Socialized Medicine..from a Canadian perspective

[GasMan]

Canada: More socialist healthcare FAILURE...Lottery for medical care...LOL!!!

Canada Resorts to Lotteries to Ration Socialized Healthcare

Vermin-beset Britain isn't the only country to warn us away from the looming disaster of nationalized healthcare. There's also our neighbor to the north:

In the latest jarring illustration of the country's doctor shortage, a family physician in Northern Ontario has used a lottery to determine which patients would be ejected f More..rom his overloaded practice.

Dr. Ken Runciman says he reluctantly eliminated about 100 patients in two separate draws to avoid having to provide assembly-line service or extend already onerous work hours, and admits the move has divided the close-knit community of Powassan.

Yet it was not the first time such methods have been employed to determine medical service. A new family practice in Newfoundland held a lottery last month to pick its caseload from among thousands of applicants. An Edmonton doctor selected names randomly earlier this year to pare 500 people from his heavy caseload. And in Ontario, regulators have heard reports of a number of other physicians also using draws to choose, or remove, patients.

Socialism creates poverty not only by destroying incentives, but by interfering with the laws of supply and demand. Attempts to mandate "free" healthcare have created infinite demand. At the same time, government interference has made the medical profession much less appealing, drying up the supply of doctors.

Our own corrupted legal system, which allows ambulance-chasing bandits like John Edwards to loot doctors for outrageous fortunes, thereby driving malpractice insurance costs through the stratosphere, has had a similar effect. In the end, we'll be forced to chose between doctors and economic freedom on one side, or bureaucrats, lawyers, and moonbattery on the other.

 

[GasMan]

Centralized healthcare will succumb to the same fate. When it is taken out of the private sector and put under government—with the good intention of egalitarianism and price control—it will cause the same misery and quality decline as the public school system has. It will cause the same time delays, spiraling costs, corruption among contractors, and poor quality that central control always has. (Read 1984 by George Orwell for more on how this works.) Wealthier people will move to try and find a tolerable healthcare provider but unless their wealth is radically redistributed away, this will only mask the inequality socialists are trying to fix. Likely the wealthiest (or most powerful in the government) will find some loophole to opt out of the plebian system. The very poorest class will now have access to healthcare, but after awhile will they really want it? Lawmakers will have the ability to legislate what is covered and when, and mandatory healthcare will become an equally entrenched institution that all the money thrown at it, gathered from public taxes, cannot fix.

Just ask Canada. While there was a buzz for awhile surrounding their cheaper prescriptions, I am pretty sure their crossing the border for medical care is not because their care is so great.

 

[punter]

You work for a drug manufacturer, right?

Might want to add that as a disclaimer to this and the tons of propaganda you have yet to post.

 

[GasMan]

Uh...no I dont. Good try though.

Lets see here...this must be because of how much better we treat our bodies than in 1960..

Between 1960 and 2000, average life expectancy in the United States increased by more than seven years for men and more than six years for women. In fact, life expectancy rates hit an all-time high in 2005, at nearly 78 years.

When will you bafoons ever learn?

 

[GasMan]

Wow..post has been up over 40 minutes and only a response from one left wing kook?

C'mon guys..this is our model for Obamas health care.

"But you dont have to get in Obamas health plan if you dont want to....." in 3....2....1...

 

[punter]

Uh...no I dont. Good try though.

Lets see here...this must be because of how much better we treat our bodies than in 1960..

Between 1960 and 2000, average life expectancy in the United States increased by more than seven years for men and more than six years for women. In fact, life expectancy rates hit an all-time high in 2005, at nearly 78 years.

When will you bafoons ever learn?

Could have sworn that you said that you worked for or once worked for a drug manufacturer.

After the weekend I might have time to look it up.

As for the rest of your statement, we have several Canadians and a Brit or 2 who post here so we should have their opinions soon.

I think a persons view on health care most likely will vary with how much they have to use it. Over the years I would have told you that ours is quite adequate but I nor any of my family were ever sick and our insurance rates were affordable.

As you age things change. Insurance (with the exception of medicare) becomes unaffordable and you start having little ailments, expensive ailments.


Since we like to view ourselves as one of the highest developed countries in the world, one would think that all of our citizens could afford basic health care. This, however, is not the case and instead of getting better it is getting worse.

We can stick our heads in the sand for a while but when poor people keep dieing while the rich live longer and longer you are going to get your ass kicked.

 

[GasMan]

Punter. I do work in health care, you are correct, but I work in medical device sales. Spine implants, trauma etc.

I understand the basic concepts of health care and socialized health care. The concepts and principals are very grounded. Only problem is they consistently fail. Overall care goes down, appointments become impossible to get and doctor reimbursements ultimately go down. Tie in the increase in government regulation, the inablity for doctors to practice "proper" medicine as to "forced" treatments, and it spells a disaster waiting to happen. I think one of the only countries that has a successful form of this is France, but if you dig into their system their are GAPING holes in prescription plans and other areas.

Every single person over the age of 65 is eligible for Meidcare in this country. Under 65 and disabled or unable to work, Medicaid. If not, a simple ER visit usually will do the trick.

This entire platform is a huge mistake IMO.

 

[barman]

If the dozen or so friends I have in Canada (co workers at DrugSense and related affiliates) were prone to hang out at sports handicapping websites, I might be able to get them to share their many positive experiences with the Canadian-based health care system.

But they don't, so all I can do is note a personal testimonial of the SheBar being told this past early October she would have to wait eight weeks for a routine physical checkup from her endocronologist as her high dollar group health care insurance plan from her employer forces her into a limited list of providers.

 

[GasMan]

If the dozen or so friends I have in Canada (co workers at DrugSense and related affiliates) were prone to hang out at sports handicapping websites, I might be able to get them to share their many positive experiences with the Canadian-based health care system.

But they don't, so all I can do is note a personal testimonial of the SheBar being told this past early October she would have to wait eight weeks for a routine physical checkup from her endocronologist as her high dollar group health care insurance plan from her employer forces her into a limited list of providers.

Difference is barman...is she is going to see an endo. A very specialized field. The wait list in Canada for an endo could be over a year, the wait time for a family doctor visit may be over 8 weeks.

 

[Stocks]

There is nothing wrong with our health care system I like how some americain's use our system as an example of whats wrong with national health care systems.

Our system is fine and 99.9% of Canadians would much rather have our system than the american system.

Also I'm pretty sure I heard that story the other day and it was because the doctor wanted to cut back his hours and didnt have the time to treat everyone. If that was in the States instead of a lottery a doctor would just raise prices and get rid of the poorest patients.

Anyway America is the only non shit hole country that does'nt have a national health care system so I guess that makes america right and all us other countrys wrong.

 

[barman]

She's having to wait eight weeks for her GP as well. They practice in same office.

Thankfully, they're not giving her any undue obstruction to reupping her insulin scripts before the physical

 

[GasMan]

There is nothing wrong with our health care system I like how some americain's use our system as an example of whats wrong with national health care systems.

Our system is fine and 99.9% of Canadians would much rather have our system than the american system.

Also I'm pretty sure I heard that story the other day and it was because the doctor wanted to cut back his hours and didnt have the time to treat everyone. If that was in the States instead of a lottery a doctor would just raise prices and get rid of the poorest patients.

Anyway America is the only non shit hole country that does'nt have a national health care system so I guess that makes america right and all us other countrys wrong.

I dont beleive anything from a Newfie. :lol:

 

[Stocks]

i dont beleive anything from a newfie. :lol:

lol

 

[barman]

And in the year 2008, endocrinology is hardly a "very specialized field". More Americans per capita diagnosed with diabetes than at any time in history and the medical community is sensibly responding to it nationwide. There are upwards of 80,000 endos in the USA and here in Florida there's almost 8,000

 

[GasMan]

And in the year 2008, endocrinology is hardly a "very specialized field". More Americans per capita diagnosed with diabetes than at any time in history and the medical community is sensibly responding to it nationwide. There are upwards of 80,000 endos in the USA and here in Florida there's almost 8,000

Well. Endos are very specialized. They are also very overworked. Diabetes has become epidemic in this country, and is the worst in the south (where you happen to be).

I will take your word for having to wait 8 weeks for a family appointment...but I can call mine at any time and get me or my kids in THAT day. Guess you might wanna think about changing clinics.

 

[GasMan]

http://www.ncpa.org/ea/eajf93/eajf93r.html

some more straight talk from the NCPA.

 

[Stocks]

What happened to you snoops article I guess you read what snoops had to say about it.

 

[GasMan]

You know, the biggest thing that no matter what argument we make for or against this issue is that the government will try to make this a cash cow.

Do you think the dems would really have any interest in this if the $$$ werent there?

It kills dems/libs/socialist for any corporation or individuals to make money. Spread the wealth is not only a McCain party slogan, it is the liberal way, and it SUCKS.

 

[GasMan]

What happened to you snoops article I guess you read what snoops had to say about it.

http://www.snopes.com/politics/medical/canada.asp

Doesnt really make a case one way or another. Confirms some facts and discredits others, just like most snopes findings.

 

[barman]

Well. Endos are very specialized. They are also very overworked. Diabetes has become epidemic in this country, and is the worst in the south (where you happen to be).

I will take your word for having to wait 8 weeks for a family appointment...but I can call mine at any time and get me or my kids in THAT day. Guess you might wanna think about changing clinics.

She's only permitted a very short list of providers under her $450 a month (for her only) BC/BS group health care plan. The others are located at a slightly greater distance and have told her same waiting period along with of course having to transfer all files and records from the existing provider.

Bottom line is that all systems have their pluses and minuses. Seems that most of the Canadians I know find their system highly preferable and certainly more affordable to those most commonly used in the USA. While also many of the Americans I know seem to believe they've got it pretty good here too.

Suggesting that either one or other (Canadian or US) system is wholly preferable to all concerned smaks of simple partisan finger wagging.

But hey, it's Saturday in a sports handicapping web forum. Not exactly like we're going to encounter any heavy duty serious political discussion.

Such is far more likely to be found out in the Real World.....to which (gasp!) I must now venture forth on accounta having to complete a short contract yard cleanup for one of my clients in Safety Harbor

Gots to get paid so I can get ever closer to getting my dental restoration completed ($2200 on accounta I don't have Canadian-style dental care available....heh)