The 800 pound donkey in the GOP debate

[Dafinch]

https://www.dailykos.com/stories/20...-donkey-in-the-GOP-debate?detail=emailclassic

Donkey? No matter. EAT it, Righty bitches, assume the position and get ready to bite that pillow-again-in just under a year.

By Jon Perr
Tuesday Nov 10, 2015 2:31 PM PST

On Tuesday night, Fox Business will host the next debate between the 2016 GOP presidential contenders. All involved are hoping to avoid a repeat of the last such event, the CNBC fiasco which left the moderators embarrassed and the campaigns whining. But while the Republicans have been fretting about the debate format, questions, opening and closing statements, bathroom breaks and even the room temperature, the GOP White House wannabees have a much bigger problem. As a spate of recent analyses once again confirmed, the U.S. economy almost always does better under Democratic presidents.
Going back to Herbert Hoover, the economy grew faster, job creation accelerated, incomes expanded and stock prices jumped higher when a Democrat sat in the Oval Office. And as the New Democrat Network documented last month, the last four presidencies are no exception (see chart above):

Republican Presidencies have led to recessions and larger deficits; Democratic Presidencies have led to growth, job gains and lower annual deficits. In short, the Democratic approach to the economy over the past generation has worked. The Republican approach hasn't. And this dramatic difference becomes even more pronounced when one considers the how shockingly wrong the GOP's bet the house predictions of the failure of both the 1993 Clinton budget and the "job-killing" ACA have been.​

Even leaving aside for the moment today's low energy prices and the dramatic reduction in the ranks of the uninsured thanks to the Affordable Care Act, Bill Clinton and Barack Obama literally beat the Bushes:

Job Growth: Over the Clinton and Obama Presidencies, over 30m new net jobs were created. Over the two Bush Presidencies, 3.5m. On a yearly basis, perhaps a more fair comparison, the two Democrats have produced jobs at 7 times the rate of the two Bushes: 2.1m vs. 300,000 per year.​

Unemployment Rate: Both Democratic Presidents saw more than a 3% point [drop] in the unemployment rate during their terms. The Bushes saw increases in the unemployment rate by more than 2% and 3% points respectively.​

Numbers like these pose a problem for the Republican field trying to win over the Fox Business audience. After all, Jeb Bush has promised to deliver four percent annual economic growth over his presidency. Sadly, no President named Bush achieved that figure even once over 12 years. As for Marco Rubio, who claimed that "jobs are created by the private sector" and that "the government doesn't create jobs outside of the government," there is another small problem. The only jobs created by the last Republican president were government jobs. As Paul Krugman explained with a single chart:

During the 2012 campaign, Mitt Romney and his conservative amen corner repeatedly claimed "Obama made the economy worse." It's bad enough for Republicans that their fraud was easily debunked at the time. As a new analysis from Alan Blinder and Mark Zandi showed, the combined federal efforts to rescue the American economy from its greatest collapse since 1929 "dramatically reduced the severity and length of the meltdown that began in 2008; its effects on jobs, unemployment, and budget deficits; and its lasting impact on today's economy." The impact of the measures taken in 2008 and 2009, including the Troubled Asset Relief Program (TARP), the $800 billion Obama stimulus program, Obama's auto bailout and the Federal Reserve's "quantitative easing," is simply staggering. Without those policy responses--almost all of which were opposed by Congressional Republicans--Blinder and Zandi estimate:

• The peak-to-trough decline in real gross domestic product (GDP), which was barely over 4%, would have been close to a stunning 14%;
  
• The economy would have contracted for more than three years, more than twice as long as it did;
  
• More than 17 million jobs would have been lost, about twice the actual number.
  
• Unemployment would have peaked at just under 16%, rather than the actual 10%;
  
• The budget deficit would have grown to more than 20 percent of GDP, about double its actual peak of 10 percent, topping off at $2.8 trillion in fiscal 2011.
  
  
  

Now, this isn't the first time Bill Clinton's former head of the Council of Economic Advisers and John McCain's 2008 economic adviser touted the success of the stimulus. In the summer of 2010 the duo similarly concluded, "We find that its effects on real GDP, jobs, and inflation are huge, and probably averted what could have been called Great Depression 2.0." But Blinder and Zandi had plenty company from the overwhelming consensus of American economists including the nonpartisan Congressional Budget Office (CBO).
As the Washington Post reported in June 2012, the House Budget Committee heard testimony from the CBO chief answering a simple question: did the $787 billion Obama stimulus work? Unfortunately for Republican propagandists, Elmendorf clearly refuted Mitt Romney's claim that the American Recovery and Reinvestment Act (ARRA) was "the largest one-time careless expenditure of government money in American history."

Under questioning from skeptical Republicans, the director of the nonpartisan (and widely respected) Congressional Budget Office was emphatic about the value of the 2009 stimulus. And, he said, the vast majority of economists agree. In a survey conducted by the University of Chicago Booth School of Business, 80 percent of economic experts agreed that, because of the stimulus, the U.S. unemployment rate was lower at the end of 2010 than it would have been otherwise.
"Only 4 percent disagreed or strongly disagreed," CBO Director Douglas Elmendorf told the House Budget Committee. "That," he added, "is a distinct minority."
​

Not content with that response, Kansas Republican Rep. Tim Huelskamp tried again. "Where did Washington mess up?" Huelskamp demanded. "Because you're saying most economists think it should've worked. It didn't." As the Post's Lori Montgomery detailed, Elmendorf drove home the point:

Most economists not only think it should have worked; they think it did work, Elmendorf replied. CBO's own analysis found that the package added as many as 3.3 million jobs to the economy during the second quarter of 2010, and may have prevented the nation from lapsing back into recession.​

As it turns out, the Obama stimulus would have even more effective had it not been offset by draconian spending cuts by state and local government. By May 2013, the Hamilton Institute estimated those austerity policies cost 2.2 American million jobs and resulted in the slowest recovery since World War II. In April 2012, the Economic Policy Institute explained:

The current recovery is the only one that has seen public-sector losses over its first 31 months...If public-sector employment had grown since June 2009 by the average amount it grew in the three previous recoveries (2.8 percent) instead of shrinking by 2.5 percent, there would be 1.2 million more public-sector jobs in the U.S. economy today. In addition, these extra public-sector jobs would have helped preserve about 500,000 private-sector jobs.​

Even with these setbacks from the states, President Obama like Bill Clinton easily outperformed his Republican predecessor. And Obama did it even as he cut annual budget deficits by two-thirds and kept spending flat since he first took the oath of office.

Regardless, the United States has outperformed most of its global economic competitors, especially in Europe where austerity was the choice of policymakers. As Paul Krugman summed it up in April, the Republican austerians here at home still need to learn their lesson:

Since the global turn to austerity in 2010, every country that introduced significant austerity has seen its economy suffer, with the depth of the suffering closely related to the harshness of the austerity. In late 2012, the IMF's chief economist, Olivier Blanchard, went so far as to issue what amounted to a mea culpa: although his organization never bought into the notion that austerity would actually boost economic growth, the IMF now believes that it massively understated the damage that spending cuts inflict on a weak economy.​

As for the likes of Marco Rubio, Ben Carson, Jeb Bush, Donald Trump and company prepare to battle it out in Milwaukee, the media may focus on credit card expenses, Baby Hitlers and who stabbed or hammered who. For her part, tonight's Fox Business moderator Maria Bartiromo promised to steer clear of the pitfalls of the last one:

"After that [CNBC] debate, I realized, I knew my marching orders. It was clearer than ever what my marching orders are, and that is to help the viewer, help the voter better understand what each candidate's plan is; is it a realistic plan, can it work and how is it different from the next guy or gal, and that's what I plan to focus on."​

But if she really wants to inform her viewers, Bartiromo should ask the assembled Republicans why voters should believe any of them when it comes to the economy. After all, the 800-pound donkey in the room is that Democratic presidents, Barack Obama included, consistently outperform their Republican counterparts.


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Jon Perr
Nov 10 · 02:31:57 PM Recommend 111












[new] That’s why they have shifted the whole framing to ‘Labor Force Participation Rate’, because they plain have no ammo when it comes to job creation, stock market, mortgage interest, oil price, oil consumption, etc, etc.


icemilkcoffee
Nov 10 · 02:46:33 PM
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[new] “Labor Force Participation Rate” the new dog whistle for Lazy useless minorities ,immigrates ,poor and students and entitlement program recipients which we want to starve , underpay and leave without shelter until they join our new “Forced Participation labor rate plan”


windsong01 — icemilkcoffee
Nov 10 · 08:50:21 PM
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[new] LFPR drop significant component due to demographics. Retired baby boomers. Sorry repubs.


pupdude — windsong01
Nov 11 · 10:46:15 AM
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[new] Baby Boomers who could finally retire with out loosing their heal care coverage due to pre existing conditions by finally quitting their jobs.


rogubfl — pupdude
Nov 11 · 01:43:09 PM
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[new] Exactly!
Lousy bunch of moochers…
:-J
It amazes me that the Democrats can't even get the Republicans to stop all this talk of “entitlement reform”. They should be jumping down the throat of every Republican they ever hear use the phrase.
And yet they sit there blankly, composing their no-doubt-articulate replies.


tallen387 — rogubfl
Nov 15 · 01:05:27 PM
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[new] It is just plain pathetic that they really “believe” that concentrating wealth at the top is an economy. It’s just Feudalism.
Or worse, that there’s a “place at the top” for them. That’s just delusion.
There is only the top (with a very, very small number of important people), and the bottom (the rest of us). Nothing in between.
Once they have taken most of the wealth, what would make anyone think they would share the crumbs?


Menken lives — icemilkcoffee
Nov 11 · 01:11:33 PM
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[new] They MUST support their pimps like the Krotch brothers


RoundPonda — Menken lives
Nov 11 · 09:17:00 PM
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[new] Top 0.1% ownes nearly as much as the bottom 90%.
The Walton family ownes more than the bottom 42%.
Nearly all growth since 2008 went to the top 1%.
2013 to 15, the 14 richest persons increased net worth $157b.
1980 to now, mean CEO pay increased 937%. How'bout yours?
Spotted Mule


spottedmule — Menken lives
Nov 12 · 02:46:58 PM
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[new] Hard to remember, I think it’s gone up about 25%, but I definitely felt I had more money in 1980. I think Reagan also lied about the actual rate of inflation over those years. Maybe that glib phrase, “excluding the volatile food and energy sectors”, covered up more Republican sins than we thought.


tallen387 — spottedmule
Nov 15 · 01:12:26 PM
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[new] Well, they paid an economist to say it, so it must be economics, right?


tallen387 — Menken lives
Nov 15 · 01:06:11 PM
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[new] That
Is a big donkey. Mammoth, even.


i saw an old tree today
Nov 10 · 02:48:12 PM
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[new] Wikipedia knows all! Donkeys range from 180 to 1,060 lb (American Mammoth jackstock) so an 800 pound donkey would not be that unusual


la motocycliste — i saw an old tree today
Nov 10 · 03:15:18 PM
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[new] I have 2 large standards, about 600 lb each. Silly me. Most people seem to have minis and small standards. Mammoths are so much trouble, not a lot of people have or use them, but if you do, they can haul anything. I saw one once hauling an entire pine tree.

i saw an old tree today — la motocycliste
Nov 10 · 03:32:28 PM
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[new] meant to source of course


i saw an old tree today — i saw an old tree today
Nov 10 · 03:34:36 PM
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[new] I would love to have a small standard jenny! Problem is no place to keep her.


la motocycliste — i saw an old tree today
Nov 10 · 03:38:06 PM
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[new] They can live to 60. You’re in it for the long haul.
Donkey emoticon = : )
Donkey in the wind emoticon = : )


i saw an old tree today — la motocycliste
Nov 10 · 03:41:08 PM
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[new] I see myself at the age of 90, being pulled in my wheelchair by my patient and forgiving donkey. Since my brain is addled at this point, I think I am racing Laguna Seca, two bike lengths ahead of Jason DiSalvo. Go Donkey!


la motocycliste — i saw an old tree today
Nov 10 · 09:27:23 PM
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[new] That is a big-ass donkey!


gardnerhill — i saw an old tree today
Nov 10 · 04:27:02 PM
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[new] Here’s the rest of this story, mammoths were brought here by Washington and Jefferson (true! gifts from the King of Spain) to breed big, honking mules (think Borax team) to tame these wonderful lands (which by the way, they did.) The western burro is a leftover from the Spanish inquistion southern and west coast invasions, maybe a third the size of the largest of mammoths. I’m probably hijacking, apologies.


i saw an old tree today — gardnerhill
Nov 10 · 04:33:32 PM
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[new] Cool info!!
I’ve seen a herd of wild burros and seen more than one standard donkey, but never a mammoth. Very cool.


high uintas — i saw an old tree today
Nov 10 · 07:14:37 PM
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[new] Don’t be silly, not a hijack, I come here to learn. That photo is amazing!


sidnora — i saw an old tree today
Nov 11 · 04:07:35 AM
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[new] Your donkey scares me. Why’s he looking at me?
P.S. Thanks all for the donkey lessons. What I didn’t know about donkeys could fill a book about Ben Carson.


Tortmaster — i saw an old tree today
Nov 10 · 09:38:14 PM
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[new] Wow. I’ve never seen or even heard of a Mammoth Donkey breed before. That head is so big, it makes the picture look photo-shopped, but I know now that its not, because I just googled “Mammoth Donkey”. Holy cow!


Angela Marx — i saw an old tree today
Nov 10 · 10:24:22 PM
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[new] Could you post a few of your donkey photos in a pootie diary soon? I love ‘em.
I’ve never seen a mammoth jack in the flesh, but one of my neighbors years ago had mini-donkeys, sweet as could be.


kaliope — i saw an old tree today
Nov 11 · 02:25:59 AM
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[new] How STUPID this discussion has become. Democrats must focus, Focus, FOCUS on winning 2016 etc., so that this Nation can Survive the lying, sleazy, ruthless, neurotic Neo-Medievalists probably led by the most erratic, unreliable of ALL...MARCO RUBIO. Vote him out Out OUT!
Let’s get to the business of electing ADULTS now..forget the donkeys.. sheesh


sandyoestreich — kaliope
Nov 15 · 12:34:31 PM
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[new] Nice ass!


Bomberette — i saw an old tree today
Nov 12 · 09:22:20 AM
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[new] But you could easily turn those graphs upside down to prove the exact opposite!
Wasn't there a graf here not long ago proving that 3000 > 8000, or something?
Just change the scale on red and blue, and red is a Lot higher!
Figures don't lie. Statistics, meh.


tapu dali
Nov 10 · 02:48:43 PM
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[new] But the Democrats would never use that graph.
Not fair!


tapu dali
Nov 10 · 02:53:09 PM
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[new] [h=2]They might use it,[/h] ...but they won’t build an effective campaign on it. It was almost as good an argument in 2000 and ‘04 as it is today. But to this day the Republican Party has a reputation of being better for economy.


Demi Moaned — tapu dali
Nov 10 · 03:00:55 PM
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[new] also defense, despite 9/11, Iraq...


kamarvt — Demi Moaned
Nov 10 · 03:30:03 PM
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[new] [h=2]I almost went there[/h] And it annoys me no end that to this day Democratic Presidents feel that they need to appoint a Republican as Secretary of Defense, implicitly acknowledging that Democrats don’t trust themselves to run the military.


Demi Moaned — kamarvt
Nov 10 · 03:53:41 PM
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[new] Same here. After all, they only won WWII...


sidnora — Demi Moaned
Nov 11 · 04:10:49 AM
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[new] Why would they. Conservatives are logic repellent. And critical thinking repellent. And reason repellent. You could put up reams of information discrediting conservative ‘thought’ and they’d a: never read it, and b: simply point to the ones they do listen to and parrot whatever they said that day without any real thought as if it was a rebuttal to actual information. Conservatism is now more a religion than a political ideology anymore and they believe it with faith because it has nothing to back it up in the real world.


Tuatha de Dannan — tapu dali
Nov 11 · 02:32:39 PM
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[new] the real 800-pound animal in the room/debate isn’t a donkey — it’s the gop elephant who doesn’t want the economy (or the govt, for that matter) to work for anyone except the 1%...something former-citigirl maria bartiromo will never bring up.


bluezen
Nov 10 · 03:13:27 PM
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[new] Excellent! Very well done as usual. I just love your graphs and the proof that Democratic Presidents know how to handle the economy. Never mind the Commander-in-Chief role [SUP]th[/SUP] at the Republicans think the presidency is really about. They all want to wear that cool flyer’s jacket with the US emblem and their name on it.


vcmvo2
Nov 10 · 03:35:11 PM
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[new] More broadly, the economy has always done better under progressive presidents, which include progressive Republicans like Lincoln and TR. We were obviously at war under Lincoln, but the various progressive policies he implemented, like the Homestead and Morrill Acts, clearly helped stimulate the economy after the war.
I’d go even further back to Washington, who while more conservative than Jefferson implemented very economically liberal policies that took the US from being a major debtor nation to having one of the fastest-growing economies in the world.
Government spending and an active participation in the economy, done right, are almost always stimulative, in the short and long term.


kovie
Nov 10 · 03:36:45 PM
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[new] [h=2]Ummmmmm,[/h] we all need to stop with the pretense that the republicans want economic prosperity. They cannot simply continue with this bull and pretend that it’s not the outcome they desire. The truth is that they want economic collapse so there will be a justification to eliminate all social programs and they simply do not care how much harm it does to the rest of us.
Lets all just stop pretending that they want any other outcome, I mean seriously, fool us once, twice, and what is it now a dozen times, and we’re still pretending that their policies are serious.

They wanted 2007/2008 to happen and there were more than a few of them that were pissed about the bailouts as they really thought we all should have taken our medicine…


laughingriver
Nov 10 · 03:54:43 PM
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[new] will you anti-capitalism, phony latter-day Marxists PLEASE get over your dislike of business? It is in truth what drives USA economy.
Sure there are big fat abuses, but overall it’s the best economic system in the world, which is why everyone else wants to be like USA; that and personal freedoms (being assaulted from various directions now).
Yes, better regulation needs to happen, as was the case during age of Robber Barons. Direct criticism to that, and over-reach of out-of-control Fed agencies, but not capitalism as a whole.


margykr — laughingriver
Nov 11 · 09:30:07 PM
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[new] There *is* the issue of ‘benefits vrs harm’ , and with the tremendous disparities between the have’s and the have-not’s , these days your capitalist ideals are tested ...and fail … All you say applies only to the wealthy ..
This present circumstance will change, whether the 1% wants it or not …


tkjtkj — margykr
Nov 11 · 10:59:54 PM
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[new] We love business! What we hate are the anti-capitalist, anti free market habits of large businesses.
Democrats understand that demand drives business; Republicans don't. Let too many Republicans into office and you will quickly discover businesses dying all over the place, as demand dries up and the economy grinds to a halt.
We've been through this movie many times.


tallen387 — margykr
Nov 15 · 01:20:10 PM
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[new] Most economists favor a mixed economy over both extremes; capitalism and socialism. Conservatives favor more capitalism and less socialism because they want even more riches for the rich, and progressives favor more socialism and less capitalism because they want the economy to work for everyone. I favor community service employment program for low income residents able to work and pensions for the elderly and disabled. I also favor enough subsidized low-income housing to at least house all the low income residents, and food stamps.


graceadams830 — laughingriver
Nov 12 · 06:04:27 AM
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[new] [h=2]Flashback — 2003[/h]

• Number of jobs projected to be added WITHOUT 2003 tax cuts : 3.1 million
• Number of jobs projected to be added WITH 2003 tax cuts: 4.5 million
• Actual number of jobs created from 2003 tax cuts: 2.4 million

So the tax cuts actually REDUCED the number of jobs created while reducing revenue and increase deficits.


tln41
Nov 10 · 04:11:24 PM
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[new]

November 11, 2015
Dear FOX Business Channel,
The GOP candidates for president were NOT in the least amused last night by several aspects of how your channel handled the debates. We thought you were on our side, apparently we thought wrong.
For instance, where do you get off asking Jeb! Bush, “Several people are now questioning whether your brother is actually the smarter one. How do you respond?” That was just wrong. Another example was when your questioner’s follow-up to Senator Cruz was, quote unquote Are you crazy? I mean, seriously, was that necessary?
Similarly, “Have you ever been diagnosed with Narcissistic Personality Disorder?” Was highly inappropriate for you to have asked either Dr. Carson OR Mr. Trump. But even putting all that aside, the thing that really upset the candidates was your choice to play “Send in the Clowns” as the candidates walked out on stage.
Sincerely,
Reince Priebus
RNC Chairman
​

kbman
Nov 10 · 04:57:19 PM
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[new] It has been exhautively studied, documented and proven: Most everything is better with Dems in charge: From Forbes, 2012:

• Personal disposable income has grown nearly 6 times more under Democratic presidents
• Gross Domestic Product (GDP) has grown 7 times more under Democratic presidents
• Corporate profits have grown over 16% more per year under Democratic presidents (they actually declined under Republicans by an average of 4.53%/year)
• Average annual compound return on the stock market has been 18 times greater under Democratic presidents (If you invested $100k for 40 years of Republican administrations you had $126k at the end, if you invested $100k for 40 years of Democrat administrations you had $3.9M at the end)
• Republican presidents added 2.5 times more to the national debt than Democratic presidents
• The two times the economy steered into the ditch (Great Depression and Great Recession) were during Republican, laissez faire administrations

And from Jon Perr | Daily Kos 2012 - “It's not even Close" (@ this Jon Perr link are excellent charts along with explanations backing up the graphics)
Thx Jon Perr


Eric Nelson
Nov 10 · 05:24:27 PM
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[new] To give credit Fox Business actually asked the question and of course it was ignored by the candidates. You are absolutely right though and Hillary will have the charts memorized by next year reminding every American.


txdoubledd
Nov 10 · 08:18:01 PM
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[new] Great diary. The 800-lb. donkey they see as an 800-lb gorilla.


timqueeney
Nov 10 · 08:55:35 PM
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[new] When you write,

“… almost all of which were opposed by Congressional Republicans—“
​

I wonder why anybody would oppose them? It is my opinion that we would all be in breadlines if it were not for some, if not most, of those drastic measures. I have never seen a President look as scared as George Bush when he announced the problem. His leading advisers looked frightened as well.
It must have sucked to give banksters the money, and to give profligate corporations like General Motors and Chrysler a helping hand, but because we had a President who wasn’t afraid, who would do what was necessary, we came out much, much better than expected. Thanks, Obama!


Tortmaster
Nov 10 · 09:31:31 PM
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[new] [h=2]Republicans lie like a bad rug.[/h] Numbers never do.
You’d think that what passes for our News Media these days would just go with the numbers in graph form and, you know, LET THE VIEWER DECIDE which Party and it’s policies have been good or bad for the nation.


Angela Marx
Nov 10 · 10:18:29 PM
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[new] Thank you for a well written and informative diary.


ExPat Zuzzguzz
Nov 11 · 01:42:08 AM
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[new] T&R’d, bookmarked for community edu!


kaliope
Nov 11 · 02:17:40 AM
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[new] Wonderfully dense in information — hot listed for future reference. Thanks!


Wee Mama
Nov 11 · 04:06:14 AM
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[new] Since the Cons always say the opposite of what they mean, it’s probably a mistake to credit anything they say. Take jobs. We know the Cons have no interest in jobs because they don’t like to work. Take pay. We know the Cons have no interest in pay because they don’t like to pay.
Why don’t they admit that? They’re not that stupid.


hannah
Nov 11 · 05:05:05 AM
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[new] The commentators will make sure this information doesn’t pop up in these weekly debates.


Donnat
Nov 11 · 07:42:31 AM
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[new] Last night's debate didn't even come close to addressing any of this. They were all given softball questions and opportunities to give stump speeches instead of really giving solutions and how they as the leader of this country would make things better for the average American. What a waste of time.


benaaron
Nov 11 · 09:40:18 AM
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[new] Did you mean to say Democrats achieved a “3% point DROP”?

Unemployment Rate: Both Democratic Presidents saw more than a 3% point job in the unemployment rate during their terms. The Bushes saw increases in the unemployment rate by more than 2% and 3% points respectively.
​

vlrock
Nov 11 · 09:56:10 AM
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[new] I was bothered by this as well. I hate it when I read an article from someone who is obviously intelligent and I want to share it, but I find too many simple errors in the text. It makes me feel as though I will be found lax by association if I share the article and others notice the same errors. I wish that people would take the time to proofread their articles prior to publication so that small mistakes like this one don’t detract from the credibility of the article as a whole.


mobtown1234 — vlrock
Nov 11 · 11:56:54 AM
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[new] Thank you both for the catch.
I discovered the error (“job” instead of “drop”) in the original NDN web page and PDF report. I updated the diary with [drop] to correct the mistake.
I did not catch this either before or after copying and pasting the citation from the report. Thank you again for flagging it.


Jon Perr — mobtown1234
Nov 11 · 03:34:23 PM
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[new] The problem is that the Economy does not feel like it helping everyone. I do believe the pundits who say that a lot of people willing to work, just gave up, and stopped looking for work. I have friends who formerly made $60K a year, and are now doing Demonstrations in Costco for $11.00 an hour. Those are the lucky ones.


Boca Babs
Nov 11 · 10:46:11 AM
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[new] God damn it. When is anyone going to realize that the so-called Republican party is the political show for a CRIMINAL contingency of heartless looters. This is why their ideas never change. Lower taxes = starve governmnent so it can’t see what we do. No two people wake up in the morning having had the same dream and no two people have exactly the same perception of reality. But mysteriously a small crew of manipulators manages to get millions of Americans to act as if they HAVE had the same dreams and all have the exact same perception cycle after cycle which just happens to always pay off this class of rich manipulators. Give me a god damn break. It’s way way way past time to call a spade a spade and stop acting like these people can be persuaded by reason or ancient founding tradition. They are criminally compromised and run interference for a kleptocratic core. Stop being SCAPEGOATED as LIBERALS. It is not just the dip-shits running for POTUS on the GOP side that are in the clown car. Democrats/liberals/progressives who listen to a schmuck like Chris Mathews legitimize this criminal theater of the absurd are in the clown car too. I urge you to get out and stay out.


RareBird0
Nov 11 · 10:49:17 AM
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[new] YOU Got it~ I agree 100% Every Time we have a GOPer in the White House we go to WAR! & The 1% are NOT the ones to suffer. WE the People are! Right ON man, YOU got it! Triple thumbs up!


752 permonth — RareBird0
Nov 15 · 04:43:01 PM
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[new] It’s been long enough for voters to come to the realization that Democrats support them and Republicans support the wealthy 1%. I’m fed up with voters who complain about Democrats and praise Republicans and follow them into their own bankruptcy.


snickering
Nov 11 · 10:53:27 AM
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[new] GOP's will find away to rewrite history books so in ten years it will be Democratic failures and Republican salvation. Get out and vote and take everyone with you.


koach harrington
Nov 11 · 10:56:16 AM
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[new] They already try to blame so much on liberals for the things that they did that its patently absurd. For the people that supposedly own up for the things they do and pay the price for it they sure do end up blaming others for every little thing they’ve done and try to get others to pay for their mistakes. Then again they’re hypocrites.


Tuatha de Dannan — koach harrington
Nov 11 · 02:37:22 PM
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[new] Sounds like you’re saying the Democrats are the Janitor Party: always asked to stay out of the discussion, then cleaning up after the ‘real’ party is over.
And too often, like NOW, when it matters, the Democratic party leader doesn’t call anyone to task for having made the mess. (Iraq, Afganistan, Middle East, Financial Markets, et al)
If we act like the ‘hired help’, that’s how we’ll be treated.


kellyb2
Nov 11 · 11:13:31 AM
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[new] Applause, kellyb2! Couldn’t have said it better! And what’s worse, the GOP are lousy tippers...


railhunk — kellyb2
Nov 11 · 11:21:58 AM
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[new] “Pay no attention to that donkey, behind the “Defund Planned Parenthood” curtain!”


railhunk
Nov 11 · 11:19:19 AM
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[new] Articles like this one are great, but you have to read them and then digest the facts they contain. The GOP base isn’t interested in facts because if they were they would have stopped voting against their own self interests years ago. My biggest concern, besides putting either Hillary or Bernie in the Oval Office come Jan 2017 to block the RWNJs in Congress from packing SCOTUS, are the down-ballot races that we have conceded to the Republicans. Look at Governorships, and state legislatures to see what I mean. We need an army of volunteers to get people registered, whatever IDs they need and then get them to the polls. This is the only way of leveraging our 6% advantage (Democrats = 30%; Republicans = 26% of the electorate) over the GOP. Doing so might even overcome the effects of gerrymandering in some congressional districts to turn them from red to blue. It would certainly help state-wide elections, including senate races.


DrJohninDC
Nov 11 · 11:21:20 AM
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[new] WELLL-- KOS. YOU FINALLY SMARTENED UP ...
YES WE NEED SANDERS AS PRESIDENT.
NO MORE BUSH CLINTON BULLSHIT.
SANDERS FOR PRESIDENT
AN AMERICAN FOR All AMERICANS



kvnprn
Nov 11 · 11:40:53 AM
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[new] It was good to read this post. Now, how can we get mainstream media to report this so that all those knee jerk Rethuglicans can actually get informed with facts and not Faux News b.s. I get so depressed when I think of the future of this once great nation. American manufacturing jobs fled the U.S. with the assistance of the Rethuglican dominated Congress that gave tax breaks to corporations that moved their manufacturing overseas. Congress actually rewarded corporations for deserting the U.S. When Democrats tried passing legislation that ended the tax breaks, the Rethuglicans shot it down. Yet you will not find that information pointed out by mainstream media anywhere, nor do Democratic candidates ever point out the failure of Rethuglican economics.


hashtag
Nov 11 · 11:44:47 AM
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[new] This is well done, but please fix this:
Unemployment Rate: Both Democratic Presidents saw more than a 3% point job in the unemployment rate during their terms. The Bushes saw increases in the unemployment rate by more than 2% and 3% points respectively.


breezi
Nov 11 · 12:37:20 PM
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[new] Here’s another one: Since Reagan no Republican has held the White House longer than a single term. The voters seem to want to alternate between parties but quickly get their fill of Republican antics. I suspect that pattern isn’t going to hold this election. Virtually all of the current crop are riding the crazy train. I suspect they are simply too extreme for the electorate to swallow — at least I hope that’s the case!


RRobertson
Nov 11 · 12:40:41 PM
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[new] I realize that Chris Christie is one huge guy, but I don’t think there are 800 lbs. of him----YET!


Michael39301
Nov 11 · 12:50:40 PM
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[new] We must somehow condense this information and spread it far and wide so that the poor misguided souls, in the southern red states in particular, stop voting against their own best self-interest by voting republican such as happened in KY.


Bigfrog
Nov 11 · 01:12:21 PM
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[new] Title made me think that it was a Christie article.


Mr Zzzzz
Nov 11 · 01:47:23 PM
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[new] I cannot believe that anyone could think that republicans are fiscally responsible, or have any type of responsibility.
Recessions Since 1950 and Party in WH at Onset

Jul 1953 - May 1954 Republican
Aug 1957 - Apr 1958 Republican
Apr 1960 - Feb 1961 Republican
Dec 1969 - Nov 1970 Republican
Nov 1973 - Mar 1975 Republican
Jan 1980 - July 1980 Democrat
Jul 1981 - Nov 1982 Republican
Jul 1990 - Mar 1991 Republican
Mar 2001 - Nov 2001 Republican
Dec 2007 - Jun 2009 Republican

There have been 22 recessions since 1900.
16 have started under Republican leadership, 6 under Democrat leadership and the 2 worst 1929 and now when Repubs had control of WH and congress for more than 8 years(the only times in history)
www.nber.org/...
Given repub economic history, the 2 largest depressions in our history, the only 2 times they
have had control of congress and WH for more than 8 years.. why does anyone listen to them on economics, when they never show supporting economic data.. just beliefs.


JNRatliff
Nov 11 · 02:02:18 PM
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[new] "After that [CNBC] debate, I realized, I knew my marching orders. It was clearer than ever what my marching orders are, and that is to help the viewer, help the voter better understand what each candidate's plan is; is it a realistic plan, can it work and how is it different from the next guy or gal, and that's what I plan to focus on."

She did this how? By lobbing muffins instead of hardballs?





Southern White Boy
Nov 11 · 02:02:32 PM
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[new] ...Please! STOP trying to confuse Republicans with THE FACTS!


ronbron
Nov 11 · 03:40:08 PM
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[new] the 800 lbs. elephant in the debate ? I thought C Christy was out of it ?


daviddinglehart
Nov 11 · 05:55:49 PM
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[new] sorry donkey .


daviddinglehart
Nov 11 · 05:56:30 PM
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[new] But these are FACTS!
They are biased. Everyone knows that facts have a liberal bias!


FarmerDave
Nov 11 · 08:05:39 PM
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[new] There those social scientists go again; offering facts to disprove well-loved and widely accepted Republican mythology. The GOP doesn’t need facts; they have beliefs and they know in their hearts that people like Clinton and Obama can’t have been good for the economy because Fox News tells them so. The fact that the pundits on Fox have spent the last 7 years predicting higher interest rates, rampant inflation and debased currency as a result of Democratic polices and not one of these predictions has come to pass, is irrelevant to them. They trust only Fox to tell the truth because the rest of the media, along with the social scientists and those evil climatologists are part of a vast conspiracy to destroy the American Way of Life, as defined by bigots, yahoos and rednecks.



amoginesq
Nov 11 · 09:37:18 PM
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[new] Facts? We don’t need no stinking facts! We’re Republicans. We make up shit all the time. Those are our facts! Did you know that Hillary is a Jehovah’s Witness with Muslim leanings? Or that Hillary’s private email server was run by ISIS? How’s that for some juicy facts? I can make up more!


Do Not Push
Nov 12 · 01:20:55 PM
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[new] How dare the left wing librul media bring facts into the equation? Just today the flagship newspaper of the Australian Rupert Murdoch empire the New York Post has a cartoon showing a steady DECLINE in job growth over the last 7 years. A DECLINE, which of course will be thought as telling the truth by the faux news nation. I know there’s freedom of the press but didn’t understand it meant freedom to lie their a**es off.


flowerchild42
Nov 12 · 01:43:37 PM
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[new] Thanks for pointing out the fact that the cuts in government spending did absolutely nothing to help strengthen, or improve the economy. I remember reading several articles by President Clinton’s former Labor Secretary, Robert Reich, saying the very same thing.


liberallonghorn
Nov 12 · 01:58:57 PM
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[new] Thanks formal this data. I am collect stats like these to tweet during debates and to use in my blog!


mv7psw
Nov 13 · 03:14:07 PM
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[new] Lazy 4th graders and all. They don’t even want to work at a job.


saadasim
Nov 13 · 07:56:57 PM
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[new] I always hear Repubs talking about taking America "back to when it was great", but they never talk about taking it back to when CEO pay was 40 times the lowest employee's pay. Why is that?


billdubya2004
Nov 15 · 09:49:11 AM
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[new] Prepare for responders:
I’m not going to be a Bush League President. I’m going to do what Reagan did-second term. (which was perfectly respectable.)


phillies
Nov 15 · 11:22:55 AM
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[new] Republican Presidencies have led to recessions and larger deficits;
100% correct.
Recessions Since 1950 and Party in WH at Onset

Jul 1953 - May 1954 Republican
Aug 1957 - Apr 1958 Republican
Apr 1960 - Feb 1961 Republican
Dec 1969 - Nov 1970 Republican
Nov 1973 - Mar 1975 Republican
Jan 1980 - July 1980 Democrat
Jul 1981 - Nov 1982 Republican
Jul 1990 - Mar 1991 Republican
Mar 2001 - Nov 2001 Republican
Dec 2007 - Jun 2009 Republican

There have been 22 recessions since 1900.
16 have started under Republican leadership, 6 under Democrat leadership and the 2 worst 1929 and now when Repubs had control of WH and congress for more than 8 years(the only times in history)
www.nber.org/...
Given repub economic history, the 2 largest depressions in our history, the only 2 times they
have had control of congress and WH for more than 8 years.. why does anyone listen to them on economics, when they never show supporting economic data.. just beliefs.


JNRatliff
Nov 15 · 11:37:47 AM
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[new] As long as the candidates can stay to their scripts, they won’t have to deal with these pesky questions — they can rely on the propaganda machine to convince the voters that “trickle-down” and “job creators” are real economic boosters, in spite of 35 years of dis-proof. They can spend their time bashing everything not GOP so as to energize the audience, because their audience prefers the emotional content rather than the factual content, anyway.


wgaskill
Nov 15 · 12:57:46 PM
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[new] …. And then Bill signed NAFTA AND SCREWED THE MIDDLE CLASS !! Thanks Bill !! And hill will do the same, she's bought and paid for.…
How about we let Sanders take over, we've had to much clinton and bush time for a President that gives a shit !!


kvnprn
Nov 15 · 02:58:11 PM
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[new] All the rethug ‘debates’ are is silly noise about this and that and insult trading.
The really important substantive issues confronting us are problems caused by them anyway so it’s understandable why they don’t want to air these facts and their lack of any meaningful achievement since forever, but especially since Jan. 2009.
They need to be swept out of the House and Senate and replaced by those who CARE about ordinary citizens, but that’s not bloody likely.
Stupid is eternal.


willymack
Nov 15 · 03:23:59 PM
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The 800 pound donkey in the GOP debate

 

[GasMan]

Your headline is very misleading.

I fully expected to open this and see a picture of your mother in the front row of the last Republican debate.

 

[SheriffJoe]

duhhhhhhfinch broke my satire detector and now he broke my scroll wheel.

 

[guitarjosh]

You copied the comments and posted those too?

 

[Buster]

You copied the comments and posted those too?

A truly stupid motherfucker,that does not even know how to correctly copy/paste a stupid article...But he did copy/paste correctly when Carson lost his brain surgery license in ALL 50 STATES...

 

[Dafinch]

A truly stupid motherfucker,that does not even know how to correctly copy/paste a stupid article...But he did copy/paste correctly when Carson lost his brain surgery license in ALL 50 STATES...

No answers to the article, big surprise. Lick the scum off a dead dog's dick, cocksucker...Slapping-silly90))Loser!@#0kth)(&^:carto1710:kissingbb:madasshol:Countdown:fckmad:

 

[Dafinch]

You copied the comments and posted those too?

Wow, nothing gets past you, does it?

 

[guitarjosh]

Wow, nothing gets past you, does it?

Nope

 

[GasMan]

More gay and pedophile and beastiality jokes from resident tard. Shocking.

 

[Dave007inVegas]

duhhhhhhfinch broke my satire detector and now he broke my scroll wheel.

He must do that just to try and piss us off. He couldn’t possibly do it because he thinks someone would actually read it, could he?

 

[CHOPTALK]

The 800 pound donkey in the GOP debate

I thought Chris Christie got kicked out the big boy debate