question Rampages mental state, this is an issue, the question is how much weight do you give it. He seemed incredibly focused in the interview on ESPN, then today got this from article on mmajunkie....

"I'd say that my last fight probably was the best thing that happened to me," said Jackson, who spent much of his UFC 92 training camp in England. "I got rid of some old baggage and it actually made me hungrier, right? So, I started back. And, it just made me really think about my career. Like, look, I'm a professional fighter, you know what I'm saying?

"I'm a professional athlete. I've got to start eating like one. And, I never did that type of stuff. Not even for my whole career, not even protein shakes. I've got a good nutritionist and good people behind me and telling me all the good things to do and stuff I've never done before. And, this has paid off. It's showing in my work ethic and my training."


"Since last August, I got rid of all the baggage around me, and got a bunch of good people around me and good things," Jackson said. "And it’s actually working out pretty well, you know. So I'm pretty happy with how everything is turning out."

"Honestly, I knew that I'd see Wanderlei again, especially as soon as he signed with the UFC," Jackson said. "It was inevitable. And I don’t see this as revenge. Revenge is a dangerous motive. This is my job. This is my fight. This is my career. This is my life.

"Those first two times happened. It didn't have the outcome that I wanted to have, but this is my time to make it right in my mind. Fighting when I'm a little bit better. I'm a little bit older and more mature now. I'm a lot better with my skills and everything. So I feel like this time right here, this is the time where I can go and give it my all, my 100 percent. This is my time right here to go and do it."


I know you dont expect a fighter to say he is a mental wreck, but all indications are that he is coming into this fight 100%.




 
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I didn't like Rampage last fights at all , not that Wanderlei impressed either .
 

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Rampage always says he's 100 percent for every fight. History has shown that he has been flat coming off of losses.

This time around, he's not only coming off a loss but he's also coming off of a highly public mental breakdown, criminal charges, delusions of divinity, relocating to England, and b-movie acting gigs. I don't understand how these things taken together help him at all. He's just saying the same thing every fighter says before a fight. The reality is that he's only a few months removed from dramatic and stressful life-changing events.
 

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Rampage always says he's 100 percent for every fight. History has shown that he has been flat coming off of losses.

This time around, he's not only coming off a loss but he's also coming off of a highly public mental breakdown, criminal charges, delusions of divinity, relocating to England, and b-movie acting gigs. I don't understand how these things taken together help him at all. He's just saying the same thing every fighter says before a fight. The reality is that he's only a few months removed from dramatic and stressful life-changing events.

that is true. pending felony charges must weigh on your psycy. plus, he did seem to be in a pretty scary state of mind. but maybe a new atmosphere is what he needed. i guess only one person knows for sure.
 

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The more I look at this, the more I want to stay away from this fight. Sometimes your best bet is no bet at all.
 

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I equate this fight to everyday life. I know that it's not the same thing, but you cannot tell me that mentally there's no comparison.

You have beef with a person, and you decide to square up and fight. You meet up, and you get a few shots in, however, your opponent just destroys you in dramatic fashion.

So, you decide that the guy had landed a few lucky shots that rocked you and you couldn't recover and that's why you got whooped, and you want a rematch. So, you go for the rematch, and the same result, he absolutely whoops your ass and knocks you out cold.

You cannot sit here and tell me that you could fight this same person for a 3rd time and go in confident.

I laugh at the person who thinks Rampage is going to come in technical and crisp striking. Rampage is going to try to take this fight to the ground, you're a fool to think otherwise.

On top of the previous fights, Rampage is going through REAL LIFE EVERYDAY legal stuff. Nobody can concentrate 100% with FELONY charges on them. You can say whatever you want, but mentally, your brain is what it is.
 

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I laugh at the person who thinks Rampage is going to come in technical and crisp striking. Rampage is going to try to take this fight to the ground, you're a fool to think otherwise.

Hey, no need to get personal, boy.

I also said that he would be able to put Silva on his back. I just dont think he is going to come into the fight fearing Silva's striking as much as you seem to. But, intelligent minds can see the same situation differently. I am confident in my ability to cap mma, but it is good to hear other points of view sometimes. However, I think it is clear that you are a big fan of Wanderlie, so I dont know if you are the best source of information.

Like I said earlier, I need to find the time to re-watch previous fights (hopefully tomorrow). But I do believe that Rampages striking has come a long way and I thought it looked good since he has been in the ufc.

As for your real life equation, i think ive been there. When we were young, I used to beat my brother up. Four years or so went by and he grew up and we got in a fight and he kicked my ass. Point being, times change. You act like the first and second fight were total dominations. I have seen replays of them and i seem to remember both fights being very competitive before the finishes.

Anyhow, in my above analysis I didnt put much stock into the previous fights as I feel like both fighters have evolved, for better or worse.
 

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I wasn't getting personal, I was just writing my thoughts, it wasn't directed at anyone specific, BOY.

I've watched MMA since I was a little kid and I'd go to my uncle's house and watch all the PPV's. Would be around 1996 when I started watching.

IMO, Rampage is honestly one of the most overrated and overhyped fighters in MMA. I'm not saying the guy isn't good, because I think he's a very solid fighter, however, alot of people hype him up to be an elite fighter, and I don't think he is. Rampage struggles against fighters who bring the action to him and aren't counter punchers.

You're referencing a fight between 2 brothers and when you were kids....hardly my point. I'm talking about a legit fight between 2 people who don't like each other. That was a poor attempt to shoot down my comparison.

I act like both were dominations? Well, I certainly wouldn't want to remember laying in the ropes. I also think that if the ref has to come in and stop the fight, it's because you're being dominated and can't defend yourself.

I really don't look at odds at all when "capping" MMA. I quote capping because I don't believe in such thing. I believe in breaking down the fight, the matchup, styles, or whatever else there is, and seeing who I think the best fighter is. ODDS have nothing to do with my analysis. Then I look at the odds when placing the bet, if they're astronomical, then I'll just pass or play the big fav in a parlay.
 

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You got personal when you said you laugh at a person who would think like that while paraphrasing something I said. Then, you basically called me a fool.

Look, im not one to put my internet muscles on and get it to a bitchfest. So I will just leave it at that.

I reference "capping" because that is what we are doing here. You analyze fights, look at odds and attempt to find value in those odds. Odds should have nothing to do with your analysis, however, they sure have something to do with your decisions. I dont have to think a fighter is going to win to bet on him, I just have to think he is going to win more often than the odds represent. But, i dont think this needs any situation. Clearly, I do not think that the above scenerio would happen 100% of the time. I dont even think that would happen more often than not. Countless possibilites, I can just envision that.

My comparison to fighting my brother as a youth was just an analogy to the fact that people change over time, they develop. Obviously, both fighter were grown men in a real fight the first two times. but I just believe that Rampage has developed, while Silva has digressed some.

Yes, both fights ended in devastating fashion, but if I remember correctly, i thought they were both highly competative before the tko's.

Sometimes I feel like the fact that I was realitively late into the mma scene helps me cap the sport. Maybe the fact that you have watched Rampage for years and have always thought he was overrated effects your view of the Rampage today. Maybe not. Maybe Im completely wrong on this one. Im not sold on Rampage by any means, if he was favored to win this fight I wouldnt even touch him. However, if this fight was set in May of this year, I think you see Rampage at -150 here despite the fact that silva holds the two wins. With all that has happened in the last 6 months though, it is hard to grasp what to expect imo.
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No problem, we're grown, like these 2 fighters, and can discuss without having to TKO each other :)

As far as digressing for Wandy. I think it was a VERY good thing that he digressed because he was on top for sooooooooooooooo long. Wandy hasn't lost to any flops...he lost to a Belfort who was one of the most feared men in the world at the time and Wandy was virtually a little kid in MMA years. The Tito fight was annoying because he didn't get beatup, he just got layed on basically. I wish he wasn't more for show against Chuck, because when he knocked him down, I thought he could've got on top and did some damage. However, the past is the past.

I think Rampage is a benefit of his personality and "gimick." I have several friends who don't know the difference between MMA and UFC LOL...but they know Rampage and his howling stuff. Fighters like that are going to be popular and their perception is most definately going to be good.

I can relate, because when I was a kid, I thought Tank Abbott was great because they always showed his VERY FEW knock outs. Here, over 10 years later, I look back and wonder what the hell I was thinking.

You are pretty spot on about odds being the ultimate decision. I'm not laying -1100 on Anderson Silva, even though I think the guy will go into retirement without losing. There's always that lucky punch, and broke I go! Typically, I won't lay 5:1 unless it's a parlay to juice up the parlay just a bit.

Great discussion, and FEAR WANDERLEI
 

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I think Rampage is overrated but really neither of them have the skills of lets say Fedor or Big Nog . I totally agree with BUCS :

I think Rampage is a benefit of his personality and "gimick." I have several friends who don't know the difference between MMA and UFC LOL...but they know Rampage and his howling stuff. Fighters like that are going to be popular and their perception is most definately going to be good.

But Wanderlei himselfs lives off like 10 wins over undersized japanese fighters in PRIDE . Neither of them have real sub skills on the ground , wrestling edge to Rampage of course but in his last fights I wasn't impressed by his performance as GSP would say .

I think anything can happen in this fight , both men not in their prime anymore with so many good fighters around : Evans , Griffin , Machida , Thiago young guns are taking over with more overall skills . I think both are pretty evenly-matched at this point of their career and I am not sure who will take that fight .
 

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this will be clinch fight. silva much more powerful now and the knees will be the deciding factor
 

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Some people forget that Wandy is only 32...I think he just had his birthday so he may be 33 now. He's certainly not old, just has gone through some brutal fights.

Wandy has alot left in the tank, but he lost to 3 world class fighters in Hendo, Cro Cop, and Liddell....not many fighters could go through that 3 banger and be 1-2.

I'm expecting a KO by Wandy
 

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this will be clinch fight. silva much more powerful now and the knees will be the deciding factor


clinching is the thing that won silva the first 2 fights...clinching with the muay thai knees..

that`s the LAST thing that jackson wants to do....if he doesn`t understand that,then he`s lost already...

wanderlei`s 32 going on 45 in mma years,imo...he`s been brutally knocked out twice relatively recently,not to mention taking a brutal beating from liddell...

i see jackson trying to spend as much time on the ground as possible....

no soccer kicking a downed opponent in the head or kneeing a downed opponent here.......

no 10 minute first rounds...

and i think that fact that theres a fence instead of ropes helps the physically stronger man...which is jackson...

when he was knee`d and stopped by silva he seemed to sag against the ropes..easier to get those knees up when i guy is sagging and listing against the ropes.....much more support from a cage...


rule changes...the cage...imo,it`s no accident that some of these brazilians haven`t faired as well away from pride as they did in pride...i think the use of elbows to the head and the prohibition of kicking and kneeing a downed opponent hurts the brazilians(particularly guys like silva and rua) who specialize in leg and knee striking probably more than upper body striking...

i see silva in a similar light as i see a faded crocop after a few bad beatdowns.....

..if jackson plays macho and reckless like hot and cold jardine,he could get caught...if he fights smart...picks his spots and uses his strength and takedowns/wrestling,i think he can win...maybe easily...

it`s all about jackson`s head here..that`s my opinion...

and his head is why i`ll be wagering small...
 

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i`m backing off a bit on this....i like other things on upcoming mma cards much better than this and don`t want to give the impression that i`m hanging my hat on this wager...i`m not......just watched the spike show on this card and i don`t particularly like what i see from rampage...he doesn`t give me the impression that he`s totally confident about the fight....

i`m still wagering a very small play on jackson....more on the belief silva`s a tad diminished than ON rampage......but,silva`s frenetic,attacking style seems to be a bad fit for jackson...

whereas a measured,technical guy who fights at a slower pace(ala liddell) seems to suit jackson`s style better...

the question is can jackson fight a smart,controlled fight against silva?...

i`m not entirely sure whether he can or not...

already hit marcus davis at -120 and alvarez+100...and am looking to parlay matt lindland....i don`t buy into the belfort hype...hasn`t he "come back" several times only to be had once he fights a real opponent?....

he has a puncher`s chance...but lindland isn`t an easy guy to knock out...and i never liked belfort against elite grapplers...
 

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7:40 PM
33525 QUINTON JACKSON +105
33526 WANDERLEI SILVA -135

lll take my chances with +105 and the 3rd time being a charm theory

:cripwalk:
 

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I'll stay away. Fight could go either way.

I'd lean Silva. Tough to beat a guy 3 times, but Silva is ready.

Should be the best fight on the card.
 

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