US Says Canada Cares too Much About Freedom, Liberty

Phaedrus · May 2, 2003

Jesus, I hate seeing stuff like this.

Ottawa Citizen Story Here

Excerpt:

"The State Department report on global terrorism for 2002 suggests that while Canada has been helpful in the fight against terrorism, it doesn't spend enough on policing and places too much emphasis on civil liberties.

It says 'some U.S. law enforcement officers have expressed concern' about Canadian privacy laws.

The U.S. officers feel those laws, as well as funding levels for law enforcement, 'inhibit a fuller and more timely exchange of information and response to requests for assistance,' the report says.

'Also, Canadian laws and regulations intended to protect Canadian citizens and landed immigrants from government intrusion sometimes limit the depth of investigations.'"

Has the entire population of the US gotten so stupid that privacy is no longer perceived as a need? My own girlfriend thinks I'm an outer-fringe lunatic who shouldn't feel concerned about privacy if I "have nothing to hide."

Fourth Amendment Kabobs, anyone?

Phaedrus

Oceans11 · May 2, 2003

justinh · May 2, 2003

Brazil4Worldcup2002 · May 3, 2003

americans piss me off, bunch of f*cking self-serving hypocrites

kayaman+ · May 3, 2003

"places too much emphasis on civil liberties"

I thought we were the champions of freedom.

Our founding fathers are surely rolling in their graves at our government making a comment like that.

sphincter · May 3, 2003

if they bomb toronto,that may change....anybody that doesn`t understand the u.s.` concerns about their borders must be living in a cave....i`m with phaedrus` girlfriend....smart lady....can`t bitch about protection on the homefront if you`re not serious about the borders.....that`s the u.s.` beef with canada.......but,most posting in this thread would be very glad to see another major terrorist attack inside the u.s. killing many civilians....and that makes the whole debate silly....you rake the u.s. for wanting to protect itself while it`s hands are tied with the old"don`t take my civil liberties" b.s.....

just patrol your own damned border like you mean it,canada....i wonder what would be said if canada was the target of terrorists?

civil liberties and the constitution....now used as the tools of the enemies of the u.s.....they should not be construed as a suicide pact......

i still say costa rica should invade canada...i`ll lay odds that c.r. could make defenseless canada it`s 8th province...abel pacheco would be a distinct improvement over slack-jawed jacques chretien

corey · May 4, 2003

Sphincter,

Your post was at the same time funny and assinine. Allow me to retort.

"If they bomb Toronto.." nobody will. Sorry, people just don't hate Canadians like they hate Americans.

"can`t bitch about protection on the homefront if you`re not serious about the borders.....that`s the u.s.` beef with canada"

FYI... NONE, that's zero, or 0 if you prefer of the Sept 11th hijackers came to the US from Canada. In fact, Canada Customs has been working overtime keeping people from the US from entering Canada.

You obviously don't live near the border, so let me explain the problems this is causing to businesses on both sides. Traffic gets backed up for 20 miles sometimes. This is huring real people in both countries.

"...most posting in this thread would be very glad to see another major terrorist attack inside the u.s. killing many civilians..."

I don't think so. I can't speak for others but I defininely do not want any more attacks. Hurts innocent people, econmically bad, etc....

"i still say costa rica should invade canada...i`ll lay odds that c.r. could make defenseless canada it`s 8th province...abel pacheco would be a distinct improvement over slack-jawed jacques chretien "

I know this was a joke, so I reply in kind....We Canadians welcome the beneficent rule of King Abel. Long may he live. Please do not try to fix the highways though. I personally look forward to the CR tax system where you report what you make and there is no auditing service. All hail the short Tico.

grantt · May 4, 2003

Sphincter I love Americans. They talkk so loud and so much but know so litte.
"i still say costa rica should invade canada...i`ll lay odds that c.r. could make defenseless canada it`s 8th province...abel pacheco would be a distinct improvement over slack-jawed jacques chretien"
Just for your information Costa Rica does not even have a standing army.

radiofreecostarica · May 4, 2003

"...or the land of the free, and the home of the brave."

What a lie this has now become.

sphincter · May 4, 2003

"costa rica has no standing army".....well said,grantt....my point exactly...

nanuk...canada is much like the little brother that resents the fact that big brother is bigger,stronger and has to take the responsibility that little brother either chooses not to or is not capable of handling.....but when little brother gets his ass in a sling,he`s damned glad big brother is standing there beside him....of course canada has no worries regarding terrorism...obviously....neither does monaco or sealand...

i suspect that if canada was not so fortuitously located next to their friend,they very well may be a province of a more aggressive,militarily superior country.....o.k.....costa rica was a stretch....maybe belize or luxemborg...

as far as the "tight" canadian border....

"Panel considers terrorist threat on U.S.-Canada border"

-- Fear of terrorist plots against U.S. targets following recent arrests on the Canadian border prompted a Congressional panel Thursday to search for new ways to identify and seize potential terrorists along the historically open U.S.-Canada border.

"The December arrest of Ahmed Ressam as he attempted to enter the U.S. from Canada with hundreds of pounds of sophisticated bomb-making materials was a loud wake-up call," said Rep. Lamar Smith (R-Texas).

Smith's immigration subcommittee heard terrorism experts from both the United States and Canada cite the Canadian public's historic lack of concern about terrorism and the growing realization refugees are taking advantage of Canada's lenient policies.

"Canada is sought out as a haven by terrorists," said David Harris, former Chief of Strategic Planning for the Canadian Security Intelligence Service.

Canada 'terrorist-friendly'?
"Fifty international terrorist organizations are represented on our soil. Some of our laws are frankly terrorist-friendly," Harris told the lawmakers.

The former Ottawa intelligence official also cited public apathy. "The fact that Canadians themselves have not been traditional targets of political violence has meant a failure of popular vigilance."

A U.S. policy expert currently working in security issues in Canada told the lawmakers publicity on the issue could have an unintended negative impact.

"In the media coverage broadcast around the world by CNN and others, we alerted the world to the openness of the U.S. border with Canada," said Christopher Sands of the Center for Strategic and International Studies. "To those hostile elements around the world that had not discovered it yet, we advertised our vulnerability."

As the year's first congressional hearing concluded, Smith said he continues to support a mandatory entry-exit system that would require every border passage to be recorded. "We need to have that on both borders, but it needs to be done in a way that will not impede trade or traffic," he said.

Canadian Ambassador Raymond Chretien, nephew of the prime minister, attended the hearing, and afterward made clear his government would continue to oppose the stricter controls of an entry-exit system.

"Let me say that when it comes to fighting terrorism our laws are as strict if not more strict than American laws, the ambassador told reporters.

Chretien said the Ottawa government was open to changing its immigration laws. "In particular I think that the objectives would be to facilitate the detention of potential terrorists," he said.

i suspect that as soon as chretien departs(which should be soon),the relations between the old friends and neighbors will once again be renewed...by the way...i hope little chretien was elected and not appointed....i`m sure there`s no nepotism involved(lol)....

for my canadian buds on the board...my shots at canada were obviously tongue in cheek and were stictly meant in jest....my beef is with chretien...

grantt · May 4, 2003

The only thing Canadians want to keep outside their borders are Americans. The murder rate is a fraction of the U.S.'s. The streets are clean, great standard of living, good beer, the average person is not fat and loud and best of all it's not America. I'm guessing there is not alot of Canadians that want your gun culture and all that goes along with it.

PIPE · May 5, 2003

BTW THIS TITLE SHOULD ADD CANNABIS SMOKING

Breaking News Coverage. PM Jean Chretien calls for decrimilization of cannabis by mid-June. US Drug Czar John Walter's reacts with horror, calling Canadian decrim and the possibility of increased bud-flow across the boarder "a form of chemical-warfare".

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>PM Jean Chretien calls for decrimilization of cannabis<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

MY KIND OF MAN THIS JEAN C PRIME MINISTER

JOHN WALTERS CALLING THIS CHEMICAL WARFARE LMAO
THIS GUY GOES HAND IN HAND WITH BAGHDAD BOB VERY COMICAL DOESNT HE KNOW THE CANNABIS IS REACHING THE US ACROSS CANADIAN BORDERS ANYWAY

sphincter · May 5, 2003

seems i hit a nerve.....

....chill my brotha`....

kayaman+ · May 5, 2003

Guys don't argue with sphincter it's not worth it. He's already expressed that he doesn't care about civil liberties, he'd just assume seal the borders with 50 foot walls and live under a big brother police state.

Phaedrus · May 5, 2003

Grantt, in this thread and in a couple of others you mention the bane of America's "gun scoiety." While I don't normally bother with such, her's an example to help you sleep better at night ... don't worry Grantt, we'll have Canada and the UK's "gun societies" emulated before too many more years .. .where only violent criminals are well-armed and the populace sleeps with the covers pulled up to their chins in the night.

Ronald Dixon, twenty-seven, a Navy veteran who works two jobs, doing computer work at Carnegie Hall and a Wall Street firm on weekends, of Canarsie New York shot and wounded Ivan Thompson, forty, of 790 Eldert Lane, East New York, just before eight A.M. inside his family's Schenck Street home after he was awakened by a loud noise and saw in his bedroom mirror the reflection of a man in the hallway near the bedroom where his eighteen-month-old son Kyle was sleeping.

While his frantically dialed 911 Dixon drew a nine millimeter Ruger pistol from his closet and confronted the man, who by then was rifling through drawers in the child's bedroom. Pressed for an explanation, Ivan Thompson tried to scare Dixon by pretending he was sent upstairs by accomplices searching for valuables downstairs.

When it became apparent Dixon was standing his ground, Thompson advanced toward Dixon, who justifiably fired at least twice, striking Thompson once in the chest and once in the groin. Thompson, a career burglar with a fourteen-page rap sheet, who has nineteen previous arrests, and who's on parole until 2004 for a burglary conviction, tumbled down the stairs, then got up and fled before collapsing outside the house. He was rushed to Brookdale University Hospital Medical Center, was listed in critical but stable condition, and is unfortunately expected to survive.

Dixon bought the defensive firearm legally in Florida, but was charged with criminal possession of a weapon because the defensive firearm wasn't yet registered in New York, although the law-abiding Dixon had filed the necessary paperwork to do so, paying a firm specializing in expediting applications for legal defensive firearm permits in New York City. The company respectfully took his money, happily cashed the check and then went out of business.

Brooklyn District Attorney Charles Hynes, whose "buyback" program embarrassingly crashed in flames when the only people to turn in firearms were all the court officers rushing to turn in their rusty revolvers in favor of high-capacity Glock self-loaders, wants Dixon to serve a year at the jail on Rikers Island, the very same jail Thompson is incarcerated at, thus conforming to Rabbi ben Levi's axiom in failing to distinguish between the illegal gunplay of drug dealers and an honest man justifiably protecting his home.

Hynes' spokesman Jerry Schmetterer said, "There is no question he had the right to shoot the burglar in his house, but he had no right to have a weapon." Nullum crimen sine poena ? no "crime" must remain without punishment, whether the law explicitly provides for it or not.

Read that last quote again Grantt, and don't give up on the old US of A just yet; we'll be a Socialist zombie farm like Canada before too much longer.

Phaedrus

sphincter · May 5, 2003

again,well said,phaedrus....you are absolutely an indepedent thinker...all over the board...not wedded to any extreme political philosophy...it is a pleasure reading your posts...although the loaded topic header was a little much....i like your topics better when you have to read the topic to get to your point of view....

kaya....thanks for speaking on my behalf...i just thought it odd that all the america haters are so anxious to scream foul when the preeminent democracy(yes i know it`s actually a republic) in the world needs to hitch up it`s belt a bit when the very freedom`s they represent and fight for prove to be somewhat of an achilles heel when it comes to our national security...we`ll have to find some middle ground....some compromise to keep all you foreigners(or americans that are hiding out)happy without throwing the baby out with the bath water.... some compromise may be necessary when it comes to national security....i don`t know about costa ricans,but i believe the majority of americans understand the logic...it`s not a difficult concept to grasp...

SPIVE · May 5, 2003

"He who forfeits his liberties for the promise of security deserves neither." –Ben Franklin

SPIVE · May 5, 2003

"When liberty is taken away by force it can be restored by force. When it is relinquished voluntarily by default it can never be recovered." -Dorothy Thompson

SPIVE · May 5, 2003

"The more corrupt the state, the more numerous the laws." Tacitus

SPIVE · May 5, 2003

"Mankind is more disposed to suffer, while evils are sufferable, than to right themselves by abolishing the forms to which they are accustomed." T. Jefferson The Declaration of Independence, 4 July 1776