Ukrane, From A Jewish Historian's Perspective

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(I can see why my grandfather GTF out of there. Nothing but heartbreak. Decades of persecution and a stomping ground for the Germans and Russians)




3/3/2014 [h=2]UKRAINE AND US[/h]
Ukraine occupies a very tortured and bloody place in the history of Eastern Europe. Sandwiched between Poland, Austro-Hungary and Russia and being neither Polish nor Russian in language, faith and ethnic culture, it always found itself in a very bad neighborhood.

Stalin and Khruschev starved five million Ukrainians to death in the 1920s to enforce their agricultural collectivization program. Much of Ukraine served as the battlefield between the German and Russian armies during World War II and its landscape remains scarred by those battles even today, seventy years later.

Unspeakable atrocities occurred daily in Ukraine in World War II with both German and Russian armies being guilty of inhuman behavior on a vast scale. Ukrainian nationalism was squashed by the heavy hand of the Soviet Union until the collapse of the USSR in 1991. Ukraine declared its independence then and has been searching for a way to build for itself a form of democratic government, a working economy and a better life for its citizenry.

Over the last twenty years it has had its ups and downs and never really achieved for itself the blessings that it hoped independence from the Soviet Union would achieve. The Russian bear has now reappeared on its eastern border and once again threatens Ukrainian independence and territory.

Putin, in his inimitable fashion, mocks the impotence of the United States and the West and things look fairly bleak for the future of Ukrainian independence. There is no one in the Ukraine, I believe, that thinks that the United States or the European Union is prepared to ride to Ukraine's rescue. And so, like many other countries, ours included, Ukraine has the bad fortune of having to live in a very bad neighborhood.

The history of Ukraine and the treatment of its Jewish population is also a sad and bloody one. The great pogroms of 1648 and 1649 that killed hundreds of thousands of Jews were led by the Ukrainian nationalist Bogdan Chmeilitzki. There is a statue in his honor in the main square of the city of Kiev. To Ukrainians he is a national hero. To the Jews he is recorded in our history as a villain first-class, a murderer of women and children and is listed together with Haman and Hitler in the unsavory pantheon of Jew haters and anti-Semites.

In World War II and the ensuing Holocaust, a substantial number of Ukrainians served in the SS, were camp guards in the concentration and killing camps and were willing collaborators with the Nazis in rounding up the local Jewish population for deportation and murder. Now naturally the Ukrainians were no different than most of the populations of Europe in the 1940s.

France and Holland, Belgium and Poland were also countries rife with collaborators who helped the Nazis eradicate their Jewish populations. Much of this has been smoothed over by the West, though to me it explains the almost knee-jerk reaction of enmity of the European Union to the State of Israel and to the Jewish people, its faith and religious rituals.

The current spate of banning ritual kosher slaughter and the opposition to circumcision represents only the tip of the iceberg, underlying the true feelings and policies of Europe towards the Jews – a legacy of fifteen-hundred years of persecution and hatred. Still Ukraine holds a very prominent place in this sad and unreasonable story of the oppression of the Jews.

We are told that there are still approximately two-hundred-thousand Jews living in Ukraine as of today. There has already been a call by smaller Jewish communities in Ukraine asking Israel to send security forces to their communities to help protect them from the ongoing anti-Semitic acts and expected violence. It will be interesting to see what if anything Israel can or will do to defend those Jews who still live in Ukraine. After all, if Israel is not a Jewish state but just a state where Jews live then why should it be more concerned over the fate of people living in Ukraine than are any of the other countries of the world.

A great deal of Jewish money and effort has been invested over the last twenty years in attempting to revive Jewish life in Ukraine. The results are murky and mixed. What is pretty clear though is that most Ukrainians would prefer their country to be judenrein.

I cannot judge other Jews for their motives and behavior, their actions and inaction. Nevertheless, it seems to me that those Jews living in Ukraine and who somehow have not previously absorbed the lessons of Jewish history regarding Ukraine and the Jews would do well now to think again about remaining there.

Whatever the future of the Ukraine will be, it should be obvious that there really is no Jewish future possible there. It is perplexing and fascinating at one and the same time to witness how the Lord is staging this drama for us in this season of the year.

Shabat shalom

Berel Wein
 

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'The history of Ukraine and the treatment of its Jewish population is also a sad and bloody one. The great pogroms of 1648 and 1649 that killed hundreds of thousands of Jews were led by the Ukrainian nationalist Bogdan Chmeilitzki. There is a statue in his honor in the main square of the city of Kiev. To Ukrainians he is a national hero. To the Jews he is recorded in our history as a villain first-class, a murderer of women and children and is listed together with Haman and Hitler in the unsavory pantheon of Jew haters and anti-Semites.

In World War II and the ensuing Holocaust, a substantial number of Ukrainians served in the SS, were camp guards in the concentration and killing camps and were willing collaborators with the Nazis in rounding up the local Jewish population for deportation and murder. Now naturally the Ukrainians were no different than most of the populations of Europe in the 1940s.'

Interesting. It seems to me however that the real haters of the Jews in Ukraine were the prime movers who overthrew Viktor Yanukovich.
Why then would the US try to come to the rescue of those now in control.

One of which now in the cabinet is famous for revealing proudly, 'Aleksandr Muzychko is the notorious Right Sector leader,
in 2007 pledged to fight against "communists, Jews and Russians for as long as blood flows in his veins," openly saying
that leading the fight against all of the above mentioned groups is his "credo."

Svoboda, the ultra-nationalist party, received several key positions in the government because of their leadershio at Kiev-Maidan.
39-year-old Oleh Tyahnybok, the towering and intimidating far-right leader of Svoboda, He called upon his supporters saying: “[You are the ones] that the Moscow-Jewish mafia ruling Ukraine fears most! He does not want to build a civic nationalism, but an ethnic one, built upon affirmative action for Ukrainians (or negative discrimination against all others.

What's up with this group of thugs, why is Obama trying to champion their cause?
 

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Thanks for the replies. SB, Israel took in thousands of Ethiopians so I'm sure all the Jews of Ukraine are welcome. The problem is the transportation.

Neverbend thanks for your posts on this conflict. You seem to know much about this region. How do you think events will play out? As far as Obama goes, is he just demonstrating his usual naivete, or is there hope that most Ukrainians desire a free society, democratic institutions and self-rule? How about Klitschko? Does he have the skills to unite the nation?
 

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Thanks for the replies. SB, Israel took in thousands of Ethiopians so I'm sure all the Jews of Ukraine are welcome. The problem is the transportation.

Neverbend thanks for your posts on this conflict. You seem to know much about this region. How do you think events will play out? As far as Obama goes, is he just demonstrating his usual naivete, or is there hope that most Ukrainians desire a free society, democratic institutions and self-rule? How about Klitschko? Does he have the skills to unite the nation?

This is a huge world event that matters, I'm surprised there is not more interest in it. As for your questions.

I think the US helped initiate the demonstrations in Kiev, the National Endowment for Democracy being a prime mover. Ukranians with legitimate grievances started the action but the Right Sector & Svoboda were the muscle needed too overthrow the elected president & lead to the chaos that the reasonable protestors never expected or intended.

About the Jewish situation in Ukraine. Unless those haters like Aleksandr Muzychko who once promised. "The next president of the country will be from Right Sector!' " Dmitry Yarosh or Oleh Tyahnybok
gain further power the Jewish influence & the need for it in Ukraine seems solid.
In fact, the acting Prime Minister has recruited some wealthy Jewish leaders to tame Eastern Ukraine.
A new East Ukraine governor is Igor Kolomoiski, 51, who is co-owner of the powerful Private banking and metal industry holding.
A leader of Ukraine's Jewish community, Kolomoiski is worth $2.4 billion.

How about Klitschko? My guess is he is as reasonable & rational as any of the candidates for president election in May. When the new peace deal on early elections and constitutional reforms reached between Ukrainian President Viktor Yanukovich and opposition leaders was finally signed, Vitaly Klitschko, opposition leader and head of the UDAR party was booed when he portrayed the latest deal as “very important.” He even attempted to speak about the agreement during a recent memorial service for a protester killed during recent clashes. He spends much time in Germany & wants Ukraine to turn westward he does not foam at the mouth about hatred towards Russia. He's moderate & he might work however he is not the choice of those who matter in the US.

Finally Obama, I think he's wrong on just about everything, constantly violates the United States constitution & now is trying to lecture others on the necessity to uphold "Constitutional Law" in far away lands.

Scott unlike you I have no ancestral links to this area, my people all came here from England, Scotland & Northern ireland over 100 years ago. Scotland is having a referendum about breaking up with England later this year and my grandmother from Scotland would have
hated to witness this happening such was her love for the Britain, the unity between Scotland & England.
 

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NB don't know how you've acquired so much knowledge of this region and conflict but thanks for your perspective.

This forum is basically down to Left and Right bashing each other and posters telling each other "you're stupid." It's usually mostly domestic issues discussed here but with this disastrous presidency and foreign affairs off the front page until recently, this is what we have.

Usually foreign issues are not discussed here until something goes BOOM. But it interests me as we live in an interconnected world.

Poster Superbeets has Centrist views, and lives in Britain. I'm the Jewish, Pro-Israel guy. Most of the Jew bashers are now in the stock forum, losing all their money due to the 7 of us Jews who run the entire world :)
 

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We can get the news on these events from the American perspective from many outlets, I find CNN spends the most time on the crisis.
On radio in NY area Micheal Savage's 'Savage Nation' The from 3 to 5 dwells on Ukraine & his take on Ukraine in twines intellect & comedy.

The Russian perspective is best represented on the internet site rt.com.
If you type in the names Oleh Tyahnybok, Aleksandr Muzychko & Dmitry Yarosh in the upper right hand corner of rt.com website
you'll really get a read on those who have risen to new popularity because of the Kiev-Maidan who ceratinly won't help diffuse this stalemate.

Scott you mentioned' This forum is basically down to Left and Right bashing each other and posters telling each other "you're stupid."'
It's funny but the bashing here between anti-Obama & pro-Obama posters seems like a 'sweet summer breeze' type bashing when compared to the 'sledgehammer, hurricane type' displayed by the rival pro-Ukranian & pro-Russian posters on this site comments
on the articles. It's real hatred.
 

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1939830_723822384324497_779128498_n.jpg
 

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Israel took in Ethopian jews, who most likely had a one time jewish admixture, but not before sterlizing their women

they admitted years later

if a western nation did this, lulz
 

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nationalism is on the rise in europe, people are awakening to the fact, they had no choice in mass immigration, and preserving their own thede is indeed important

as it is to israel too
 

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Hopefully Israel will allow them into their country.

Don't predict the demise of the Jewish in Ukraine so soon! Yats the prime minister who recently traveled to the USA to meet with obama
is Jewish as are many of the Ukranian oligarchs.

More good news for Ukranian Jews came today when notorious ultra-nationalist leader Aleksandr Muzychko (Right Sector) was shot dead by Ukrainian special forces after going on the rampage amid Ukraine's current turmoil. Muzychko’s death followed many years of unpunished militant activity in neo-Nazi organizations. Back in 2007 he pledged to fight against "communists, Jews and Russians for as long as blood flows in his veins,"

“The current government in Kiev came to power with the help of the Right Sector. They wouldn’t have got the power without the Right Sector. It was the force that was torching government buildings, using the violence to get them into power. '

Dmitry Yarosh, partner in crime with Muzychko, leader of Ukraine's Right Sector nationalist party, is demanding the resignation of acting Interior Minister Arsen Avakov and the arrest of police officers involved in the killing of notorious radical militant Aleksandr Muzychko.

"We cannot watch silently as the Interior Ministry works to undermine the revolution," Interfax reported Yarosh as saying. “We demand the immediate resignation of the Interior Minister Arsen Avakov, and the arrest of the commander of the Sokol Special Forces and those guilty of [Muzychko’s] murder." Stay tuned!
 

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yup... the color revolution needed the enthusiasm of the nationalists for their coop, but once the goal was accomplished they cut off its head
 

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No im afraid that article doesnt debunk anything, and you merely searched for anything to defend your position, not truth
 

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