Steroids vs 'Legal'performance enhancers, when you really think about it no different

[Journeyman]

Ok its gotten to the point (mainly thanks to the media) that steroids are the only reason players are Bigger, Stonger and Faster! And that is jut NOT TRUE, trying to determine which performance enhancers are 'healthy' and which are long term detrimental is IMPOSSIBLE...

CREATINE a 'legal' substance which also can increase size and strength substancially in a short period of time, is accepted yet these other certain enhancers are not...My question is WHERE DO WE DRAW THE LINE?

How do we know which enhancers are more dangerous than others, we really don't......Hell, we don't even know which foods are hurting us because it changes every 5 years...

Where is the line really being drawn and who is deciding which enhancers are acceptable? If a drug was thought to be no harmful yet increased someone size 50% would that be acceptable? Its a very gray area, too many variables and the media is eating this up...

I say we stop worrying so much about it, we all know the stats are all relative to the era they were accomplished in....In this day and age of science and technology athletic perfomances are going to continue to eclipse the past one way or the other...

I am done looking at players who used Steroids as Cheaters....Its just a matter of opinion anyway...Barry Bonds is gonna hit 800 homeruns and will now be looked at as a cheater one way or the other, that's a fact.

 

[Noreaga+]

I've got a new beef with you..

you said I talk a good game.. what the hell does that mean ?

 

[Journeyman]

Please read my post and comment, I don't write these intelectual, time consuming thought provoking gems for nothing,lol...:lolBIG:

Noreaga, I could say you're the shiznit of all shiznit and you would gripe...

'Talk a good game' = Solid Poster...

Now don't make me get mushy!:hump:

 

[Noreaga+]

ok, my fault.

proceed...

 

[Journeyman]

As i was saying, who is determining whats acceptable to make a body grow and get stronger....WTF, when you really think about it, at best its very very debatable!

I use creatine as a perfect example, who knows what this micronized creatine does long term, but the so called experts say its 'safe' lol...So was Phen Phen til the Orioles pitcher dropped dead from it (among other less noteables)

Baseball is a mess because of this....Please tell me how these NFL lineman are all so gigantic and we're suppose to believe they're not doing the same things? Its an out of control joke!

Legalizing everything is the only answer...unfortunately!

 

[TheGeneral+]

Bring a real player back to the game like Pete Rose and ban these cheating jokers using drugs to enhance their performance.

 

[Illini]

It's not a matter of opinion, J-man, for those that did cheat. It was against the rules, and they broke those rules. That's cheating.

 

[Journeyman]

General i have strongly been against steroids from day one...but I have reached the conclusion its virtually impossible to decide what can be detected and what can be considered safe...the subject is so vague and controversial its probablly better to allow everything then to mire threw this tangled web...

So many unanswered questions...its an impossible subject to police, impossible!

 

[Journeyman]

It's not a matter of opinion, J-man, for those that did cheat. It was against the rules, and they broke those rules. That's cheating.

Illini- i am a baseball historian, and no one wants the games records to be tainted more than me...I just feel at this point its impossible to know who is doing what....too many ways around it.

Who is going to decide what is right and wrong, creatine and other 'legal' enhancers are accepted still, someday they will probably tell us these are very harmful as well...its an impossible task...

Another thing , when an athlete uses Steroids for a few years is he automatically going to lose all that strength he attained illegally? No he won't...there's just too much out there to stop it all... :digit:

 

[Illini]

Journey, I can see your point. But I'm not about to say that Bonds' records are legitimate, on the argument that the steroids may not have even been harmful to him. Irrelevant. He broke rules. Rules are rules.

 

[RobFunk]

no way no way no way.

trust me. i used to frequent the muscle head boards and these guys would blazah their way through on over the counter stuff topics , but you talk about finaject or dbol and they just light up. a lot of guys post some good honest before after stats and yeah m1t test followed by some 6 oxo will help all your stats but next to trenbolone or something its not even close

and really, creatine is junk. it will do minimal for you and just cause eventual liver damage. it is also found in a lot of different foods so if you just eat properly youre already getting all the creatine your body can handle. youd get more hormonal benefit simply eating 2 to 3 eggs every morning.

i eventually discovered that the supplement market and the tout biz arent too much different from each other 90% of both are absolute crap, hype and just big money makers.

come up with something thats crap, post a lame before after pic fake it if you want. put a full page ad in muscle and fitness mark it up 800% over what it costs you and youll have more money than you know what to do with

 

[Journeyman]

I do agree with you for the most part Rob...I can attest that creatine does indeed work and what you say is true you can get creatine basically from eating, would be alot of eating,lol, but you could do it...I swear on a stack of bibles I went from benching 350lbs (stuck for 8 yrs) max to 400lbs in one month on creatine...I only tried it one time, started getting weird numb feelings in my arms and quit it...

My point being it did work and work well...that's my career as a supplement user. entirely....I wouldn't risk it again.

 

[DELSOLII]

I use a protein powder that consists of egg whites and milk. I have seen great results and I must say, my hair seems to be growing back as well.

You guys are correct. If you have a good diet and work out, you will feel and look good.

There are no real short cuts unless you want to pay the price. I never understood the roid heads in the gym who shot up just to be big. I can understand if millions are at stake. But just to impress the chicks at the Jersey shore doesn't make any sense.


Sol II

 

[Journeyman]

DelSol..what kind of protein and how long have you been doing this? What kind of results , if you don't mind answering?

thanks

 

[DELSOLII]

Journeyman,

Nice to hear from you.

I have been lifting since I was 17 .I am 32 now. This is the best product yet.

The product that I am currently using is universal egg and milk. It comes in a white container with a blue and yellow sticker. I paid 9 thousand colones at Multi Plaza.(if you are in cr).

I have been on this product for 3 months so far. First, it tastes good. The problem I had before was that the products I was using tasted nasty and I got sick of them. I combine the vanilla flavor powder with 2 bananas and 10 oz of milk. Blend and drink. It takes good enough where I can kill it in 6 gulps. Than I am done! I get 25 g of protein each time.

Second, I have always been in good shape. But lately, I have increased my weight to 165 and I have 8% body fat.(this is what happens when you work out six days a week!). I am not as puffy but I have very good size and i am RIPPED. RIPPED I say. I have more strength and do not tire as easily. I can do a full hour and a half and walk out feeling fine. This product is no joke and will help balance your diet. I still eat pizzas and enjoy good subs but I also take my protein.

Finally, I have to admit, I was thinning on top. I have been taking Rogaine for years but recently, the protein has helped me grow hair back! It is the truth. The next thing I need is a product that will take away my grey hairs.

Bottom line, hit the gym when you can and use a supplement that makes sense. I was doing it to assist my diet since I was missing meals during the work day. To my delight, it has worked.

Thanks for your attention.

Sol II

 

[RobFunk]

del sol, that stuff doesnt have huge ammounts of glutamine in it, does it?!

 

[DELSOLII]

RobFunk,

The product has 4701 mg of L-Glutamic Acid.

http://www.universalnutrition.com/s...rtrow=11&ProductDisplayOrder=datechanged desc


Hope that helps.


Sol II

 

[SSI]

Jman, there is no comparison in steroids and over the counter products, trust me on that.... back in the day my boys took dbol and test, now the craze is hgh... too pricey and i dont do it but ive seen it....... creatine is a joke in comparison........

Not saying you cant get results with OTC stuff as i have as well but not even close to the real stuff....

I do not think Mark McGwire did illegal drugs, ive seen pictures of him without his shirt back when he was breaking the records, he was bulky but not cut,, he added weight to a 6'5" frame. He pumped iron and got big... Bonds showed the signs of enhancing drugs... Jman, ask around to people that know, creating not even close to the real thing.. there is a difference...

 

[CHOPTALK]

It was not cheating, there was not a rule agianst it until last year.

 

[Journeyman]

I certainly was not comparing, my point was that there are so many types of supplements out there its impossible to detect everything...You know right now there is another Balco Lab making there cocktails and ready to feed the next batch of greedy athletes....this probably goes back to the very early 70's maybe earlier....Its going to be impossible to ever be 100% certain players passing these tests are really clean...

Bonds will have another phenomenal year, and then what, what will they say? Does anyone think Barry was still juicing last yr? I doubt it, not with everything going on, and he still was a freak of nature!