UFC falls short this weekend

[sleung]

UFC Desperate?
<?xml:namespace prefix = o ns = "urn:schemas-microsoft-comfficeffice" /><o></o>
You think UFC is getting desperate using marketing instead of talent to compete with Affliction?
<o></o>
I mean marketing Anderson Silva on the light heavyweight angle and using former TUF disgrace Jesee Taylor to fight is not the best thing to display for the UFC. They have the resources and money to really put a nail in Affliction but they do it half assed and try to save money
<o></o>
I think the UFC should use talent to beat the competition and not be cheap and come in from a marketing angle to compete with other organizations
<o></o>
Let the talent speak for itself not poor marketing like using the TUF show angle.
<o></o>
I know my hard core MMA fans know what I’m talking about and can see through a lame attempt by the UFC.

Jusy my thoughts

 

[JakeT.]

I don't see Affliction ever being a challenge to the UFC. They are not going to make money with their business plan. It's a great first card but keeping all those guys isn't going to happen.

PS, Jesse Taylor is possibly the best fighter on the entire show. He's a legit UFC talent. Still young and primarily a wrestler, but he can compete with alot of guys. I think he would have beat Amir was my choice from the start.

PSPS, the show is pretty damn good for being free.

I'd much rather watch some of these undercards than an Aoki fight. I hate that little boring bastard haha.

Anyway, that's all the rambling I have for now.

 

[TheBrainiac]

Fkn UFC should go to Brazil and Russia and find some skilled guys , I am sure there are plenty and bring them to UFC for cheap price .

 

[JakeT.]

Fkn UFC should go to Brazil and Russia and find some skilled guys , I am sure there are plenty and bring them to UFC for cheap price .

They have a ton of Brazilians. Not so many Russians but other than Fedor and Alex there isn't a ton of top-level talent there. Brazilians haven't faired too well in the UFC lately other than Big Nog. Guys like Gouveia and Tibau and some others with ATT have had some losses lately.

 

[sleung]

my problem is that the UFC tries to impose standards which I think are good but Taylor goes ape shit and acts like an idiot and he gets a shot again so fast.
<?xml:namespace prefix = o ns = "urn:schemas-microsoft-comfficeffice" /><o> </o>
Isn’t that White being hypercritical? In the name of marketing a sub-standard card<o></o>
<o></o>
All to save money and not paying real fighters real money
<o> </o>
Hardcore fans do know the difference with real talented fighters versus guys that really are not that good in hopes to save money and marketing guys that should not be marketed
<o> </o>
I thought more competition would lead to better cards but in fact they are becoming worse
<o></o>
Sorry I think I ranting on multiple issues I have with UFC

 

[turbozed]

You're preaching to the choir here. Anyone who watched MMA for more than 2 years won't be impressed by the UFN as a substitute for top HWs. Guys like Fedor, Aleks, Barnett, and Lil Nog (and retaining Arlovski) were the guys we were promised when the UFC bought out PRIDE. The fact that the UFC didn't deliver and now is trying to destroy the upstart promotion that is trying to deliver us the goods that they couldn't is an insult to injury for the fans.

Even though I hate their T-shirts, I'm impressed that Affliction can put together an event with so much talent. Kinda makes you wonder what a company 100x bigger and more successful like the UFC could afford. In any event, I will support Affliction by ordering the PPV but I wouldn't be surprised if it fails miserably. Most MMA fans don't know what they're watching and will follow the UFC 'brand' more than they will follow talent in other organizations.

 

[JakeT.]

You're preaching to the choir here. Anyone who watched MMA for more than 2 years won't be impressed by the UFN as a substitute for top HWs. Guys like Fedor, Aleks, Barnett, and Lil Nog (and retaining Arlovski) were the guys we were promised when the UFC bought out PRIDE. The fact that the UFC didn't deliver and now is trying to destroy the upstart promotion that is trying to deliver us the goods that they couldn't is an insult to injury for the fans.

I disagree. UFC is a business. They also offered Fedor a ton of money and he just wasn't interested in fighting in a major organization against legit talent. He wanted to do his Sambo thing more than test his skills in the biggest promotion. UFC has offered these guys contracts. Affliction is just overpaying and ultimately the UFC is a business and can't just pay these guys massive amounts of money when they won't bring in that income. I would have loved to see some of those guys in the UFC but you can't blame Zuffa as they made good offers to all of them.

 

[JakeT.]

PS, for all the people who complain about it, UFC still has a way deeper talent pool than any other organization.

 

[Uno]

more is being made of this than should be. the UFC sets the standard, period. affliction will try to surpass that standard but even if they do it this weekend it won't make them but a gnat on a rhino's ass.

and don't fool yourself... if dana and co. thought Nog, Feder, Barnett so on and so forth were the future they would be fighting in the UFC.

they aren't tho they are MMA's past and they are a great past but Affliction is like the Yankees and we all know how that always works out.

the UFC literally has it's own farm system and like a minor league game it is a lot cheaper to see the young up and comers play.

solid work by me in this post.

 

[turbozed]

LOL @ the idea of Fedor not being interested in fighting in a major organization with legit talent.

Fedor didn't want to play by the restrictive contracts. That's a disagreement between the UFC and Fedor, and you can't blame either party if they're not getting what they want out of the deal.

But to say that Fedor was dodging *competition* is laughable and completely disproved by the facts here. First of all, UFC's HW division has always been lackluster. I don't think Fedor is really scared of fighting in the organization whose champion he had already dominated twice before.

Furthermore, Fedor's resistance to signing to the UFC has actually increased the level of competition available for him to fight since the best HW talent now is not signed with the UFC. Barnett, Couture, and Arlovski are the most compelling fights for Fedor and he not with the UFC. I'm not very interested seeing Fedor vs. Nog IV, or Fedor destroyHeath Herring again.

Like I said, the UFC has done a good job of making some care more about their brand than the actual fighters. It's not a bad thing in itself, but when you make the mistake of assuming that UFC must have the best HW competition because of the magic letters U-F-C, then something more insidious is at work.

 

[turbozed]

more is being made of this than should be. the UFC sets the standard, period. affliction will try to surpass that standard but even if they do it this weekend it won't make them but a gnat on a rhino's ass.

and don't fool yourself... if dana and co. thought Nog, Feder, Barnett so on and so forth were the future they would be fighting in the UFC.

they aren't tho they are MMA's past and they are a great past but Affliction is like the Yankees and we all know how that always works out.

the UFC literally has it's own farm system and like a minor league game it is a lot cheaper to see the young up and comers play.

solid work by me in this post.

No it's pretty terrible. That's like saying if the MLB made all the decisions for the team, they should fire all their expensive players like A-Rod because there's so many great players in the minor leagues. Well, sure, those minor leaguers are the future, but if you get rid of the stars now, you're depriving the fans of getting to see the best generation of baseball players at the present moment. Same goes for MMA.

I can see how someone might think that it's a smart business maneuver (in fact, I think it's brilliant), but as an MMA fan who knows I'm getting the wool pooled over my eyes, I'm not going to forgive a wrong just because I'm impressed with how well the UFC carries out its business.

 

[JakeT.]

LOL @ the idea of Fedor not being interested in fighting in a major organization with legit talent.

Fedor didn't want to play by the restrictive contracts. That's a disagreement between the UFC and Fedor, and you can't blame either party if they're not getting what they want out of the deal.

But to say that Fedor was dodging *competition* is laughable and completely disproved by the facts here. First of all, UFC's HW division has always been lackluster. I don't think Fedor is really scared of fighting in the organization whose champion he had already dominated twice before.

Furthermore, Fedor's resistance to signing to the UFC has actually increased the level of competition available for him to fight since the best HW talent now is not signed with the UFC. Barnett, Couture, and Arlovski are the most compelling fights for Fedor and he not with the UFC. I'm not very interested seeing Fedor vs. Nog IV, or Fedor destroyHeath Herring again.

Like I said, the UFC has done a good job of making some care more about their brand than the actual fighters. It's not a bad thing in itself, but when you make the mistake of assuming that UFC must have the best HW competition because of the magic letters U-F-C, then something more insidious is at work.

Not bad points, and I understand he wanted to do his Sambo tourneys and whatnot and the UFC wouldn't let him, but I think he's more than happy to face off against freakshow fighters and non top 10 guys to protect his legacy.

PS, almost no one was signed when Fedor agreed to join the organization. He had no clue what they would be able to actually sign. He just got the money he wanted. It's not like all those HWs were signed when he went there so I don't think you should use that to further any points.

UFC also has some nice new talent in Valezquez and Carwin at HW and those two will make that division very exciting.

 

[Uno]

forrest griffin, bj penn, rampage jackson, chuck liddel, gsp... i don't feel like typing out all of the people who can carry a UFC PPV Main Event but the point is they do have the stars.

the only company that competes is themselves with guys like Faber in the WEC.

on top of that they have a ton of young talent which they cultivate on free broadcasts which you guys in turn complain about.

you keep talking about being a true mma fan or whatever but you obviously are a few cards short of a full deck.

who did they get rid of? a bunch of people who were over the hill or headed over the hill... tell me who the hell fedor has beaten recently... tell me what the collective UFC record is of the people fighting in this Affliction card.

the truth is there has to be a balance b/w superstar talent and young developing talent and there is no doubt the UFC has the market cornered on that balance.

lastly anyone who believes in fedor's greatness and believes he could have competed in the UFC for more than a year or two is an idiot.

here is the record of the last guy he beat:

http://www.sherdog.com/fightfinder/fightfinder.asp?FighterID=20693

and this guy before the lindland fight...

and this guy 5 fights ago...

this guy would be smoked against decent competition and he knows it.

 

[sleung]

this might be issue determined by age and familiarity

I think me and turbozed might be a little older (30's), know the sport more from the time it started back in 93 and were hard core Pride guys

I think Jake T. and Uno might be early 20's and were young when the days of Pride were around and did not see how crappy the UFC was at one point.

If you have seen what MMA used to be to how it is now, you know the business and might not like how things are progessing

I mean before they never got paid in North American and were paid a lot in Japan. Now with the UFC dominace they are still not paying and treating fans and fighters like crap.

this might be fine for the casual sports bettor and MMA fan but the for the hardcores that help build the sport through the internet we know whats up

i still love the UFC but i can feel things going the way of a huge monoploy where we get what they determine, not what fans dictate. I see it coming. all marketing no substanace and people will eat up sub standard quality fights

in pride fans got the fights everyone wanted. UFC starting to be run by the corporations, i can see it

 

[turbozed]

Yes, instead of fighting 1-0 freakshow fighter Hong Man Choi, he could've fought 1-0 UFC freakshow fighter Brock Lesnar.

The difference here is that Hong Man Choi actually has combat fighting experience. And Mir for some reason gets a title shot after beating Lesnar?

Fedor's legacy is going to be solid regardless of whether the new generation UFC fans decide to embrace him or not. And you can hardly blame guys like Fedor, Barnett, Aleks, and the majority of the ranked LWs for being inactive once PRIDE went belly up (which the UFC facilitated it, btw, by buying em out). In the end, Fedor waited it out, is facing a top 5 HW on Saturday, with the potential to face 2 more top 5 HWs in Couture and Barnett, and can still compete in national sambo and hang out with Vladimir Putin. All of this was no possible with the UFC.

Also, if you're a purely UFC fan (which you appear to be) you should be thanking Affliction for providing some competition. I don't think anyone can argue that UFC would magnanimously put out a free card with Silva on it if it *weren't* for Affliction. Instead, we'd be paying for the type of cards when there wasn't any competition....cards with main events like Bisping v. Evans.

 

[turbozed]

forrest griffin, bj penn, rampage jackson, chuck liddel, gsp... i don't feel like typing out all of the people who can carry a UFC PPV Main Event but the point is they do have the stars.

the only company that competes is themselves with guys like Faber in the WEC.

on top of that they have a ton of young talent which they cultivate on free broadcasts which you guys in turn complain about.

you keep talking about being a true mma fan or whatever but you obviously are a few cards short of a full deck.

who did they get rid of? a bunch of people who were over the hill or headed over the hill... tell me who the hell fedor has beaten recently... tell me what the collective UFC record is of the people fighting in this Affliction card.

the truth is there has to be a balance b/w superstar talent and young developing talent and there is no doubt the UFC has the market cornered on that balance.

lastly anyone who believes in fedor's greatness and believes he could have competed in the UFC for more than a year or two is an idiot.

here is the record of the last guy he beat:

http://www.sherdog.com/fightfinder/fightfinder.asp?FighterID=20693

and this guy before the lindland fight...

Just because Fedor fought some questionable opponents doesn't take away from the legitimate accomplishments that he did have. Are you seriously arguing that Fedor couldn't compete in the UFC with it's HW division? Fedor has already beaten its current interim champion, and one of its contenders in Herring.

Also I don't see how you felt it necessary to name stars in the UFC as if this is an issue of whether or not the UFC is the best organization. Nobody will argue with you there. Stick to the issue, which is MMA HWs, a division that has been missing for 2 years regardless of the great talent out there.

I don't know why you and the 'newer' generation of MMA fans really have such a hard-on for discrediting all the fighters that accomplished anything in the past. It's like Dana White is Chairman Mao and this is some MMA Cultural Revolution where kids and teenagers are running around trying to destroy any evidence that there was high(er) quality MMA around that you unfrotunately weren't watching at the time.

 

[JakeT.]

Yes, instead of fighting 1-0 freakshow fighter Hong Man Choi, he could've fought 1-0 UFC freakshow fighter Brock Lesnar.

The difference here is that Hong Man Choi actually has combat fighting experience. And Mir for some reason gets a title shot after beating Lesnar?

Fedor's legacy is going to be solid regardless of whether the new generation UFC fans decide to embrace him or not. And you can hardly blame guys like Fedor, Barnett, Aleks, and the majority of the ranked LWs for being inactive once PRIDE went belly up (which the UFC facilitated it, btw, by buying em out). In the end, Fedor waited it out, is facing a top 5 HW on Saturday, with the potential to face 2 more top 5 HWs in Couture and Barnett, and can still compete in national sambo and hang out with Vladimir Putin. All of this was no possible with the UFC.

Also, if you're a purely UFC fan (which you appear to be) you should be thanking Affliction for providing some competition. I don't think anyone can argue that UFC would magnanimously put out a free card with Silva on it if it *weren't* for Affliction. Instead, we'd be paying for the type of cards when there wasn't any competition....cards with main events like Bisping v. Evans.

Mir got the shot because he was UFC champ before the motorcycle accident. He had some losses when he came back but obviously wasn't at 100%. PS, Lesnar has UFC wrestling credentials and had trained. Not saying he's any less of a freak show than Choi, but you won't see any UFC champ fighting a guy with no or one professional fight anytime soon.

 

[JakeT.]

Let's just agree to disagree on this one turbozed. Let's concentrate on making money instead of arguing about dumb stuff. Cheers.

 

[turbozed]

In any case, this should be an off-topic thread, since it only has an incidental nexus with betting.

 

[sleung]

I think u think that because the UFC marketing machine told you to think that

UFC is great at marketing but people should distinguish between the two

EX - Anderson Silva’s first UFC fight vs. Chris Leben. The UFC was telling everyone how good Leben was and he was a heavy handed world beater.

Guess what the Leben was a sportsbook favorite before that fight

Do you believe everything the UFC says and tell us?

Jorge Gurgel’s a great fighter.
How good Tim Sylvia and Couture are and now the UFC bashes them.
That Josh Barnet and Matt Lindland are over the hill because they publicly come out and publicly criticize the UFC
That the UFC has the best middleweight division in the world
That the UFC has the best heavyweight division in the world

People have to think for themselves not believe what is told to us by marketers

TRUE NO more arguing about politics

best dog pick for all three events is Mike Whitehead over Sobral at +215