The world according to Me-anstreak ...

[Meanstreak]

I will try to type this slow so the Americans reading this can follow ....

As it is painfully obvious the intellectual capacity of this room is quite limited I will use a reference I am sure many of you can handle, namely a hollywood movie called 'Daredevil'.

In the aforementioned movie Daredevil witnesses a beating and killing of one man at the hands of another. As it is apparent to Daredevil that the man who was beaten and killed did not deserve to die, he follows the perpetrator home and procedes to mete out 'justice' and kills the transgressor. As it happens, the man Daredevil has just disposed of has a son who witnessed the swift application of justice. Upon realizing this, Daredevil insists to the child that he was 'justified' and 'right' in his actions. The son has no clue as to what his father has done to deserve such a fate. He only learns that killing is 'right' and 'justified'.

Now we have this fatherless child growing up with rage and hate in his heart for Daredevil. He grows up believing that killing another can be justified and right. ARE YOU GETTING THE PICTURE YET ?

Somewhere out there are a bunch of muslim children growing up with hate in their hearts and the notion that killing can be justified. So together with a few like minded individuals they got behind the wheel of a couple 747's and exploded them into a building full of people they felt 'justified' and 'right' about killing. Now there are thousands of other father and mother-less American children out there who feel compelled to get their 'revenge'. On top of that there are hundreds of thousand of other children already enlisted in that great revenge seeking establishment called the 'military' feeling justified in their mission to kill other humans they don't even know.

AM I MAKING MYSELF CLEAR HERE PEOPLE !!??

Once a civilization accepts the principle that killing another can be justified then there can be no peace, and no freedom ... because there will ALWAYS be another big kid on the block seeking to excercise their 'right' to kill.

MIGHT does not make RIGHT kids. You want to talk about bravery and courage ... how about that Chinese student at Tinnamen square standing defiantley AND PEACEFULLY in front of an army tank !!!!!! There is a man who can appreciate and understand freedom and peace ... WHO DID NOT KILL A SINGLE SOUL.

Contrary to what your teachers, politicians, and parents tell you Americans ... you are A BUNCH OF COWARDS ... you hide behind your military MIGHT in the name of freedom. All the while ignoring that not so subtle difference between DYING and KILLING for freedom and peace.

One of the greates fictional characters of all time ... Jesus Christ... DIED for his beliefs ... for crying out loud, here is a guy who had the LORD on his side ... the same lord that killed countless in a great flood ... but chose to DO THE RIGHT THING !! A great lesson that has forever been lost on you people.

So keep dressing up your cowardice in purple hearts and gold stars and tell yourselves that you are not a SICK society of murdering bastards ... but you are only deluding yourselves.

 

[xpanda]

Did you catch Mercer's one-hour 'Talking with Americans' special last night?

snippets;

<Mercer> "Excuse me, Governor Bush ... Canadian Prime Minister Jean Poutine has said he would endorse George W. Bush for President if you win the nomination. How do you feel about that?"

<Bush> "Well, Mr. Poutine is a smart man. He understands how important trade is between our countries."

Or ... (to average Joe)

>Mercer> "Canada is thinking about starting up a Navy even though we don't have any access to ocean waters. What do you think?"

<AJ> "Well, they can use our ports. We're all on the same side here."

To be fair, many of the questions posed involved things that perhaps the American public would have no need to know ... but the two listed above??? Jesus.

 

[Illini]

Meanstreak-keep on smoking your hash pipe and dreaming about world peace. Just love everyone and that will take care of everything. Sorry, your worldview, while ideal, is not reality. The sad truth is that there have been wars since the beginning of time, and they will never end. If everyone was like you and I, yes, there could be peace. But that is not the case. Real evil always has the potential to take over the world, so there will always be a need to fight for what is right. I hate war, and it is a very ugly thing, but it's a necessary part of living in this world.

 

[~Falco~]

"As it is painfully obvious the intellectual capacity of this room is quite limited I will use a reference I am sure many of you can handle, namely a hollywood movie called 'Daredevil'.".

Intellectual capacity?? how about your comic book mentality. Not only do you reference comic books but you chose the worst of the lot of comic to screen adaptations for your example.

Thats not my avitar under my name its a mirror look at your reflection.

We are animals and natural born killers. Deal with it. Hey do you want to go to the dump and shot rats.

 

[barman]

First off, my participation in here is not a blanket endorsement of Meanstreak's lead post.

But I would like to reply to this:


ILLINI: keep on ....dreaming about world peace. Just love everyone and that will take care of everything.

BAR: Every Master Teacher believes this to be a fundamental truth. Why don't you?

ILL: Sorry, your worldview, while ideal, is not reality.

BAR: It is in fact my reality, by choice. It's available to anyone who wishes to make the same choice.

ILL: The sad truth is that there have been wars since the beginning of time, and they will never end.

BAR: I'm sorry that is your perception. I don't share that perception.

ILL: If everyone was like you and I, yes, there could be peace.

BAR: Every man is our brother.

ILL: Real evil always has the potential to take over the world,

BAR: Not if good people practice higher principals and refuse to surrender.

ILL:... so there will always be a need to fight for what is right.

BAR: There is never a need to 'fight' for what is right. There is only a need to do what is right. We cannot make another person do what is right, but we can choose what we ourselves will do. That is life's full time job.

ILL: I hate war, and it is a very ugly thing,

BAR: Good, then join us in no longer participating in war. We need more good people and you sound as if you are one of them.

 

[Illini]

BAR- You're a good man, bro. If only it were that simple. If everyone were like you and me, and the majority of people, we would not even need laws, police officers, or a justice system. But just as sure as the sun will rise, there will always be a presence of evil. Hopefully, more times than not,the threat of war, and not war itself, will be enough to contain it.

 

[barman]

ILL: BAR- You're a good man, bro.

BAR: That's kind of you to say.

ILL: If only it were that simple.

BAR: It is just that simple. Our mistake is that we complicate it by giving into our fears and abandoning higher principles.

ILL: If everyone were like you and me, and the majority of people, we would not even need laws, police officers, or a justice system.

BAR: Well I think you might be giving 'us' too a bit too much credit. It seems reasonable that we will find a peaceful use for laws, police and a justice system for quite some time to come.

ILL: But just as sure as the sun will rise, there will always be a presence of evil.

BAR: Perhaps yes. But evil is best overcome by practing higher principles, not by engaging in evil oneself.

ILL: Hopefully, more times than not,the threat of war, and not war itself, will be enough to contain it.

BAR: Earlier you suggested that 'war has always been with us'. You also suggest that evil is constant.

It would follow logically that if we have always had war or the threat of it, then evil would be contained. Instead you create a perpetual state of failure.

I would submit that until we cease war, we have no chance to succeed at peace.

The good news is that we can start at any moment (how about Now?) to abandon warlike principles and replace them with peaceful principles.

Oh, and note that I mean literally 'we', that is - You and I. I invite you to join us. The only way we can end war is if more and more people refuse to participate.

The only person you have power over to ensure the practice of peaceful principles is yourself.
So don't wait for 'the other guy' who you perceive should be the one 'to go first'.

 

[eldiablo]

Who cares what 2 Canadians and one wanna-be says.

 

[Phaedrus]

Illini

One point you forget about evil is that evil is parasitic -- without a "host" evil cannot survive. Good, on the other hand, is either neutral or productive in nature as far as its effects, and therefore is self-sufficient.

By its nature, evil can never "engulf the world" ... even if it came close to it it would simply collpase in on itself and good would replace it like spring does winter. (Pardon the nauseating simile, but it's valid.)


Phaedrus

 

[UncleMoneybags]

I think what Illini is trying to articulate is that two (2) sides need to want peace, not one. You may want peace and all that but if I want to bust you in your mouth, we're going to see some violence whether it is two-sided or just one-sided. You can take the high road but it's the person on the so-called low road that decides on the confrontation. I've participated in a few fights and I can't imagine that I would've been able to talk the other person out of it over a spot of tea.

There are a lot of different personality types out there. This approach might work for someone with a more benign nature but it would be decidedly dreadful for someone with an antagonistic nature.

 

[DarrylParsons]

If you are not prepared to use aggression or violence you will always be controlled by someone who is, even if he is by far your intellectual inferior. Being intelligent is wonderful but if you can't act on it it isn't worth much.

 

[barman]

UMB: You may want peace and all that but if I want to bust you in your mouth, we're going to see some violence whether it is two-sided or just one-sided.

BAR: I don't 'want peace'. I want to practice peaceful principles.

That does not prevent me from practicing self-preservation or self-defense.

The example you give would be one where I might use self defense, but that does not invalidate my principles.

OTOH, "initiating" the violence would indeed invalidate my intended principles.

Go back to the first post in this thread and tell me which of the principles I describe that you would be unable to practice while still reserving your right to self-defense and self-preservation.

 

[DarrylParsons]

Regarding self-defense vs. instigation...every military operation or guerilla-style (or "terrorist") attack I have seen or heard about has been considered an act of aggression (instigation or provocation) by the receiving party and an act of self-defense by the delivering party.

I don't mind it when a society tells me what their rules are, gives me a chance to stay and accept those rules, or leave, then if I stay, they use force on me to make sure I obey the rules. So far, no problem. A society has got to have rules, so everything's cool

But when they carry on and say using force is a bad thing, get caught in hypocrisy and act intelligent all the while just to confuse people, that's when I start to get a bit annoyed.

 

[sphincter]

from canada,huh...i have some good friends in canada...this is not aimed at all canadians,most of whom i have great respect for..not all are socialists like meanstreak....

32 million people in a country this large?....meanstreak and his ilk are suffering from classic "little man in big pants" syndrome....

luckily,despite the backwards efforts of "frenchmen" like chretien,you are joined at the hip to your protector, the u.s.....

if not,you might be singing the costa rican national anthem....

keep thinking those grandiose thoughts....little fella...

as far as muslim children growing up with hatred in their hearts.....they hate other muslims that don`t believe as they do,also.....you can thank the religious extremist schools(madrassas) that teach radicalism and hatred....it`s not just the west that draws their ire.....

they are intolerant of other religions...treat women like dogs.....basically live in a religious,totalitarian world that by it`s very nature stifles the progress of it`s own people...

we share a basic belief system....that`s right mr canada...we are joined at the hip by more than just land mass....and i`m not talking religion...

muslims are flocking to europe.....and to north america despite the current climate...


it is time that muslims acknowledge that the freedoms they enjoy in the west are more desirable than superficial solidarity with the radical muslim extremists.... if they disagree, then prove it by packing your bags and going to whichever muslim country they identify with.

i don`t agree with bush and ashcroft on many issues.....but,i would rather live in america under ashcroft and bush at their worst, than in any “Islamic state” established by ignorant, intolerant and murderous punks like mullah omar and others of his stripe...

[This message was edited by sphincter on April 28, 2004 at 12:51 PM.]

 

[Illini]

Sphincter-very good points, sir.

 

[barman]

SPHINC: i don`t agree with bush and ashcroft on many issues.....but,i would rather live in america under ashcroft and bush at their worst, than in any “Islamic state” established by ignorant, intolerant and murderous punks like mullah omar and others of his stripe...

BAR: Do you believe those are your only two choices? I bet not.

How about living in our country here; replacing Bush and Ashcroft for whatever reasons you don't like them, AND also working to assure our country's government does not get taken over by religious zealots as you describe above?

 

[Meanstreak]

Well apparently more lessons need learning in this thread, and lucky for you all here I'm just the man to teach 'em. Today's lesson is on that word so many of you banty around like a beach ball with, evidently, little concept of it's meaning. The word - FREEDOM.

Again, contrary to what you have all been lead to believe - freedom is inherent. You are all born free individuals, capable of making life altering decisions based solely on personal preference and desire. The only thing preventing you from realizing your true potential as a human being - that is to say, the only thing impeding your natural born freedom is that socially constructed institution called GOVERNMENT. Quite simply put, Governments can giveth and they can taketh away - you are as free as THEY ALLOW YOU TO BE.

Well I'm sorry kids, that just does not wash with me. All I hear from you cowardly, lemmings is how society needs laws and rules and regulations to survive. BULLSHIT ! There are literally thousands of laws out there, each and every one of them get broken by the thousands every day. Lets look at the law against HOMICIDE. The "government" says that it is "illegal" to kill another human being except as an act of self-defense. But, alas, murder is committed every day (more so in the U.S than any other 'country' in the world - but I digress) all over the planet. So tell me, how useful is that law ? Do we really need a law to say that it is wrong to kill another human being ? I DON'T - because regardless of the law I WILL NOT KILL ANOTHER - unless of course mortally threatened. It is that simple. Conversely, immoral humans lacking respect of human life will KILL regardless of what the so-called law says. GET IT ? So I ask, how useful is that law ? The law becomes even more absurd when one considers the entire world watched as OJ Simpson got away with it in a COURT OF LAW. A JOKE so cruel it can only be considered absurd, ridiculous and sureal.

Another example - in this part of Canada there is a law that requires car owners to get am emissions test every two years "to ensure the integrity of the pollution controls of the car". Not getting this test could result in your driving priviledges being revoked, a fine or both. Meanwhile, I live down the road from a Steeel mill that drops a quarter inch of soot on my car every two days, and discharges countless effluents into the neighbouring lake - LEGALLY !! What a fvcking joke ... again ABSURD and utterly ridiculous ...

You have laws in the States that prevent two same sexed human beings from marrying ? What the hell is that about ? Who is anybody to tell another human who they can and cannot 'legally' romantically associate with ? WHAT A JOKE !! What's more , if I am a homosexual I have to ask myself "Why do I need to permission of another to unite with the one I love ? " Me I would prefer to stay the hell out of the system ... which is exactly my personal philosphy ... at any chance I get I look to stay out of the system ... I don't file tax returns, I don't pay fines and I don't follow laws I don't agree with ... in short I don't respect any authority which aims to limit my pursuit of personal happiness. I smoke pot because I like it. I speed on open highways because I like the thrill. My parents allowed me to drink wine at the dinner table before I was so-called "legal". I also drove an automobile before the "legal" age as well.

From my way of thinking, as long as your actions do not impede another human's pursuit of their idea of happiness THEN SO BE IT. Live and let die people.

I cannot stress this enough people - the only things impeding your freedom are government agents, and people who otherwise would do the same regardless of what "the law" says.

Freedom does not necessarily have to FOUGHT for OK ? It only requires you accept the responsibilities inherent in being human. FvCK the government, fvck all who try to tread on others .... WAKE UP ... WE ARE ALL IN THE SAME BOAT ... why aquiesce to the POWER of Authority ? Realize your own destiny ! Do as you please DO NO HARM !

How anyone can be PROUD to belong to a nation-state is beyond me. I am not a proud Canadian, I happen to be a human being born within this socially constructed land mass called CANADA.

I am not a socialist, to my knowledge I do not suffer from "little man in big pants syndrome" WHATEVER THE HELL THAT IS !! - (hey SPHINCTER, can I find that in any medical journal ?)

For crying out loud people I am just another human being deserving of no more or less respect than any other human suffering under the human condition.

The sooner you realize that you are nothing more than pawns in a geo-political game of chess between other more priviledged humans than yourself you always remain enslaved by others' IDEOLOGIES and AGENDAS.

PEACE.

 

[xpanda]

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Meanstreak:

I live down the road from a Steeel mill <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

Hamilton, by chance?

 

[Meanstreak]

yes panda, the sewer of our province. Hamilton.

Can you believe there are people here that would call themselves 'proud Hamiltonians' ?!

 

[xpanda]

I'm in Hamilton, too. It's freakin' disgusting here. I stay west of downtown, personally. I'm originally from Guelph, the tree-hugging/recycling capital of the world. Big difference.

Weird, tho. Of all the gin joints ....