You cannot compare different era's for obvious reasons. Different technology, training are going to make current athletes bigger, faster, and stronger than athletes of yesteryear. (Mike Gartner notwithstanding) Most of today's top 20 players have a faster serve than Sampras, but Sampras is without a doubt one of the two best servers ever! When Graf reached adulthood turning 18, she stayed relatively healthy for 9 years and was ranked number 1 for over 80% of her career!! No one is even close to that, male or female. In 95 and 96 she was 42-0 in grand slams matches and 8-0 in the "fifth slam" year end championship, a tourney the all time great Nadal has never won. In 97 with knee, wrist, back surgeries, she played in less than 20 matches and her career was basically over. Joker, if he's allowed to play in the slams will eventually break all of Graf's records but only by playing much longer. No one comes close to what Graf accomplished in so few years!
Martina was ranked number 1 late in 87, until Graf came along. Ranked number 2 in 88, 89, and 90! Graf was number 1. Not way past her prime! Still in her prime, if no Graf three more years of number 1 rankings. Chris was ranked number 2 in 87 until Graf came along. Ranked number 3 in 88 and 89.
No tennis player's prime yrs are in their 30's , cmon now. They all start to fade , injuries, mental toll/drive, age doing its thing. Get some freaks like Martina/Roger but they were outliers. Graf was playing Martina at age 32 + !! record head -to-head is 9-9. It Bodes well for an argument for Martina, not Graf. Graf was in her prime!
yes, i agree, Martina was still a dominate force. The numbers prove that . Just like Roger at 35, still could beat 90% of the field lol. BUT, the point is Roger at 35 is not the same as Roger at 25
Graff's two main opponents early in her career were Hall of Famers who's best yrs were behind them
said another way;
Graff at age 19 Vs Martina at 33 is not the same as ;
Graff at age 19 Vs Martina at age 23 .
h-2-h
Vs Martina 9-9
Vs Evert 7-6
It's not as cut and dry as phd appears to claim with Graff as being the GOAT. Let's keep in mind that the tennis world usually gives the 'GOAT' to the person with the most Grand Slams. Well that's Serena
also phd's talk about advances in racket tech., players faster etc , well does that really factor here? i think we can cross different eras here--Serena was akin to allowing a transgender on the WTA Tour. Her power unseen, physically pound her opponent. Was often not a fair fight.
Graff's two main opponents early in her career were Hall of Famers who's best yrs were behind them
said another way;
Graff at age 19 Vs Martina at 33 is not the same as ;
Graff at age 19 Vs Martina at age 23 .
h-2-h
Vs Martina 9-9
Vs Evert 7-6
It's not as cut and dry as phd appears to claim with Graff as being the GOAT. Let's keep in mind that the tennis world usually gives the 'GOAT' to the person with the most Grand Slams. Well that's Serena
also phd's talk about advances in racket tech., players faster etc , well does that really factor here? i think we can cross different eras here--Serena was akin to allowing a transgender on the WTA Tour. Her power unseen, physically pound her opponent. Was often not a fair fight.
You said way past their prime. Minus Graf, Martina and Chris were still ranked 1 and 2 in the world, just like for most of the early 80's! Martina still won 90% of her matches that was with 3 to 4 defeats and the hands of Graf! Martina was 5-1 vs Graf in 85 and 86! Graf was still a 16 year old kid going against the first truly muscular, fit, beast of a female tennis player. 87 onwards Graf owned Martina.
k, we will agree to disagree. graf was playing with 2 woman in their 30's . Sorry man, yes, Martina was past her prime. No tennis player's prime is in their 30's . The game needed a young gun to handle these geriatrics and it arrived in Graff. Your arguement would have much greater merit if Evert, Martina, graff were similar age group. And i got a hunch that 9-9 , 7-6 record would be kinda worse for Graff if they did
for me, no clear goat in woman's tennis.
if those 3 were to face all in their prime? hypothetically?
the best bet for me would be ;
On clay;
Graff over EITHER Martina/Serena
but at Wimbledon? tell me you can find a better match up then Martina Vs Serena? haha. I think Martina's net game could give Serena fits, esp., if she's off with the groundstrokes whcih was not uncommon for her. If they played 4 matches at Centre Court wouldnt surprise me if its 2-2
for me, no clear goat in woman's tennis.
if those 3 were to face all in their prime? hypothetically?
the best bet for me would be ;
On clay;
Graff over EITHER Martina/Serena
but at Wimbledon? tell me you can find a better match up then Martina Vs Serena? haha. I think Martina's net game could give Serena fits, esp., if she's off with the groundstrokes whcih was not uncommon for her. If they played 4 matches at Centre Court wouldnt surprise me if its 2-2
And no tennis players prime are in their teens either! Martina was still in her prime as evident by the fact she still won over 90% of her matches in 87 and 88 and that's with all those loses to Graf! Women's game not as taxing as the men's game. Best of three not of five. Plus Martina was the first female tennis player to take training to another level. She had a huge edge on all her peers. At 32 she was still in better shape than the rest of the tour. Evert started 6-0 vs Graf (85-86) then as Graf matured, she went 7-0 vs Evert. Also Serena won way more slams in her early 30's than at any other point in her career! Thus her prime years are 31-34 in which she won 8 slams! At no other 4 year stretch of her career did she ever win more than 6 slams.
Serena? built like a truck bro. Severe outlier territory . She can handle some of these kids at 40 lol . An entirely different animal. An age arguement landing with outliers? R u denying that past 30 in woman's golf is not well past prime? huh?
what's your line for ;
Serena Vs Martina Wimbledon Centre Court.
what's your line for ;
Serena Vs Martina Wimbledon Centre Court.
And Martina was the very first truck built! For most yes not for the two beasts of the Sport, Martina and Serena
Depends on the grass, and if the serve and volley game would hold up with today racquets! On fast grass, the serve and volley may still work. Fuck I have no idea.
Old "fast" grass
Martina -150
Serena +120
Today's grass
Serena -125
Martina ev
Serena bid adieu at The Canadian Open (National Bank). Toronto sent her home with a standing ovation, she got all choked up. Cool scene. gl to her going forward.
Should be a great send off, emotional scene at Flushing Meadows, NY
................
She reminisced about past matches in the city and thanked the fans for all of their support as she wiped away tears.
"Like I said in my article, I'm terrible at goodbyes but goodbye Toronto," she said while noticeably choked up.
"It was a lot of emotions, obviously I love playing here, I always loved playing here," she said while adding that "it's been a pretty interesting 24 hours."
Should be a great send off, emotional scene at Flushing Meadows, NY
................
She reminisced about past matches in the city and thanked the fans for all of their support as she wiped away tears.
"Like I said in my article, I'm terrible at goodbyes but goodbye Toronto," she said while noticeably choked up.
"It was a lot of emotions, obviously I love playing here, I always loved playing here," she said while adding that "it's been a pretty interesting 24 hours."
I'm just going to suggest that you're not very good at making my arguments for me, and even worse at putting words in my mouth
I like being me, you do you
Serena is dope af
