The Iraq War .. Kerry was correct!v- GREAT ARTICLE

Search
Joined
Oct 21, 2004
Messages
22,231
Tokens
War News Continues to Prove Kerry's Words

Mon Apr 24th 2006


If you look at the latest dismal approval numbers for George W. Bush, it is obvious that there are now millions of Americans who know -- the theft of the 2000 election from Al Gore notwithstanding -- that a John Kerry presidency would have put the country on a far different path than the across-the-board quagmire we now have under Team Bush. And even if most of us put aside the criminal aspects of this administration such as selling out covert CIA agents for political revenge and spying on Americans without a warrant, Kerry's words as both a young Veteran and a presidential candidate continue to haunt us when we look at Iraq.

Let's just take a look at what happened over the weekend as the man who actually attacked us on September 11 -- you remember him, don't you, Republicans? Osama bin Laden? -- is apparently still podcasting threats from a Cheney-like undisclosed location and we continue to lose our bravest military people fighting in a country that posed no threat whatsoever to America.

Three U.S. soldiers were killed Sunday in Baghdad, raising to eight the number of Americans killed over the weekend in Iraq and bumping the grim total to almost 2,400 members of the U.S. military who have died since the war started in 2003. Also in Baghdad, over 20 Iraqis died over the weekend in what the Bush administration continues to insist is not a civil war.

Meanwhile, a tape alleged to have been made by Osama bin Laden, surfaced over the weekend and the man Bush stridently claimed he would get dead or alive over four years ago appears to still be running free and continuing to threaten our country -- hey, he got away with it the first time, didn’t he?

kerry_DNC.jpg

And so we go back to the man who would have been president.

"I know what we have to do in Iraq. We need a president who has the credibility to bring our allies to our side and share the burden, reduce the cost to American taxpayers, and reduce the risk to American soldiers," said Kerry in his 2004 Democratic Convention speech. "That's the right way to get the job done and bring our troops home. Here is the reality: that won't happen until we have a president who restores America's respect and leadership -- so we don't have to go it alone in the world."

There is no doubt that leaders throughout the world would have taken a second look at their stance on the U.S. invasion of Iraq, had we as a nation tossed Bush out on his ear and elected a president the rest of world could rally behind. In addition, there would also have been tremendous benefit in having a non-Chickenhawk, Commander-in-Chief who has actually served in combat and knows -- unlike Bush and his toy-soldier cabal -- that every day of war is indeed hell.

"I know what kids go through when they are carrying an M-16 in a dangerous place and they can't tell friend from foe," said Kerry about a Vietnam that could easily be Iraq today. "I know what they go through when they're out on patrol at night and they don't know what's coming around the next bend. I know what it's like to write letters home telling your family that everything's all right when you're not sure that's true."

Bush and his crew don't know because, to them, war is an oversimplified abstraction and it shows in an obviously painful way.

kerry_1971.jpg


But the most sadly poetic realizations come when you look at the old footage of the 27-year-old, Vietnam-Veteran Kerry testifying before the Senate Foreign Relations Committee on April 22, 1971.

Kerry, then one of the leaders of Vietnam Veterans Against the War gave riveting and erudite testimony that left even critics astounded at the intellectual weight brought to bear by such a young man. And, of course, some of Kerry's honest descriptions of combat in Vietnam were dug up again by the Republican party to use against him in the presidential campaign and to smear his patriotism with words three decades old.

What is both amazing and profoundly sad is to read back through Kerry's entire narrative and see the startling parallels between what Kerry said over 35 years ago and what is happening today with the Iraq war.

"We found that not only was it a civil war, an effort by a people who had for years been seeking their liberation from any colonial influence whatsoever, but also we found that the Vietnamese whom we had enthusiastically molded after our own image were hard put to take up the fight against the threat we were supposedly saving them from."

It sounds very much like how our soldiers must feel right now, being smack-dab in the middle of a civil war and with a huge number of mainstream Iraqis identifying more with the insurgents than with the American purpose.

Kerry talked further in 1971 about being misled into the Vietnam war…

"In our opinion, and from our experience, there is nothing in South Vietnam, nothing which could happen that realistically threatens the United States of America.
And to attempt to justify the loss of one American life in Vietnam, Cambodia or Laos by linking such loss to the preservation of freedom…is to use the height of criminal hypocrisy, and it is that kind of hypocrisy which we feel has torn this country apart.

"At any time that an actual threat is posed to this country or to the security and freedom I will be one of the first people to pick up a gun and defend it, but right now we are reacting with paranoia to this question of peace and the people taking over the world."

And how much more could any of us add to that statement today? Where Kerry's generation had a war started on a lie – the Gulf of Tonkin Incident – we have Bush misleading us into the Iraq disaster with ignored intelligence and a disingenuous, predetermined purpose.

As a Veteran, and one who lives daily with private thoughts about my own experience, Kerry's warnings about the price we and our brave men and women in Iraq will pay for a generation and beyond, is especially compelling.

"I would like to talk to you a little bit about what the result is of the feelings these men carry with them after coming back from Vietnam. The country doesn't know it yet, but it has created a monster, a monster in the form of millions of men who have been taught to deal and to trade in violence, and who are given the chance to die for the biggest nothing in history; men who have returned with a sense of anger and a sense of betrayal which no one has yet grasped. As a veteran and one who feels this anger, I would like to talk about it. We are angry because we feel we have been used in the worst fashion by the administration of this country."

Yes, this is a different generation and a different war, but the circumstances under which our soldiers are fighting today is very much the same and we will see the same degree of post-traumatic stress, alcoholism, drug abuse, divorce, dysfunctional families and suicides among Iraq Vets as we saw among their Vietnam predecessors. In addition, many Iraq-war Veterans, already struggling with what they experienced in combat, will be forced into an even greater sense of despair and anger as the true nature of the deception leading to this war becomes even more apparent.

Finally, as we hear about more Iraqis killed and the horrible toll we pay in American lives as each day goes by, the Senator's words in 1971 about the terrible inability to admit and correct a massive mistake come back with astounding clarity.

"Each day to facilitate the process by which the United States washes her hands of Vietnam someone has to give up his life so that the United States doesn't have to admit something that the entire world already knows, so that we can't say that we have made a mistake.

"We are asking Americans to think about that because how do you ask a man to be the last man to dies in Vietnam? How do ask a man to be the last man to die for a mistake?"

You can reach Bob Geiger at geiger.bob@gmail.com and read more from him at Democrats.com.
 

Snatches Defeat from the Jaws of Victory...
Joined
Apr 9, 2006
Messages
463
Tokens
I'm puttin All threads by Doc back on page 1
 

Rx. Veteran
Joined
Apr 22, 2006
Messages
3,699
Tokens
I read the pointless Kerry piece. Islamofascists have declared war on the U.S. and we are fighting them. What is the mistake? And if Kerry thinks that our country defending itself against these fascists is a mistake, then how will he enlist our allies to bear more of the load than they already are? Kerry lost in 2004....the Dems should move on.
 

New member
Joined
Oct 21, 2002
Messages
7,379
Tokens
Anti-liberal, cute. Who's ghost are you? I think everyone should have 13 ghosts.
House on Haunted Rx I'm tellin' ya.
 
Joined
Oct 21, 2004
Messages
22,231
Tokens
Anti-liberal, cute. Who's ghost are you? I think everyone should have 13 ghosts.
House on Haunted Rx I'm tellin' ya.

:puppy::puppy::puppy:
 

Rx. Veteran
Joined
Apr 22, 2006
Messages
3,699
Tokens
House of Thirteen Ghosts was a great movie. Not a ghost, BTW...but you don't want to hear that because you think you already have everything figured out.

I'll discuss the Kerry propaganda piece, but I won't trade personal attacks with posters here, because it's pointless and a waste of my time. If anyone would like to discuss an issue, I'm game.
 

New member
Joined
Feb 21, 2006
Messages
1,164
Tokens
Anti... the libs dont debate here... they just make childish remarks about your mother or something.
 

Rx. Veteran
Joined
Apr 22, 2006
Messages
3,699
Tokens
Darwinian said:
Anti... the libs dont debate here... they just make childish remarks about your mother or something.

Sounds great...where can I sign up for that? lol
 

New member
Joined
Mar 22, 2006
Messages
250
Tokens
Anti-liberal said:
House of Thirteen Ghosts was a great movie. Not a ghost, BTW...but you don't want to hear that because you think you already have everything figured out.

I'll discuss the Kerry propaganda piece, but I won't trade personal attacks with posters here, because it's pointless and a waste of my time. If anyone would like to discuss an issue, I'm game.

I'll debate with you. Let's start with "Islamofascists have declared war on the U.S". Please explain this comment. Who exactly are we talking about?
 

New member
Joined
Oct 21, 2002
Messages
7,379
Tokens
Anti-liberal said:
I read the pointless Kerry piece. Islamofascists have declared war on the U.S. and we are fighting them. What is the mistake? And if Kerry thinks that our country defending itself against these fascists is a mistake, then how will he enlist our allies to bear more of the load than they already are? Kerry lost in 2004....the Dems should move on.
The piece had a point, you just don't want to acknowledge it. We aren't fighting in Iraq because of Islamofacism, we're fighting there for a reason as yet undisclosed to the American public.
But for the time being the reason de jour is so the 2,391 military personnel that met their doom in that shit hole won't have died in vain(a particularly wonderful reason since the more that die the more reason we have to stay). What they don't tell you is the first person that was killed there died in vain.
Now, really whose ghost are you, inquiring minds want to know.
 

Rx. Veteran
Joined
Apr 22, 2006
Messages
3,699
Tokens
"Islamofascists have declared war on the U.S." 9/11...tapes of Bin Laden calling for all Muslims to rise up against western civilization in jihad...radical preachings in mosques that have inspired murders and suicide bombings from Russia to England...Iran vowing to "wipe Isreal off the map" while they try to develope nukes...Hamas, a terrorist group, elected in Palestine...

These radicals all have one ultimate goal...for Islam to someday dominate every country on earth. They openly state this as well as openly discussing terrorist attacks on the U.S.

One of the main reasons I feel there hasn't been an attack since 9/11 is that the gloves would come off in the "war against terror". Another attack would justify the U.S. for hitting many targets already in it's sights and they know this.
 

Rx. Veteran
Joined
Apr 22, 2006
Messages
3,699
Tokens
JinnRikki said:
The piece had a point, you just don't want to acknowledge it. We aren't fighting in Iraq because of Islamofacism, we're fighting there for a reason as yet undisclosed to the American public.
But for the time being the reason de jour is so the 2,391 military personnel that met their doom in that shit hole won't have died in vain(a particularly wonderful reason since the more that die the more reason we have to stay). What they don't tell you is the first person that was killed there died in vain.
Now, really whose ghost are you, inquiring minds want to know.

Our soldiers are in Iraq and Afganistan fighting to dismantle a very large terrorist group of Islamofascists and establish democracy in the Middle East in hopes of future stabilty, all the while protecting your freedom to vent on these internet forums all day. Give them the thanks and respect they deserve.
 

New member
Joined
Sep 27, 2004
Messages
8,951
Tokens
Anti-liberal said:
Our soldiers are in Iraq and Afganistan fighting to dismantle a very large terrorist group of Islamofascists and establish democracy in the Middle East in hopes of future stabilty, all the while protecting your freedom to vent on these internet forums all day. Give them the thanks and respect they deserve.
I love our soldiers and am very thankful they do a wonderful job. The ones I abhor are the civilian leaders that abuse this trust the soldiers have. Shame on them. Shame on GWB!
 

New member
Joined
Mar 22, 2006
Messages
250
Tokens
Anti-liberal said:
"Islamofascists have declared war on the U.S." 9/11...tapes of Bin Laden calling for all Muslims to rise up against western civilization in jihad...radical preachings in mosques that have inspired murders and suicide bombings from Russia to England...Iran vowing to "wipe Isreal off the map" while they try to develope nukes...Hamas, a terrorist group, elected in Palestine...

These radicals all have one ultimate goal...for Islam to someday dominate every country on earth. They openly state this as well as openly discussing terrorist attacks on the U.S.

One of the main reasons I feel there hasn't been an attack since 9/11 is that the gloves would come off in the "war against terror". Another attack would justify the U.S. for hitting many targets already in it's sights and they know this.

Your response seems to be too wide and general to be of use here. A lot of these notions stem from how people percieve the strike and occupation by the US on Iraq, the continued military presence of the US on foriegn soil, the relentless march of western interests into their everyday lives. Rather than declaring war, most of this could be called a plea to 'leave us alone'. Your only specific response to my question was OBL. Are we talking about OBL? Did he declare war on the US? If so, why? Are there others - can you be more specific please, or else this debate won't leave the general realms of 'which came first, chicken or egg', circles.
 

She's either funnin' or bunnin' or else I'm runnin
Joined
Jan 11, 2005
Messages
1,353
Tokens
when I see someone from our armed forces, I will approach them, shake their hands and let them know that they are doing a great job and many thanks.

They are keeping our country safe.


Sol II
 

New member
Joined
Sep 27, 2004
Messages
8,951
Tokens
DELSOL II said:
when I see someone from our armed forces, I will approach them, shake their hands and let them know that they are doing a great job and many thanks.

They are keeping our country safe.


Sol II
I agree. And pick up their bar tab.:103631605 P.S. Del: I hope you know I was kidding the other day about smoking pot. I think you should be allowed to smoke whatever you want wherever, whenever.:103631605
 

Forum statistics

Threads
1,126,910
Messages
13,689,970
Members
102,388
Latest member
BIMSInc
The RX is the sports betting industry's leading information portal for bonuses, picks, and sportsbook reviews. Find the best deals offered by a sportsbook in your state and browse our free picks section.FacebookTwitterInstagramContact Usforum@therx.com