That would be the nail in the coffin. The Flyers likely have no chance of winning a cup for the next decade. I thought the mismanagement of the cap would have been enough, but apparently dealing away most of your future was also needed.
Chris Pronger has gone from 50% goon 50% defense to 75% goon 25% defense over the past few years. So the Flyers go ahead and deal their best defensive prospect, Sbisa, an 18 year old who really held his own in the NHL last year, for this old goon. Oh yah, and throw in 25 goal scorer Lupul. Oh yah, and throw in the #19 overall pick and a 1st rounder in 2010.
Not only is this deal crippling for the Flyers, but it really envigorates the Ducks, who with Selanne and Niedermayer coming back, have to be considered a contender in the West. They boast a very solid defense that includes Whitney, Niedermayer, Sbisa, Mikkelson, and likely Wisniewski. They now have 5 scoring forwards, instead of 4. They have roughly $12 million dollars (factoring in roughly $6 mil for Niedermayer) to re-sign Wisniewski, and go after a dman and a couple of depth forwards. If they can somehow shed Giguere's $6 mil salary, they will put themselves in a spot to win the cup by taking on a forward or dman of the same salary either through free agency or trade.
Chris Pronger has gone from 50% goon 50% defense to 75% goon 25% defense over the past few years. So the Flyers go ahead and deal their best defensive prospect, Sbisa, an 18 year old who really held his own in the NHL last year, for this old goon. Oh yah, and throw in 25 goal scorer Lupul. Oh yah, and throw in the #19 overall pick and a 1st rounder in 2010.
Not only is this deal crippling for the Flyers, but it really envigorates the Ducks, who with Selanne and Niedermayer coming back, have to be considered a contender in the West. They boast a very solid defense that includes Whitney, Niedermayer, Sbisa, Mikkelson, and likely Wisniewski. They now have 5 scoring forwards, instead of 4. They have roughly $12 million dollars (factoring in roughly $6 mil for Niedermayer) to re-sign Wisniewski, and go after a dman and a couple of depth forwards. If they can somehow shed Giguere's $6 mil salary, they will put themselves in a spot to win the cup by taking on a forward or dman of the same salary either through free agency or trade.
I have to disagree on many levels.
The Flyers are shooting for the Cup NOW. Not down the road. And they are still well stocked down on the farm. Hockey's Future ranked then no.9 on the overall depth chart before losing Sbisa. And with Claude Giroux and James VanRiemsdyk both 1st line prospects...along with Ryan Parent, their future doesnt look as bad as your making it out to be. I'll bet a lot of Flyer fans agree Pronger is a huge piece of what they were lacking the last 2 season not being able to get past the Pens. And like many analysis have said. Crosby and Malkin won't be able to roam as freely as they have in the past now with Pronger in the division.
And Although Sbisa may prove to be an excellent pickup, he will never BE or can ever add the element that Pronger instantly provides the Flyers. And Lupul is more important to the Ducks than he'll ever be with the Flyers. Scotty Bowman showed the league that draft picks are only prospects and never hesitated to trade them for a valuable commodity. The top 10-12 picks in a draft have a great history of success, anything after that is usually a crap shoot. And the 2 no.1's they also gave up will likely prove to be low 1st rounders.
The Anaheim Ducks minus Chris Pronger are nowhere NEAR to being the threat to win the cup than they are with him in their lineup. "Whitney, Niedermayer, Sbisa, Mikkelson, and likely Wisniewski" in that lineup arn't intimidating anyone. This changes dramatically if they were to swap Giguere for Heatly as mentioned often. I like this move for the Flyers. Holmgren overpaid, no doubt. But this increases his team chances of overtaking Pittsburgh dramatically. Colburn and Pronger will be beasts on that back line now. Pronger wont be 35 till October. The Flyers problems are now what they've always been. Goaltending. But Pronger may be able to provide the experienced defence that allows Detroit to get away with Chris Osgood in the net for so long. The way Lidstrom does. I give this move a
The Flyers are shooting for the Cup NOW. Not down the road. And they are still well stocked down on the farm. Hockey's Future ranked then no.9 on the overall depth chart before losing Sbisa. And with Claude Giroux and James VanRiemsdyk both 1st line prospects...along with Ryan Parent, their future doesnt look as bad as your making it out to be. I'll bet a lot of Flyer fans agree Pronger is a huge piece of what they were lacking the last 2 season not being able to get past the Pens. And like many analysis have said. Crosby and Malkin won't be able to roam as freely as they have in the past now with Pronger in the division.
And Although Sbisa may prove to be an excellent pickup, he will never BE or can ever add the element that Pronger instantly provides the Flyers. And Lupul is more important to the Ducks than he'll ever be with the Flyers. Scotty Bowman showed the league that draft picks are only prospects and never hesitated to trade them for a valuable commodity. The top 10-12 picks in a draft have a great history of success, anything after that is usually a crap shoot. And the 2 no.1's they also gave up will likely prove to be low 1st rounders.
The Anaheim Ducks minus Chris Pronger are nowhere NEAR to being the threat to win the cup than they are with him in their lineup. "Whitney, Niedermayer, Sbisa, Mikkelson, and likely Wisniewski" in that lineup arn't intimidating anyone. This changes dramatically if they were to swap Giguere for Heatly as mentioned often. I like this move for the Flyers. Holmgren overpaid, no doubt. But this increases his team chances of overtaking Pittsburgh dramatically. Colburn and Pronger will be beasts on that back line now. Pronger wont be 35 till October. The Flyers problems are now what they've always been. Goaltending. But Pronger may be able to provide the experienced defence that allows Detroit to get away with Chris Osgood in the net for so long. The way Lidstrom does. I give this move a
I have to disagree on many levels.
The Flyers are shooting for the Cup NOW. Not down the road. And they are still well stocked down on the farm. Hockey's Future ranked then no.9 on the overall depth chart before losing Sbisa. And with Claude Giroux and James VanRiemsdyk both 1st line prospects...along with Ryan Parent, their future doesnt look as bad as your making it out to be. I'll bet a lot of Flyer fans agree Pronger is a huge piece of what they were lacking the last 2 season not being able to get past the Pens. And like many analysis have said. Crosby and Malkin won't be able to roam as freely as they have in the past now with Pronger in the division.
And Although Sbisa may prove to be an excellent pickup, he will never BE or can ever add the element that Pronger instantly provides the Flyers. And Lupul is more important to the Ducks than he'll ever be with the Flyers. Scotty Bowman showed the league that draft picks are only prospects and never hesitated to trade them for a valuable commodity. The top 10-12 picks in a draft have a great history of success, anything after that is usually a crap shoot. And the 2 no.1's they also gave up will likely prove to be low 1st rounders.
The Anaheim Ducks minus Chris Pronger are nowhere NEAR to being the threat to win the cup than they are with him in their lineup. "Whitney, Niedermayer, Sbisa, Mikkelson, and likely Wisniewski" in that lineup arn't intimidating anyone. This changes dramatically if they were to swap Giguere for Heatly as mentioned often. I like this move for the Flyers. Holmgren overpaid, no doubt. But this increases his team chances of overtaking Pittsburgh dramatically. Colburn and Pronger will be beasts on that back line now. Pronger wont be 35 till October. The Flyers problems are now what they've always been. Goaltending. But Pronger may be able to provide the experienced defence that allows Detroit to get away with Chris Osgood in the net for so long. The way Lidstrom does. I give this move a
Just because a team has a lot of prospect depth doesn't mean they blow half their farm for 1 YEAR of a dman on the decline. That's the difference between smart general managers and idiots. If anything, Philly is anticipating a cap decline, and are taking one last shot at it. They have managed the salary cap worse than any team in the league, so they try for one last shot. Good luck... enjoy paying out $13 million to Timonen & Briere for the next 4 years.
Your probably thinking I go out of my way to disagree with you but that's not the case at all. I enjoy debating with you and what you add here. Your knowledgeable and love the game like I do. Your just wrong a lot.
JK.I know he's no spring chicken, but every time he's moved, he made an impact. Hey man, most every team is maxed out on the cap. And it looks like a bad move now but they had the cash at the time for Briere and needed a center with what he could provide them.
"They have managed the salary cap worse than any team in the league"
No way. That would be the Colorado Avalanche. PL fucked that team with his bonus' to Sakic and Blake when he knew the salary cap was coming. And that team has paid for it ever since. That and the Roy retirement.
"enjoy paying out $13 million to Timonen & Briere for the next 4 years."
No one could set that team back as far as Clarke did. Great player. Horrible GM.
Your probably thinking I go out of my way to disagree with you but that's not the case at all. I enjoy debating with you and what you add here. Your knowledgeable and love the game like I do. Your just wrong a lot.
I know he's no spring chicken, but every time he's moved, he made an impact. Hey man, most every team is maxed out on the cap. And it looks like a bad move now but they had the cash at the time for Briere and needed a center with what he could provide them.
"They have managed the salary cap worse than any team in the league"
No way. That would be the Colorado Avalanche. PL fucked that team with his bonus' to Sakic and Blake when he knew the salary cap was coming. And that team has paid for it ever since. That and the Roy retirement.
"enjoy paying out $13 million to Timonen & Briere for the next 4 years."
No one could set that team back as far as Clarke did. Great player. Horrible GM.
I don't mind you arguing with me... keeps me sharp. After all, you are absolutely wrong about how many teams are maxed out on the cap. There are a lot of teams who have left themselves some wiggle room for the offseason. After all, who is going to sign the free agents?
Okay, so Colorado managed the cap badly. I guess Philly is 2nd worst. If it wasn't for Don Waddell, the Flyers would be completely screwed.
Ok. I didn't mean now, I meant when the're through completing their rosters for the season. At least the teams with a legitimate chance at going all the way. I doubt the Thrashers and Islanders will be going right to the max, but once we get under way most teams rosters will be in the 50's or at least high 40's.
I guess i'm the optimist and your the pessimist. This guy sums the situation pretty good.
http://www.philly.com/inquirer/sports/20090628_Flyers_more_well-rounded_with_Pronger.html
http://www.philly.com/inquirer/sports/20090628_Flyers_more_well-rounded_with_Pronger.html
