The discussion about change without bashing

[Willie99]

Does anybody believe either party represents change? I don't. Neither candidate is really proposing change anyways, they're just using the expression.

McCain is really a slightly right of center candidate as a whole, and BO is a totally left of center candidate (based on voting records). Both candidates espouse the same stuff that candidates have been proposing for years, simply tweaking long established ideas.

I find all this change talk to be cheap rhetoric.

Right, wrong or indifferent, the only real "change" candidate this year was Ron Paul. Now he was putting some different shit out there. Of course, change for the sake of change is not necessarily a good thing.

I'm not for starting over, no need to throw the baby out with the bath water, but I'd like to see some serious system tweaking.

 

[Samhain]

I don't either.

In my opinion the real change needs to take place in Congress & the Senate.

I really don't care for either candidate. But obviously in my opinion one is worse than the other.

 

[RobFunk]

I am going to wait for McCain's speech before I decide I guess.

I will admit some of what Obama is proposing sounds a bit undoable.

We got next to nothing done the last 2 years. Gridlock city.

 

[PatPatriot]

What kills me about the dems is that they have lost two election to one of thee most incompetent men in the universe,and what do they do??
Nominate someone even farther to the left than John Kerry and Al Gore.
If Hillary was the nominee she would be up by 20 points right now.

But I'll tell you. I'm actually scared of an Obama presidency.Your looking at a 50% tax rate with 10 a gallon gas and heating oil.With people like Bill Ayers on Supreme court.
Obama is fucking scary.

 

[RobFunk]

Obama said he wants to cut taxes for 95% of working familys

I guess the other 5% are uber rich types he roll back some Bush tax cuts on.

Though if the middle class has more money to spend, that is good for commerce and rich business owners make more money anyways. Sounds good in theory, I guess.

 

[Samhain]

The problem is that when you raise taxes on the rich, they will in turn raise their prices to compensate for that tax hike. It's a no win situation.

A democratic president with a democratic congress could be hell for everyone. You need a balance.

Clinton had it, Reagan had it.

 

[RobFunk]

Why was trickle down economics such a success during Reagan and a disaster under Bush. I don't get it. Oh I know why Reagan didnt spend and print money like Bush.

Reaganomics

1.reduce the growth of government spending,
2.reduce marginal tax rates on income from labor and capital,
3.reduce government regulation of the economy,
4.control the money supply to reduce inflation.


Bush fail steps 1-4. lol

 

[Bookieman]

blah.. blah... blah blah....

 

[bblight]

Why was trickle down economics such a success during Reagan and a disaster under Bush. I don't get it. Oh I know why Reagan didnt spend and print money like Bush.

Reaganomics

1.reduce the growth of government spending,
2.reduce marginal tax rates on income from labor and capital,
3.reduce government regulation of the economy,
4.control the money supply to reduce inflation.


Bush fail steps 1-4. lol

The Bush tax cuts have kept the economy out of the cellar - the problem has been runaway congressional spending by both Republicans and Democrats.

Reaganomics started the greatest boom in US history - possibly the history of the world - the Reagan economic lagacy is still with us today.

Remember that Bill Clinton continued the Reagan economy - he didn't change a thing and kept Greenspan in place as Fed Chairman.

That's the beauty of the McCain Palin ticket - they're both reformers who can take on the congress and their special interests from the bully pulpit.

 

[cincy_]

Barack Obama doesn't represent change any more than Sarah Palin is a reformer. When you know that people can't do jack, you give them a fancy name and hope that people don't question it.

Obama hasn't "changed" anything in his life except election finance ... and Sarah Palin hasn't "reformed" anything but a school board. Now they're supposed to the CEO of a company with 100 million employees?

Obama will be lucky to do 10% of he proposes but he's the anti-Clinton, anti-Bush candidate and that's all people think of.

Palin is just so out of her league ... it's pathetic that we have to put up with this kind of shit when picking a vice-president.

 

[realestatepro]

Does anybody believe either party represents change? I don't. Neither candidate is really proposing change anyways, they're just using the expression.

McCain is really a slightly right of center candidate as a whole, and BO is a totally left of center candidate (based on voting records). Both candidates espouse the same stuff that candidates have been proposing for years, simply tweaking long established ideas.

I find all this change talk to be cheap rhetoric.

Right, wrong or indifferent, the only real "change" candidate this year was Ron Paul. Now he was putting some different shit out there. Of course, change for the sake of change is not necessarily a good thing.

I'm not for starting over, no need to throw the baby out with the bath water, but I'd like to see some serious system tweaking.

You can't discuss anything without bashing. It's kind of weird that you are requesting a thread with no bashing.

 

[cincy_]

You can't discuss anything without bashing. It's kind of weird that you are requesting a thread with no bashing.

People bash when they are out of ammo ... it's happening to Josie quite often these days.

Willie doesn't want to bash because he chose the topic, but the trick is that he wanted to focus on "change" and he didn't open a thread to focus on the "reform" that Palin is supposed to bring.

 

[Willie99]

People bash when they are out of ammo ... it's happening to Josie quite often these days.

Willie doesn't want to bash because he chose the topic, but the trick is that he wanted to focus on "change" and he didn't open a thread to focus on the "reform" that Palin is supposed to bring.

I consider change and reform to be the same Cincy, how about you? Did you miss the part where I said McCain ain't going to bring change?

"trick" :lol:

I shoot straight dude

BTW: nice bedfellows you're choosing nowadays

 

[Willie99]

You can't discuss anything without bashing. It's kind of weird that you are requesting a thread with no bashing.

I'm objective when having a discussion with objective people.

 

[C-Gold]

I agree 100% with the OP. Ron Paul was the real candidate of change, who wanted to drastically reduce the size and scope of government, and abolish the Fed.

RobFunk- Obama will NOT reduce taxes or make life easier on 95% of working familes ( and families who don't work). All of his spending will rise inflation, and the regulation of the energy industries will increase gas prices, and utility prices. He will drastically increase government spending, and we will all pay for it.

 

[realestatepro]

People bash when they are out of ammo ... it's happening to Josie quite often these days.

Willie doesn't want to bash because he chose the topic, but the trick is that he wanted to focus on "change" and he didn't open a thread to focus on the "reform" that Palin is supposed to bring.

100% true.

 

[RobFunk]

RobFunk- Obama will NOT reduce taxes or make life easier on 95% of working familes .

I believe you are incorrect sir.

--------------------------------------

Obama said that if elected, he would:

•Eliminate capital gains taxes for small businesses.

•Cut taxes for 95 percent of "working families."

http://www.bizjournals.com/stlouis/stories/2008/08/25/daily92.html?ana=from_rss

Obama is all about the middle class, something the republicans could care less about.

 

[cincy_]

BTW: nice bedfellows you're choosing nowadays

That's because I put "America First" ... maybe that's why.

... but in general, you're very corrrect in your original post ... they come up with these gimmicks and words that are just meant to keep the MEAT of the discussion off the table.

As for calling you out to bust your balls a little, Willie ... stop pouting about it ... you're not one of the name-calling loonies on this forum ... except you do pay special attention to the 9/11 conspiracy.

 

[realestatepro]

Obama will spend but spend in areas that will help society as a whole. This war is sending our great grandchildren into debt. The left understands that a nation flourishes when each individual flourishes. Personally I'm not huge on Obama. He is a politician just like them all. I think he'll be bought out like all the rest if in office. But to counter that, he will be a 120% improvement on Bush and be better than McCain. It is like taking the lesser of two evils.

 

[RobFunk]

Obama will spend but spend in areas that will help society as a whole. This war is sending our great grandchildren into debt. The left understands that a nation flourishes when each individual flourishes. Personally I'm not huge on Obama. He is a politician just like them all. I think he'll be bought out like all the rest if in office. But to counter that, he will be a 120% improvement on Bush and be better than McCain. It is like taking the lesser of two evils.

Correct. He will spend to reduce oil dependancy which will lower the cost of gas, create well paying jobs that can't be outsourced which reduces hand outs, etc. It makes sense to me. The guy is pretty smart, at least give him that.