Smart Diplomacy Update: Ukraine Reports Russian Invasion on a New Front

Search

Member
Joined
Jul 4, 2012
Messages
23,902
Tokens
Remember when Putin was going to back down?

KIEV, Ukraine — Fighting between the Ukrainian military and what Ukrainian and Western officials say are Russian troops worsened early Thursday, prompting fears in Ukraine that a Russian invasion of their territory has begun.
Ukrainian officials say Ukrainian troops are continuing to battle combined Russian and separatist forces on a new southern front around the border town of Novoazovsk, east of Crimea on the Sea of Azov. A military spokesman also said Russian troops are increasing surveillance from northern Crimea, the autonomous Ukrainian peninsula annexed by Moscow in March.
As firefights and shelling continued all day Wednesday and into the night, there were differing reports on whether Novoazovsk, a previously quiet border town, had fallen to Russian-backed separatists. Russian troops and their allies do control villages north of there, according to military spokesman Andriy Lysenko.

http://www.washingtonpost.com/world...b614f4-9a6e-40f4-aa21-4f49104cf0e4_story.html
 

Member
Joined
Jul 4, 2012
Messages
23,902
Tokens
LMFAO

Obama is a problem solver. That's pretty much all he does. This Russian/Ukraine crisis will end with pretty much no casualties and nothing but talk and Obama knew it. Instead of rushing in there and making a big deal about nothing (aka Republicans), we will have a diplomatic solution to this soon. Obama making Putin his bitch, gotta love America!!

^ You can't get any more wrong, or frankly stupid, than that.
 

Rx Normal
Joined
Oct 23, 2013
Messages
52,415
Tokens
LMFAO

quote_icon.png
Originally Posted by akphidelt

Obama is a problem solver. That's pretty much all he does. This Russian/Ukraine crisis will end with pretty much no casualties and nothing but talk and Obama knew it. Instead of rushing in there and making a big deal about nothing (aka Republicans), we will have a diplomatic solution to this soon. Obama making Putin his bitch, gotta love America!!

^ You can't get any more wrong, or frankly stupid, than that.

The Guesser calls Willie "Wrong Way" all because of some stupid election but our forum's cyber pinata takes the cake. It is uncanny how wrong this punk is on any given subject. Just like the Kenyan, when aaaktard zigs it's time to zag.
 

Member
Joined
Jul 4, 2012
Messages
23,902
Tokens
Don't worry guys, the Obama administration is "concerned" about this Russian invasion

What was the Obama administration’s initial reaction? “These incursions indicate a Russian-directed counteroffensive is likely underway in Donetsk and Luhansk. Clearly, that is of deep concern to us,” a State Department spokeswoman said yesterday. She could not have been more inoffensive.

Plainly, Russian President Vladimir Putin has taken the measure of President Obama and found him to be no obstacle to re-creation of the Russian empire. Former assistant secretary of state Brian Hook observes: “Putin’s aggression is a direct challenge to the post-Cold War security order in Europe that America largely created. The President doesn’t seem to fully appreciate this, which is both strange and troubling.”

http://www.washingtonpost.com/blogs/right-turn/wp/2014/08/28/russia-invades-obama-expresses-concern/
 

Life's a bitch, then you die!
Joined
Jul 10, 2007
Messages
28,910
Tokens
Don't worry guys, the Obama administration is "concerned" about this Russian invasion

What was the Obama administration’s initial reaction? “These incursions indicate a Russian-directed counteroffensive is likely underway in Donetsk and Luhansk. Clearly, that is of deep concern to us,” a State Department spokeswoman said yesterday. She could not have been more inoffensive.

Plainly, Russian President Vladimir Putin has taken the measure of President Obama and found him to be no obstacle to re-creation of the Russian empire. Former assistant secretary of state Brian Hook observes: “Putin’s aggression is a direct challenge to the post-Cold War security order in Europe that America largely created. The President doesn’t seem to fully appreciate this, which is both strange and troubling.”

http://www.washingtonpost.com/blogs/right-turn/wp/2014/08/28/russia-invades-obama-expresses-concern/

I feel some much better knowing that even if it’s the standard boiler plate response.

Oh wait, I forgot there is no other kind.
 

New member
Joined
Jan 16, 2013
Messages
2,625
Tokens
Don't worry guys, the Obama administration is "concerned" about this Russian invasion

What was the Obama administration’s initial reaction? “These incursions indicate a Russian-directed counteroffensive is likely underway in Donetsk and Luhansk. Clearly, that is of deep concern to us,” a State Department spokeswoman said yesterday. She could not have been more inoffensive.

Plainly, Russian President Vladimir Putin has taken the measure of President Obama and found him to be no obstacle to re-creation of the Russian empire. Former assistant secretary of state Brian Hook observes: “Putin’s aggression is a direct challenge to the post-Cold War security order in Europe that America largely created. The President doesn’t seem to fully appreciate this, which is both strange and troubling.”

http://www.washingtonpost.com/blogs/right-turn/wp/2014/08/28/russia-invades-obama-expresses-concern/

Putin is playing chess while Obama is playing checkers! I wouldn't go as far as to say Putin wants to recreate the Russian Empire. Putin could go all the way to the Dneiper if he wanted to within 2 weeks & cut Ukraine in two. His motives are far less imperialistic.
 

Member
Joined
Apr 14, 2006
Messages
26,039
Tokens
Akphi wrong again. Go figure.
 

Member
Joined
Aug 6, 2006
Messages
24,884
Tokens
Putin isn't that bright either. Threatening the world to "back off, I have nukes!" are not the words of an intelligent mind. The bastard is cunning though, but hopefully not as irrational as that quote. But he actually has the nerve to claim no Russian troops are in the Ukraine. God help us if this dickhead is ever diagnosed with a terminal illness.

When Obama says something stupid the free press lights him up for it. Not the case in Russia where Putin pens the headlines. The problem with Obama and his diplomatic failures is when you give evil actors like terrorists and dictators a free hand to spray a water cannon over your imaginary demarcations in the sand, other nefarious cocksuckers take notice and follow suit. The most powerful nation in the world can't use diplomatic pressure if it is unwilling under any circumstances to bolster it with its military might.
 

Member
Joined
Oct 12, 2008
Messages
10,180
Tokens
spot on Scott. Although an economic weakling, militarily they are a super power.

http://www.ploughshares.org/world-nuclear-stockpile-report


World-Nuke-Graph-with-Info-082814.png



"back off, I have nukes!

lol, head back to the gym Putin :)
his sphere of influence, increasing buddiness with China is disturbing. Their fondness for him is nutty . Neat for him knowing, seemingly, the economic giant has got his back. He ain't backing down to USA....nope.





When U.S. Chairman of the Joint Chiefs of Staff Martin E. Dempsey aired his concern that Russian President Vladimir Putin’s Ukraine gambit might spark nationalistic unrest that spreads to other regions, he clearly didn’t have China in mind. Nevertheless, it is in the Middle Kingdom where a patriotic public infatuated with Putin may force their own government to take a harder line against the West. According to annual surveys held between 2008 and 2014 by InTouch Today, a regular column of China’s mass media giant Tencent, Putin has consistently maintained an over 90 percent approval rating among the Chinese populace. The column cites Chinese propaganda as partly responsible for playing up Putin’s charm. Besides praising his macho physique, one observer quoted by InTouch Today says that Chinese media coverage portrays Putin as everything from a judo master to a fighter jet pilot. Mainland netizens have adorned the Russian leader with the title “Putin the Great.” Clearly the PRC’s nationalist masses have a soft spot for Russia’s leader.
But it is in Chinese foreign policy circles where observers should be most worried about Beijing’s portrayal of Putin and the admiration he receives. Government-affiliated academics have notably praised Russia’s leader for his willingness to challenge the West head-on across a wide range of issues. Inside the first cover story of the year in Global People, a magazine run by the Chinese Communist Party (CCP) mouthpiece People’s Daily, Chinese Academy of Social Sciences (CASS) researcher Wu Wei praised Putin for usurping America’s traditional role as the defender of democracy by welcoming NSA defector Edward Snowden into the open arms of Russia’s intelligence service. It is worth noting that CASS is directly subordinate to the PRC’s State Council.
Putin has admirers at other major Chinese think tanks as well. Liu Guiling, an analyst at the Ministry of State Security’s China Institutes of Contemporary International Relations (CICIR), writes that Putin has earned his constituents’ support through the pursuit of Russia’s own “Great Power Dream.” Liu asserts this “dream” includes advancing Russia’s national rejuvenation, creating a stronger military, and standing up to foreign interference — themes reminiscent of President Xi Jinping’s own “China Dream.” Likewise, deputy director of CICIR’s Institute of World Political Studies Chen Xiangyang describes Putin’s foreign policies in the context of a “new international situation” and an increasingly multi-polar world. Chen argues that in 2013, Putin’s pressure on Obama over Syria’s civil war and the Iran nuclear issue helped further Moscow’s interests at America’s expense. Chen went so far as to call Putin an “international strategy chess master” for his defense of Russian strategic interests in this year’s Ukraine crisis.
In their admiration of Putin, some Chinese analysts see a blueprint for more assertive Chinese foreign policy. Guo Jinyue from the Ministry of Foreign Affairs’ China Institute of International Studies (CIIS) writes that in comparison with Beijing’s own relatively “mild and moderated” tactics for managing western interference, Putin’s unyielding stance has raised the spirits of China’s hawk faction. Given that CASS, CICIR, and CIIS are all government think tanks affiliated with different organs of state power, these views likely represent a broad segment of the CCP’s own thinking regarding their northern neighbor’s strongman.
Even so, mainland international affairs experts understand Beijing’s need to balance a strong posture via Washington and a working relationship with the West. China’s hyper-nationalist netizens, on the other hand, may not. Wang Yuanfeng, a deputy minister of the United Front minority party the Jiu San Society, writes that China’s legacy of national humiliation and the nearly perfect image Putin has in Chinese media have helped foster Putin’s fledgling cult of personality. In his view, the Chinese people’s dissatisfaction with Beijing’s “peaceful development” strategy comes from their wish to see a more aggressive international stance commensurate with China’s growing comprehensive national power. Pretending to represent the demands of China’s masses, Wang rhetorically asks: “Why can’t China reclaim the Diaoyu Islands like Russia reclaimed Crimea? Why can’t China use weapons to teach the Philippines and Vietnam a lesson?” These questions have complex answers that are unlikely to satisfy the PRC’s online war hawks.
Previously mentioned CIIS analyst Guo Jinyue insightfully diagnoses deeper reasons for Putin’s popularity among Chinese masses and elites alike. Guo believes that, even though Russia and China were once ideological enemies that even met in battle, common Marxist roots and a historical fraternal alliance still form a foundation for today’s amicable relations. As Russia and China cooperate with one another on a range of international issues, Guo states that the Chinese media responds in kind with favorable reporting on Russia’s leader.
What’s even more intriguing, Guo asserts that Putin’s personal character satisfies a certain “psychological need” of the Chinese people. In contrast to CCP leaders’ generally “solemn and firm” appearance, Guo claims Putin leaves Chinese with a “brave and energetic” impression. He goes on to say that Putin’s tough-guy image also fits nicely with China’s traditional desire for a powerful leader. In his final summary, Guo concludes that the Chinese people find within Vladimir Putin qualities that their own leaders lack or rarely express.
If the above-mentioned Chinese observers are even partially correct in their analyses, the implications for the CCP regime are serious. State media naturally benefits from playing into the populist desires of the public, and the leadership itself may benefit from demonstrating that China has strong friends, not just weak allies like North Korea. However, Beijing must be careful not to overplay the “Putin” card. It is worth recognizing that the populists in the Chinese blogosphere are also represented within the Party itself. In his book China Goes Global, David Shambaugh dubs this group the “Nativists,” staunch advocates of international autonomy and vehement critics of the West. Beijing must recognize that as it exalts Russia’s strongman as an ally against the West, it may also inadvertently sanction support for an alternative, uncompromising Chinese foreign policy.
Such support may manifest at the least-expected time. As Jessica Chen Weiss shows in her recent book, Powerful Patriots, the CCP actively uses nationalist outrage as a tool to improve diplomatic negotiating leverage. Nevertheless, the Party is far from mastering it completely. The anti-Japanese protests of October 2010 provided a potent example of government-sanctioned nationalism gone awry, as some protest banners strayed from pre-approved Senkaku dispute slogans to calls for multiparty politics. If future anti-foreign protests evolve into demands for aggressive action over some perceived wrongdoing by the West, emboldened hardline elements in the Party might also call on Xi Jinping to handle business “Putin-style.” But a bolder stance against America and the West is not desirable for China. Xi’s push for a “new model of major country relationship is proof enough of his judgment that a Putin-esque confrontation with Washington is not in China’s interests.
For now, China’s infatuation with Putin seems relatively benign. Nevertheless, Chinese leaders should recognize the risk of Putin’s example becoming yet another hyper-nationalist foreign policy constraint. Western observers would also do well to monitor both the coverage Putin gets in mainland China and the admiration he receives. It may provide a valuable clue to what Chinese decision makers and their constituency alike expect in China’s foreign affairs.


http://thediplomat.com/2014/08/why-chinas-love-for-putin-is-dangerous/
 

New member
Joined
Jan 16, 2013
Messages
2,625
Tokens
You have to admit, Putin's got it together. The guy is amazing. He keeps getting what he wants because, for one thing, his opposing counterparts are idiots and chumps.
Imagine: a chocolate maker, and a community organizer versus this guy, former KGB.
No contest.
 

Member
Joined
Oct 12, 2008
Messages
10,180
Tokens
You have to admit, Putin's got it together. The guy is amazing. He keeps getting what he wants because, for one thing, his opposing counterparts are idiots and chumps.
Imagine: a chocolate maker, and a community organizer versus this guy, former KGB.
No contest.

lovely, an American fan. You part Chinese? :) Not everyone shares your view.

http://www.vox.com/2014/8/29/6082769/one-chart-why-putin-invading-ukraine


Russia's invasion of eastern Ukraine seems, on the surface, like a mystery: Russia does not have that much to gain, does not have a clear strategy, and has inflicted terrible economic and political damage on itself by turning the world against it. So why is Russia doing this? The answer is embedded in this chart, which shows the stunning drop and resurgence of Vladimir Putin's approval rating from 2007 through today, and is just crucial for understanding how he ended up invading:
Screen_Shot_2014-08-29_at_2.06.35_PM.0.png



To really understand why Russia is invading eastern Ukraine, you have to go back to December of 2011. That's when everything changed for Vladimir Putin. It's when his popularity plummeted, and, fearing for his hold on power, he adopted a new and dangerous strategy that has wildly succeeded at boosting his popularity. But it also led him to his disastrous August 2014 invasion of eastern Ukraine.
For the 11 years of his rule up to December 2011, Putin had an unspoken deal with the Russian people: he would provide strong economic growth (plus protection against terrorism), and Russians would let him build an authoritarian state. For a long time, it worked — until the economy staggered under the 2009 recession and never fully recovered.
[h=3]The new Putin[/h]
P120103-1.0.png
<img alt="Russia GDP growth putin" src="//cdn2.vox-cdn.com/thumbor/7g4mOcZk8ek0tkLcD9MI1kBPZM0=/cdn3.vox-cdn.com/uploads/chorus_asset/file/675892/P120103-1.0.png">
(Ed Dolan/Economonitor)
In late 2011, after a few years as prime minister, then-Prime Minister Putin announced that he would run for a not-quite-legal third term as president (Russia, like the US, has term limits), and his party won big in fraud-heavy parliamentary elections in December 2011. Putin expected another boisterously positive reception, but that's not what he happened. Instead, he got protests in major cities, opposition candidates, and, even according to the highly suspicious official tally, only 63 percent of the vote.
Putin panicked. He saw his legitimacy slipping and feared a popular revolt. So he changed strategies. Rather than basing his political legitimacy on economic growth, he would base it on reviving Russian nationalism: imperial nostalgia, anti-Western paranoia, and conservative Orthodox Christianity.
It did not work, at first. Putin sounded more and more nationalistic, he arrested activists and threw some of them in Siberian labor camps, and Russia became openly hostile toward the West. But the protests continued, and his approval ratings drooped into the low-60s, which is dangerously low for an authoritarian leader.
[h=3]Putin's opportunity[/h]
140661760.0.jpg
<img alt="Russian President Vladimir Putin cries while addressing supporters in March 2012 on being reelected (NATALIA KOLESNIKOVA/AFP/Getty)" src="//cdn1.vox-cdn.com/thumbor/mfGrAmsPyic7T348tiGM8yzxoPU=/cdn1.vox-cdn.com/uploads/chorus_asset/file/675944/140661760.0.jpg">
Russian President Vladimir Putin cries while addressing supporters in March 2012 on being reelected (NATALIA KOLESNIKOVA/AFP/Getty)
Then the Ukraine crisis began in late 2013, as Ukrainians protested to replace their corrupt pro-Russian government with a clean pro-European leader, and it was a gift to Putin. He used state media, which he had put under his thumb, to create a parallel universe in which American-backed fascists were toppling Ukraine's rightful pro-Russian leader. He worked his citizens up into a nationalist fury at the West's meddling and stoked a very real fear that literal Nazis had returned in Ukraine and were threatening their Russian-speaking, Slavic brethren. Russians rallied around the flag, and Putin's approval rose.
In March 2014, Putin indulged his own rhetoric about saving Ukraine's ethnic Russians — and seized an opportunity to reclaim a former Soviet strategic port — when he launched a stealth invasion of Crimea, which he annexed. His popularity soared. This wasn't just Putin's popularity recovering from years of doldrums — his approval rating skyrocketed to 80 percent, a high he had not seen in years.
This is when the crisis began to slip beyond Putin's control. After Crimea, he stirred up rebellions in eastern Ukraine, a part of the country historically more sympathetic to Russia and where Russia has concrete economic interests. He likely just wanted to create a perpetual crisis there, to make sure that he would always have this uprising as a gun against the head of Ukraine's new pro-European government. But the nationalistic rhetoric inside Russia was cranked up to a fever pitch. Putin's propaganda had built a parallel universe for Russians, in which the stakes in eastern Ukraine were dire not just for Russia but for the world. So he kept escalating, including arming rebels with powerful surface-to-air missiles that they used to shoot down Malaysian Airlines flight 17, killing 298 innocent people and infuriating the world.
[h=3]Putin loses control[/h]
454292040.0.jpg
<img alt="Rubble in Donetsk, eastern Ukraine (Alexander Ermochenko/Anadolu Agency/Getty)" src="//cdn0.vox-cdn.com/thumbor/9WdShC40QPXsewH7kB_wJI71F-4=/cdn3.vox-cdn.com/uploads/chorus_asset/file/675724/454292040.0.jpg">
Rubble in Donetsk, eastern Ukraine, where rebels are fighting government troops (Alexander Ermochenko/Anadolu Agency/Getty)
Putin had backed himself into an impossible position. By early August, Western sanctions over his meddling had pushed Russia's economy to the point of recession, making Putin more reliant than ever on maintaining the nationalistic fervor over Ukraine. But the violence in eastern Ukraine was spinning out of control, with Ukrainian military forces looking like they were on the verge of overrunning the rebels.
In a rational world, Putin would have cut his losses and withdrawn support for the rebels. But, thanks to months of propagandistic state media, Russians do not live in a rational world. They live in a world where surrendering in eastern Ukraine would mean surrendering to American-backed Ukrainian Nazis, and they believe everything that Putin has told them about being the only person capable of defeating these forces of darkness. To withdraw would be to admit that it was all a lie and to sacrifice the nationalism that is now his only source of real legitimacy. So Putin did the only thing he could to do to keep up the fiction upon which his political survival hinges: he invaded Ukraine outright.
What makes this so scary is that it means that Putin does not have a rational strategy in Ukraine, because he is not invading for rational strategic reasons. If he had a specific objective, then the West could make some concession or find some way to meet him halfway. But he does not. He is invading because the momentum of the crisis he himself created is careening beyond his control, and there's nothing that he or Ukraine or the United States can easily do to stop it.
 

New member
Joined
Jan 16, 2013
Messages
2,625
Tokens
Nonsense, & by the way I have not one drop of Chinese within me, rather British with hints of Irish & German. But if the Chinese like the way things are done by Putin & you assert that they do the only thing I can mention is that in the sobriety of morning the Chinese can tell the time of day.

It is unreasonable to expect Russia to give up its close relationship with Eastern and Southern Ukraine,
and not protect ethnic Russians in the area. Particularly, Crimea is Russia’s main connection to the Black
Sea and Mediterranean. We are supporting not only dreamers-for-Western-success, but a murderous mob of right-wing nationalists.

Thia all started when the Russian leaning leader of Ukraine was overthrown by a coup in Kiev Square, & US influence was involved.
Crazy John McCain was the Rabble-Rouser in Chief, & Victoria Nuland had a hand in it.
To begin with the Maidan was filled with students and many decent people who had trouble with the government
of Yanukovych which was, in common with previous governments, venal and corrupt. Originally the Kiev mobs were protesting with
legitimate grievances but couldn't get anywhere from then on in it was the 'Right Sector' & 'Svoboda' factions that turned the tide.


Dopey McCain went To Ukraine And Stood On Stage With A Man Accused Of Being An Anti-Semitic Neo-Nazi & stated we need boots on the ground in Ukraine. Tyahnybok,McCains new pal, himself demanded that Ukrainians fight against a "Muscovite-Jewish mafia" In 2005
he wrote open letters demanding Ukraine do more to halt "criminal activities" of "organized Jewry," and, even now, Svoboda openly calls for Ukrainian citizens to have their ethnicity printed onto their passports.

If you look at the votes in the last legitimate election there, Lugansk & Donesk gave even larger pluralities to Yanukovych than Crimea did.
They definitely prefer ties with Russia not Ukraine and when the Candy maker idiotically began bombing what he was claming to be part of his country Putin stepped in he was not going to allow the pummeling of Russian Ukraine.

Finally this Poroshenko guy, announced in a statement posted on his website that he has dissolved parliament and called for snap elections
He said the move was in coherence with the Ukrainian constitution, noting that the ruling coalition collapsed several weeks ago.
"Many deputies who are in the Rada (parliament) are direct sponsors or accomplices, that is to say allies of the militant separatists," Poroshenko said.

Dissolving parliament, beautiful, who does he think he is Charles I.
 

New member
Joined
Jan 16, 2013
Messages
2,625
Tokens
Even the greatest Chess Masters are impressed with Putins moves. Obama hoppin mad about borders changing hands 6,000 miles away
while our own borders are being flooded with those seeking handouts or even having worse motives.
 

Life's a bitch, then you die!
Joined
Jul 10, 2007
Messages
28,910
Tokens
Even the greatest Chess Masters are impressed with Putins moves. Obama hoppin mad about borders changing hands 6,000 miles away
while our own borders are being flooded with those seeking handouts or even having worse motives.

Just wait for the first attack in the U.S. by a terrorist who snuck across the border.

All the kings horses (Obama advisers) and all the kings men (the media) won’t be able to save Obama.
 

Forum statistics

Threads
1,119,904
Messages
13,575,037
Members
100,883
Latest member
iniesta2025
The RX is the sports betting industry's leading information portal for bonuses, picks, and sportsbook reviews. Find the best deals offered by a sportsbook in your state and browse our free picks section.FacebookTwitterInstagramContact Usforum@therx.com