THE DIFFERENCE BETWEEN CONSERVATIVES & LIBERALS (Or, What I Learned Raising My Childr

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<TABLE cellPadding=2 width="55%" border=0><TBODY><TR><TD align=middle>THE DIFFERENCE BETWEEN
CONSERVATIVES & LIBERALS

(Or, What I Learned Raising My Children) </TD></TR><TR><TD align=middle>Jerome Murray, Ph.D.
</TD></TR></TBODY></TABLE>

<HR width="50%">The difference between Liberals and Conservatives is not one of socioeconomic status, intelligence, or education.

They are found at all social levels, and they certainly don't differ in the caliber of their compassion. While there are extremes on either side to abjure, in the main both ideologies have concern for the welfare of others. The dissimilarity is not in their regard for people, but how best to express that regard. The difference is method, not motivation. It's like raising children; most parents love their children, but not every parent knows how to express that love so their children are happy and productive. The parental response to children's needs can make the difference between raising spoiled, demanding children, or self-reliant, contributing adults. The political response to people's needs has a similar effect.

The political philosophy of most people is an inheritance from their parents. They are Liberal or Conservative because their parents were. They have only a rudimentary idea of the difference between the two ideologies. Unwilling or unable to deliberate their choice they accept hackneyed definitions. A common and stereotypical depiction of Liberals and Conservatives is, "Liberals care about people while Conservatives care only about themselves." Another tired maxim has it "Liberals are Labor, Conservatives are Business." This simplistic caricature of the philosophical differences between Liberals and Conservatives is inaccurate and intellectually lazy. If the essence of distinction between the political principles was precisely understood it would shock the citizenry. Many Liberals are Conservatives and don't know it, and some Conservatives should be Liberals.

<CENTER><TABLE cellSpacing=0 cellPadding=10 width="75%" border=1><TBODY><TR><TD>In general, Conservatives believe in rewarding those who are productive and penalizing those who are not, while Liberals believe in penalizing those who are productive and rewarding those who are not.</TD></TR></TBODY></TABLE></CENTER>​
LIBERALS DO THINGS FOR PEOPLE

Liberals respond to human need by creating social programs to do things for people. If someone is hungry, give them food; if they are homeless, give them a house. Liberals epitomize government as a benevolent parent whose purpose is to make life easier for their children by doing things for them. "But wait a minute," you say, "doing things for people seems generous and humane. What's wrong with it?"

It Creates Dependency.

What's wrong is that doing things for people cripples them by fostering dependency. People who have things done for them never learn the skills they need to be self-reliant and are dependent on someone else to take care of them.

An old Hindu proverb says, "If you want to feed a man for a day give him a loaf of bread. If you want to feed him for a lifetime teach him to make bread." Liberals respond compassionately to hunger by giving bread, never realizing they are crippling the recipient. This short-term benevolence stifles independence by teaching the person to rely on someone else to provide for him. True compassion considers the long-term effects of intervention and chooses that form of intervention that empowers the person to take care of himself.

Dependency Breeds Resentment.

Humanitarian souls are perplexed to discover one of the ironies of charity. Once dependent on another to survive, the dependent person resents his benefactor. He learns to resent the one on whom he is dependent because dependency implies a superior-inferior relationship. This is not always incidental. Acts of short-sighted charity are frequently motivated by the unconscious need of the one dispensing it to feel superior to the one receiving it. A relationship characterized by a fusion of hunger and hostility is inevitable.

The dependent person also becomes resentful when his needs are not met to his satisfaction. Taught that he "deserves" to be taken care of, he resents it when he is not. Since he has learned to hand responsibility for meeting his needs to another he resents the other when those needs are not met.

Doing Things for People Perpetuates Dependency.

Not only does paternalistic assistance create dependency - it perpetuates it. The acceptance of assistance too frequently results in the abdication of self-reliance. Park Rangers at national and state parks warn against feeding the animals. One reason is that the animals learn to rely on being fed and quit feeding themselves. Acts of benevolence only providing for immediate needs reinforces dependency unless coincident with independence empowering intervention.

I once was asked by county government to evaluate a single woman with nine children who was pregnant with her tenth. Each child had a different father. County officials thought she didn't understand about contraception. She understood. This street-wise lady laughed as she said, "Hell, I get a hundred dollars a month for each child. I don't take care of any of them, they're all farmed out to relatives. Every time I need a raise in pay I have another child." However noble the motivation, it was witless. In effect, she was being paid to be irresponsible.

A psychological truism says "Rewarded behavior is learned behavior." When irresponsible behavior leads to a financial reward (governmental dole) irresponsible behavior will proliferate.

It is ironic that citizens in a country founded on self-reliance and independence get angry because government won't take care of them. Our ancestors came to this country to escape excessive governmental control. They believed they could take care of themselves better than the government could. While they fought a war to throw off of the yoke of political patronage and secure their right to self-reliance and independence the inheritors of their legacy complain that government doesn't do enough for them. Even more ironic is the demand that government tax the affluent more so their dole can be increased. What results, is nothing more than mutual slavery. As further assistance is accepted, greater dependency ensues. With greater dependency comes increased need and the productive segment of society becomes locked in a symbiotic relationship with the non-productive.

Dependency Destroys Self-respect.

Doing things for people also destroys self-esteem and self-respect. Self-esteem is the belief you are worth living successfully and self-respect is the belief you are living successfully. A feeling of competence is essential to both. Giving people things instead of letting them earn them precludes the development of competence. Without the perception of competence and the belief that one is capable of managing one's life there can be no self-respect or self-esteem. Both are essential to getting off the dole and becoming a productive person.

Well intentioned, but illogical efforts to help the disadvantaged would be funny if not so tragic. A city in Northern California established a city garden to provide vegetables for needy families. They cajoled donations from community businesses to buy land, seeds, and equipment. They solicited volunteers from the local citizenry to work the fields. They appealed for volunteers to pack and deliver the food. A noble gesture on the face of it. But by failing to involve the recipients of this largesse in the process they overlooked a valuable opportunity. Of how much greater service to the needy if they let those who benefited till, plant, weed, and harvest the crop. An opportunity to develop self-reliance and personal pride was lost.

Doing Things For Others Is Socially Divisive.

Doing things for people divides groups into "Us" and "Them." It reinforces the fallacy there is some intrinsic difference between the productive and unproductive. It perpetuates the idea the "Haves" and the "Have-nots" represent different types of people instead of representing different levels of effort. This belief creates frustration and impotence. The belief that success is an equation of time, effort, and ability, and anyone can aspire to it, creates hope and opportunity. Doing things for people is not participatory democracy it is benevolent dictatorship. Liberals despise a social caste system, yet their actions create it.

CONSERVATIVES DO THINGS WITH PEOPLE

Conservatives believe in social programs which permit people to earn the benefits they receive and which foster self-reliance. Social programs emphasizing a participatory investment by the person benefiting are more effective than programs only requiring an investment from the benefactor. Without personal investment there can be no sense of accomplishment, no sense of pride, and no sense of ownership. Doing things for people cripples them, while doing things with people enables them. To be effective, social programs designed to raise the standard of living for people must follow certain guidelines.

Reject Entitlement - Endorse Empowerment.

The concept of entitlement is based on the assumption "someone else is responsible for my welfare." In psychological parlance that represents an "external locus of control." That is the belief that your life is controlled by circumstances external to yourself. It is a belief associated with low self-esteem, depression, suicide, and other undesirable outcomes. An "internal locus of control" otherwise known as personal responsibility and reflected in the statement "If it is to be, it's up to me" produces a robust mental health and a productive citizen. Any social program not confirming and requiring personal responsibility is destined to fail. Empowering people to take responsibility for their own success and happiness should be the focus of social intervention.

A fitting rule of thumb is, "Don't give someone anything you want him to respect - let him earn it." In general, we respect other people's property less than we respect our own. The obligation to earn what one needs for a better standard of living leads to a sense of ownership. What is earned is appreciated and respected. To understand this, just take a look at government housing projects. The graffiti and state of disrepair is mute testimony to a lack of respect for self or property. The politics of entitlement simply doesn't work because it robs people of the one thing they need to become productive - a sense of ownership. Things that are given can never truly be owned. If you give someone a gift, it's yours. If you let him earn it, he owns it. Liberals believe in a "hand out," Conservatives believe in a "hand up."

Don't Remove Consequences.

In a misguided effort to safeguard their children thoughtless parents intervene between behavior and consequence. They provide rationalizations, excuses, apologies, and in general nullify the one factor that has the power to modify behavior - consequences. Removing consequences removes the opportunity to learn cause and effect relationships. Parents who systematically protect children from the consequences of their actions develop children with no impulse control. A government that legislates away consequences, or worse provides benefits in place of consequences, creates the very problem they are trying to correct - the problem of irresponsible behavior.

A mother whose seventeen year old son had beaten her, virtually destroyed the house with drunken parties, stolen her car, and been arrested for using and dealing drugs complained to me he was uncontrollable. She explained she had been passively resigned to his excesses and criminality because she feared his reprisal. She had just returned from the courts where she had successfully argued to have her son released into her custody.

I asked with apparent sincerity, "Does he drink from bottles labeled poison when he's thirsty? Does he walk in front of semi-trucks on the freeway because he wants to get to the other side? Does he step off ten-story buildings because it is a quicker way to get to the bottom?"

"Of course not," she retorted to each question.

"Then it sounds to me," I said "He is perfectly able to control his behavior when the consequences are sure and certain. It's only when the consequences are ambiguous or missing he is uncontrollable."

What can be expected from people when the consequences of irresponsible and foolish behavior are removed, or worse, rewarded? How will they learn the relationship between their behavior and the consequences in their life? It's true not everyone learns from consequences, but no one learns without them.

Make Assistance Conditional on Life-Affirming Behavior.

Requiring life-affirming behaviors from people is a sign of love and acceptance, not indifference and rejection.

<CENTER><TABLE borderColor=#800000 cellSpacing=0 cellPadding=10 width=389 border=1><TBODY><TR><TD width=365 bgColor=#c0c0c0>The focus of any social program should be to strengthen people, not to placate and appease them in order to secure their vote.

</TD></TR></TBODY></TABLE></CENTER>​
The old parental adage "This is for your own good" is appropriate for government in dealing with some adults. "I am denying you a free ride and requiring you to earn what you get, for your own good."

Emphasize to the needy person he is part of the family and you love him, and that is why you require his personal investment in the program designed to help him. As you provide assistance he must reciprocate by helping himself. To allow social programs that do not demand a reciprocal and equal contribution by those benefiting is not an act of caring. If you care about a person you don't support behaviors leading to his deterioration. You only support conduct leading to his betterment. As much as it may be painful to both benefactor and recipient external involvement in a person’s life must promote the ultimate good of the individual, not merely the removal of immediate discomfort.

Government's rightful purpose is to defend its citizens from external and internal threats. Government’s purpose is to protect its citizens, not provide for them. Government should only do for people what they are unable to do for themselves. The true function of government is not to give things to its citizens, but to remove the barriers preventing citizens from giving those things to themselves.

Live A Life You Would Be Proud To Have Them Imitate.

The kindest thing you can do for the "disadvantaged" is to live a life you would be proud to have them imitate and do nothing preventing them from doing the same. Prove by your own success it can be done and encourage them to do it. Don't feel guilty because you enjoy the fruit of your labor, consider yourself a role model. Benevolence isn't giving to others for free what it took you hard effort to accomplish. Benevolence is extending the same opportunities and privileges to others combined with the same obligations and responsibilities.

Opportunity and privilege are not free. They have costs. The cost of opportunity is obligation and the cost of privilege is responsibility. "To whom much is given, of him is much required."

 
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Enough said about the validity of this clown:

In general, Conservatives believe in rewarding those who are productive and penalizing those who are not, while Liberals believe in penalizing those who are productive and rewarding those who are not.

This above theory goes right out the ol window when ya look at Bush: he rewards those who are incompetent and runs off those that are ...
 

bushman
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Conservatives:
Don't allow them to abort, let them die in the gutter like vermin.

Liberals:
Let them abort if they want to, create chances to make something out of those that don't.
 

bushman
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Opportunity and privilege are not free. They have costs. The cost of opportunity is obligation and the cost of privilege is responsibility. "To whom much is given, of him is much required."
:>Grin>:>Grin>

What a complete steaming pile of patronising bullshit.

(just ask GWB)
 

There's always next year, like in 75, 90-93, 99 &
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It's truly amazing how many doctors simply do not know their asses from the gaping empty space between GameFarce's ears.
 
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Let me paint the real difference:

If I had posted this ... Jdeuce or bblight would have attacked me directly and called me names, a liar and a Traitor to this country ...

The pattern is very consistent: the name callings and the personal attacks best defindes the Republican party ... look at Bush's pattern of spreading lies about McCain & Anne Richards and the embarrassing way they ran their campaign in 2004
 

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Doc, I was surrounded by babies yesterday who didn't do nearly as much whining and crying as you do - and all of ther messy diapers proved that they weren't as full of crap as you are!

You were brought up by a nice middle class family in a nice middle class neighborhood and you went to a nice middle class college. You graduated from your nice middle class college and got a nice middle class hack government job working for the state.

The state turned Republican and you lost your nice job!

You blame Bush for your problems, but he isn't the problem, you are! Get a life - the cushy days are over and you have to work for a living just like the rest of us.

Grow up and quit being so negative! Real work is good for the body and the soul!

As for lander and eek - the truth is the truth - this comparison between American conservatism and liberalism is about as accurate as I'ver ever seen. Please tell me where it's wrong!
 

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The article has it pretty much nailed. My favorite description of leftists is from the unabomber:



-----------------------

15. Leftists tend to hate anything that has an image of being strong, good and successful. They hate America, they hate Western civilization, they hate white males, they hate rationality. The reasons that leftists give for hating the West, etc. clearly do not correspond with their real motives. They SAY they hate the West because it is warlike, imperialistic, sexist, ethnocentric and so forth, but where these same faults appear in socialist countries or in primitive cultures, the leftist finds excuses for them, or at best he GRUDGINGLY admits that they exist; whereas he ENTHUSIASTICALLY points out (and often greatly exaggerates) these faults where they appear in Western civilization. Thus it is clear that these faults are not the leftist's real motive for hating America and the West. He hates America and the West because they are strong and successful.

16. Words like "self-confidence," "self-reliance," "initiative", "enterprise," "optimism," etc. play little role in the liberal and leftist vocabulary. The leftist is anti-individualistic, pro-collectivist. He wants society to solve everyone's needs for them, take care of them. He is not the sort of person who has an inner sense of confidence in his own ability to solve his own problems and satisfy his own needs. The leftist is antagonistic to the concept of competition because, deep inside, he feels like a loser.

Full text:

http://www.thecourier.com/manifest.htm
 

bushman
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What can be expected from people when the consequences of irresponsible and foolish behavior are removed, or worse, rewarded? How will they learn the relationship between their behavior and the consequences in their life?
The article is a huge steaming pile of patronising drivel and could be applied in a myriad of circumstances.

This quote alone could be applied to idiots like Bush and his buddies who suffer none of the consequences from their decisions, and reap huge rewards irrespective of whether their decisions create success or failure.

Gie ma brain a break pal.
Save this corporate communist nonsense for your employees.
smile.gif
 

Is that a moonbat in my sites?
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eek - How can you sit in your UK home. some 3000 miles away from tyhe US and write as though you know what our exclusively American cullture is really all about?

You can play your little word games, but you can't actually refute the article, can you.

Every statement in that article is accurate 0- it goes to the root of the two opposingt ideologies and says it like it really is - it talks about personal responsibilty, morals, ethics and honor as the foundations of any strong society, and it defines those policies that undermine our uniquely American culture.

You don't have to like it, but it's the truth!
 

bushman
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Whatever I say won't change your mindset, your brain has been removed and replaced with a procedures manual and various company gobbledygook.
Hey, it worked for you, so it must be good for us all....
You are the kind of person the Communist Party or any Corporation needs to survive.

Those of us with a teeny bit more imagination and independence will take a raincheck, thankyou-very-much.


The acticle itself is a classic, filled with half-truths non-specific verb twisting patronising innuendo that reads just like those pamphlets and articles produced in the Union of Soviet Socialist Republics for sixty years.
(The sole difference being which side of the coin it 'represents'.)

But hey, whatever floats your boat comrade BB.
 
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bblight:

for your information I have been self employed since I got out of college ... so give feed your lameass crap about me blaming anyone for anything

I have a problem with the Commander in Chief using lies to commit our brave kids into a hellhole .... with no gameplan how to get out of this mess .. in a war funded by the USA and that tab is running over 300 billion and counting

Tired of the Mafia style run govt ... the daily lies and the rewarding of promotions to incompetent personnel like Rice

You seem to get your rocks off on the body count coming back from Iraq ... I HAVE NEVER ONCE HEARD YOU COMPLAIN ABOUT OUR KIDS DYING -- NOT ONCE!!!

bblight, you ARE THE TRAITOR TO THIS COUNTRY ... again, you HAVE NEVER SHOWED CONCERN FOR OUR BRAVE KIDS DYING IN IRAQ ... then again, President Cheney and this adminstration takes the same stance ...
 

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Doc, so you admit that you're a middle class white boy from a middle class family who lived in a middle class neighborhood and went to a middle class college. You've never served in the Armed Forces of your country at all. And you're a liberal Democrat.

I could never have figured that out on my own!

Doc - You hate Bush - everything that you write is based from that single fact! ou lie, exagerate and embellish just about everything that you write about Bush or his administarion.

You always talk about What Bush did toy Richards, but what about the what she did to him? Richards was a one term governor who did a terrible job and oversaw the transistion of Texas from predominately Democrat to a bastion for the Republicans. Following is some text from the speach she gave at the 1988 Democrat convention

"Good evening, ladies and gentlemen. Buenas noches, mis amigos.

I'm delighted to be here with you this evening, because after listening to George Bush all these years, I figured you needed to know what a real Texas accent sounds like.

Twelve years ago Barbara Jordan, another Texas woman, Barbara made the keynote address to this convention, and two women in a hundred and sixty years is about par for the course.

But, if you give us a chance, we can perform. After all, Ginger Rogers did everything that Fred Astaire did. She just did it backwards and in high heels.

I want to announce to this Nation that in a little more than 100 days, the [size=-1]Reagan-Meese-Deaver-Nofziger-Poindexter-North-Weinberger-Watt-Gorsuch-Lavelle-Stockman-Haig-Bork-Noriega-George Bush [era] will be over![/size]

[size=-1]You know, tonight I feel a little like I did when I played basketball in the 8th grade. I thought I looked real cute in my uniform. And then I heard a boy yell from the bleachers, "Make that basket, Birdlegs!"[/size]



And my greatest fear is that same guy is somewhere out there in the audience tonight, and he's going to cut me down to size. Because where I grew up there really wasn’t much tolerance for self-importance, people who put on airs."








And the Democrats can't figure out where they went wrong?








Hey Doc - I think that you and Ann are both good examples of what a Democrat should be. Please keep up the good works!




















Hey eek - are you in the juice again? You aren't making any sense.
 
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bblight:

I have voted both ways (a terminology outside of politics I am sure you can relate to!) ....

I do not care for what Bush stands for ... if you do, go for it ... your type was slamming Clinton 8 yrs straight, 24 hrs per day and now find if offensive when anyone questions the actions and moral stances of this clown in office??

I saw Bush in Texas as governor .. a man who has no morals and whose entire life has been built on lies and having Daddy or someone else clean up his mess ...

If you are comfortable with the direction this country is headed under Bush, go for it
 

bushman
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Hey eek - are you in the juice again? You aren't making any sense.



Between Doc calling you a Nazi and me calling you a Communist corporate andriod I'm not surprised you're confused.
smile.gif

....and then you reverting to that old management classic:​
'Doh. What are you talking about.'​
saves you actually having to think about stuff.​

The cartoon strip 'Dilbert' might give you a few management pointers btw​
It will save you a fortune on any of those daft courses.​
one for you BB
smile.gif
 
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There's always next year, like in 75, 90-93, 99 &
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Blight,
The middle-class upbringing argument is a bunch of bollocks.
 
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I simple stated that Bush is a member of the same Satantic Cult group that Hitler belonged to ...

bblight certainly would make a good little Storm Trooper though as Bush certainly has him convinced that nothing could go wrong under the guidance of one of the most brilliant leaders in the past 100 yrs
 

Is that a moonbat in my sites?
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And the posts of each one of you proves my point!

You all avoid the subject, that libaralism is destructive while conservatism is constructive.
Liberalism:
1. Creates Dependancy
2. That Dependanct creates resentment
3. Develops into two groups- us, the have-nots and them, the haves.
4. Dependancy perpetuates dependancy
5. Dependancy destroys self respect
The great society has proven the point with multiple generations being dependant on the government - the dependants often turn to drugs because their self respect has been destroyed by that very dependancy - the drug addict turns to crime, neglecting family and community, ending iup in prison - their children end up being dependant, repeating and perpetuating the same ugly situation.

Conservatism:
1. Rejects government dependancy and fosters self empowerment
2. Develops expectations and creates consequences for not living up to the expectations.
3. Demands certain behaviors for government assistance
4. Helps develop social and familial standards.
A person gets a job, and earns their pay - they feel good about themselves because they "did it by themselves", this raises their level of expectations for themselves and their family. Personal esteem is enhanced and participation in family and community occurs as a result.

I look at many posters on this board, I see the hate coming from some of the people who are from the left and it reinforces my belief that happy people tend to be conservatives and pessimists tend to be liberals. Doc is a perfect example of this theory.

Either way, conservatism is superior because it perpetuates self esteem and rewards merit, while liberalism perpetutes envy and rewards the non-productive.
 
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bblight:

Do ya inhale the same strain of coke that Bush used to inhale?

I used to vote Republican ... I have been self employed for over 2 decades ... I dont target Repubs and call em names because their viewpt is different

I changed once Bush 41 took control .. he is like his kid in that he was completely out of touch with reality ... I guess like Father, Like son ...

The shift for me occurred with King of the Drug Users started blaming everthing on Clinton and the rise of Coulter and Hannity made me realize the Repubs had indeed become a modern day version of the Nazi party ... all superior they claim and if you disagree you are Anti-American and a threat to the security of this country

You and your twin bro jdeuce are prime examples of what I am talking about ... since day one you have done nothing but call em a liar on every post and are always the first one to take shots at me

I dont care if you are black or white ... jewish or catholic ... rich or poor ... I dont judge folks by the model of the car they drive or the number of credit cards they have in their wallet ...

I have said I respect Gameface in a recent thread .. hey, maybe he has a difft viewpt than me but has never called me names .. you are the King of attacking individuals personally and are the model of individual that would give Rove a stiff penis

Again, I find it funny how NOT ONCE has bblight posted his concerns for our kids that are dying in a hellhole that Bush sent them to based on lies and no obvious exit strategy

The nice thing is to see the growing number of folks that in this forum that find your attack style to be immature and disgusting ... I have never attacked you personally except when you started your name calling crap

Do I hate Bush? No .. I hate what the man stands for and the con job himself and Rove sold to the folks like yourself that are either incapable of reading and dediciding issues for yourself without having to turn to Drug User Limbaugh for daily "inspiration"

Again, bblight, any reason we have not seen ONE POST in which you actually expressed concern over the welfare of our kids dying in a war that you so much support?
 

Is that a moonbat in my sites?
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Doc - you were a Republican? Now that's a lie!
No republican could be so introverted and exocentric - it just isn't in us to be that way - you do have the perfect personality to be a liberal - an ugly outlook on life and totally intolerant for anyone who disagrees with your brand of totalitarianism.

You have only one agenda - and it's to be as anti-Bush as you can be. If you aren't a government hack, then you must have lost a hack contract with the Texas government when Bush took over as governor. Nothing else explains the hate you feel toward Bush.
 

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