Overview of America - why we enjoy so much personal freedom and prosperity

[brucefan]

Overview of America -


Great for viewing in all venues, this video gives you a big-picture vision of why we enjoy so much personal freedom and prosperity in America. It explains in a simple fashion the different systems of government throughout the world and the different economic principles underlying each type of government-illuminating the great virtues of our unique nation

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[rolltide]

do you really feel like you enjoy a ton of personal freedom? dui checkpoints, tsa, tightening gun laws, wealth redistribution, and bans on anything the govt does not feel is appropriate would be a few items to think about

 

[Willie99]

do you really feel like you enjoy a ton of personal freedom? dui checkpoints, tsa, tightening gun laws, wealth redistribution, and bans on anything the govt does not feel is appropriate would be a few items to think about

I still feel pretty free, although I'm not necessarily happy with some of the recent movement, and I really miss Neteller

Do you not feel free?

 

[Georgiaboy]

I'm with willie99 but don't like the govt getting all these new powers.

 

[gtc08]

free? free?

they can get you for not wearing a seatbelt.
they constantly monitor you on the roadways.
they tell you when you can water your lawn.
they tell you when you have to be inside if your a youngen.

and thats just little shit. you are not "free" to do whatever you want.

damn, my girl is starting to rub off on me. i cant believe i hooked up with a conservative.

 

[quantumleap]

do you really feel like you enjoy a ton of personal freedom? dui checkpoints, tsa, tightening gun laws, wealth redistribution, and bans on anything the govt does not feel is appropriate would be a few items to think about

Try travelling to a foreign country and see how much freedom they have compared to us. While I despise the ever-tightening controls that are being put on us, especially after 9/11, we had so much freedom before that we are still heads above most other countries.

 

[gtc08]

quantum, when you going to post those pics

 

[barman]

Try travelling to a foreign country and see how much freedom they have compared to us. While I despise the ever-tightening controls that are being put on us, especially after 9/11, we had so much freedom before that we are still heads above most other countries.

This sums it up nicely.

I'm as "liberal" as most anyone here and am unaware of anywhere on the planet where I could live as well as I do now and with as many freedoms as I enjoy. Being a self-employed contractor certainly contributes to my overall attitude, but even if I were an employee (ugh) I'd still be rocking steady.

 

[mplastered]

This sums it up nicely.

I'm as "liberal" as most anyone here and am unaware of anywhere on the planet where I could live as well as I do now and with as many freedoms as I enjoy. Being a self-employed contractor certainly contributes to my overall attitude, but even if I were an employee (ugh) I'd still be rocking steady.

Ditto, minus the " liberal " part.

 

[Presto]

I am not as well traveled as many here, so I can not comment on how oppressive the slave masters are in other countries. We have freedom in a very limited definition of the word. We are the blessed slaves of the world.

Here is a list of just a few things not conducive with my understanding of freedom. This is due to federal, state, and local laws/ordinances.

1. cash= criminal
2. freedom of speech only if you say the right thing. Don Imus, Dog the Bounty Hunter, etc.
3. If I were an employer, I could not choose who to hire.
4.Hundreds of regulations prevent me from buying the kind of automobile I want from a manufacturer. I won't even start with the related topics of forced registration and insurance.
5. I can't drive down the street unless I submit to the nanny state seat belt laws.
6. I can only ingest govt. approved drugs. And even then I must not exceed certain levels and be caught in public.
7. I have to get a permit from city to cut a tree down in my front yard.
8. Freedom to travel as long as you are walking or taking the bus. Not very practical.
9. I can not earn income without paying the govt. and reporting everything to irs.
10. Property rights? Not in this state.


Yes, I know it could be worse, but that doesn't conceal the fact that we are not even close to enjoying many of the freedoms we once did.

 

[mplastered]

Well Hell, you left out committing murder is someone gets in your way. Now there's a pesky law that really pisses me off.

 

[barman]

PRESTO confuses private business rights with government oppression

to wit:

Presto: 1. cash= criminal

Bar: Except for the hundreds of millions of Americans who do business in cash on a daily basis without encountering criminal charges.

===
P: 2. freedom of speech only if you say the right thing. Don Imus, Dog the Bounty Hunter, etc.

Bar: Imus and Dog were not criminally charged for anything they said. The First Amendment does not protect you from saying something that your employer may believe to be damaging to their business and thus you (or Imus/Dog in this case) can be subject to losing employment based on their speech.

====
P: 3. If I were an employer, I could not choose who to hire.

Bar: Of course you can, just as tens of thousands of private employers do on a literal daily basis within the USA.

====
P: 4.Hundreds of regulations prevent me from buying the kind of automobile I want from a manufacturer. I won't even start with the related topics of forced registration and insurance.

Bar: The community as a whole has made social and civil agreements regarding these matters and you are free to either individually or collectively with other citizens have those regulations changed provided you can find enough people who agree with your preferred system.

====
P: 5. I can't drive down the street unless I submit to the nanny state seat belt laws.

Bar: Of course you can, as I and millions of other Americans do on a regular basis. (for me...only when driving in non-freeway settings). As has been discussed numerous times in discussion threads right here at the Rxforum, it's not particularly difficult to peaceably disobey seat belt laws.

====
P: 6. I can only ingest govt. approved drugs.

Bar: You are free to ingest any drug or substance you wish. And while you do face minimal risks of exposure if you choose to carry such substances out in public, it is extremely easy to avoid detection.

=====
P: 7. I have to get a permit from city to cut a tree down in my front yard.

Bar: Correct. See the above notation about community standards which were peaceably put into place and which can likewise peaceably be changed provided you have enough other citizens who agree with your preferred system. It's also very likely that those standards were in place at the time you purchased your home in which case you implicitly agreed with the policy when you made your purchase.

====
P: 8. Freedom to travel as long as you are walking or taking the bus. Not very practical.

Bar: You are not legally restrained from traveling by air or passenger vehicle.

====
P: 9. I can not earn income without paying the govt. and reporting everything to irs.

Bar: (huge smile) - Tens of millions of Americans earn income on a literal daily basis without reporting it to the IRS. You personally might not be aware of how to do that, but it's not very difficult to find out how and put it into practice if that's your desire.


HTH relieve your undue anxiety over perceived "lack of freedom" living in the USA in the year 2009

 

[Willie99]

get up, do what I want, work when I want, go where I want, party if I want, vacation where I want, choose the college I want, choose the Dr I want (so far)

I can even break some minor laws if I want without any real repercussion, like gamble on line, party, enjoy some private dance contact, speed and not wear a seat belt.

I think people who lack freedom would seriously be laughing in a very disrespectful fashion about our complaints.

 

[Presto]

Okay Barman, you play devils advocate for sake of discussion.

PRESTO confuses private business rights with government oppression

That would be true if we had clear and distinct boundries between the two. But we don't. Private business must do the bidding of govt. to stay in its good graces. And govt. must, to some degree, do the bidding of big business to get re-elected. Over the years it has developed into a rather incestious relationship. One thing is for sure, the voter and consumer have only lost ground.

Do you think we have the right amount of laws, or would society break down with less?
I know, it's a loaded question.
Generally speaking part of a successful police state involves not just arresting people, but advancing an environment of fear and hence, less fredom. By having so many useless, and overlapping, laws a citizen can be subject to harassment or arrest at anytime. That in itself, is anti American and an affront to freedom. I don't care if it comes from an executive order or a group of neighbors voting to put in speed bumps to discourage drivers from traveling their street. Either way, freedom takes a hit.
I realize one can argue against this philosophy. But that is my perspective.

Now where the rubber meets the road.
The first issue: Presto: 1. cash= criminal

Bar: Except for the hundreds of millions of Americans who do business in cash on a daily basis without encountering criminal charges.

Yes, you can use cash without a problem for most everyday purchases. Now try buying a: plane ticket, car rental, house, new car, or some fancy furniture. There is no laws against any of that. But you will be treated like a criminal if you even attempt to make those purchases with cash.
Ever try to withdraw $5k or more from your bank? They will tell you come back tomorrow. And even then they will ask you 20 questions. Again, not against the law, but you are made uncomfortable for daring to request your own money. At least I was way back when I was buying a used car. And I won't even go into the whole traveling outside the US with cash ordeal. This post is entirely too long already.

Finally, I will leave you with a few examples of why I say if you have cash, you are immediately assumed to be a criminal.

http://www.chicagotribune.com/news/nationworld/chi-texas-profiling_wittmar10,0,6051682.story

for those that don't have time to read my ramblings, this sums it up

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[Presto]

One other thing. To those that say, "oh but I am free because I get away will all sorts of stuff." It's not a matter of figuring out how to outwit the police state. It's about not living under a system where you must walk on eggs shells for fear of being stomped by the boot of tyranny.

 

[barman]

Presto, all I can reasonably conclude is that you hang around with some pretty fucked up businesses and/or people

====
P: Yes, you can use cash without a problem for most everyday purchases. Now try buying a: plane ticket

B: I pay cash for all my airline tickets over the past nine years at least. No one has ever said boo.

P: car rental

B: We always pay cash for our car rentals as well, though when out of town they use a CC number as security until we return it with a cash payment. Again, no one says boo.

P: house, new car

B: While I personally have never purchased either a house or new car with cash, I have business associates who buy both by writing a single check. No problem.

P:, or some fancy furniture.

B: Paid over $4000 in cash for three different furniture purchases at the local Broyhill dealer during the past 18 months. No problem.

P: There is no laws against any of that. But you will be treated like a criminal if you even attempt to make those purchases with cash.

B: As noted above, your fears are utterly imaginary.

====
P: Ever try to withdraw $5k or more from your bank?

B: The most we've ever withdrawn in a single pull was $3K just prior to our last trip to NYC. It took about three minutes and that was mainly because the window teller did us the courtesy of counting the cash in front of us twice. (Twenty 100s, ten 50s and twenty five 20s)

P: They will tell you come back tomorrow. And even then they will ask you 20 questions.

B: As noted, they not only delivered in just a few minutes, but they most certainly did not ask me ANY questions.

If you have a bank that is asking you questions about what you're using your own money for, I suggest you get a different bank. We use Bank of America.

===
P: Again, not against the law, but you are made uncomfortable for daring to request your own money. At least I was way back when I was buying a used car. And I won't even go into the whole traveling outside the US with cash ordeal. This post is entirely too long already.

B: This post so far is founded on utterly imaginary boogey stories (for 95% of us...I'm sure you're honestly sharing your own personal encounters), so thanks for not extending it any further.

 

[barman]

It's about not living under a system where you must walk on eggs shells for fear of being stomped by the boot of tyranny.

You definitely sound like you're in a real mental mess.

 

[barman]

BTW, the honest personal testimonials I shared two posts back I'm sure are actually rather small compared to many other people reading this Thread. I'm sure that more than a few folks reading this Thread have withdrawn sums of much larger than $3K from their personal bank with absolutely no problem being posed by their banker(s).

 

[mplastered]

BTW, the honest personal testimonials I shared two posts back I'm sure are actually rather small compared to many other people reading this Thread. I'm sure that more than a few folks reading this Thread have withdrawn sums of much larger than $3K from their personal bank with absolutely no problem being posed by their banker(s).

Hey, don't go acting human now. Just kidding as always. No, you're right, he needs a bit of help.

 

[Presto]

Barman

You are good at providing anecdotal evidence. I'll give you that. And you are even better at dismissing my observations as those of the "utterly imaginary boogey" variety. Not sure why you felt it necessary to question my mental status. But thanks for caring.

"I'm sure that more than a few folks reading this Thread have withdrawn sums of much larger than $3K from their personal bank with absolutely no problem being posed by their banker(s)."

Maybe they have. And I did have a problem. Does that diminish my argument? I don't believe so. It's more of an ancillary point.

I noticed you didn't have any comments on the news link or video.