Only 22 Athletic Programs turn a profit....

[CoachCB]

This is what the "players should be paid" crowd needs to read....and they also need to understand Title IX (i.e. if you pay football players you have to pay every single athlete at the school....including all woman's sports).


-----------


The list of self-sustaining athletic departments came out. The good news is the number grew to eight more schools than last year. The bad news is the number is 22. That's just shy of 10% of all public Division I institutions. Here's a look at the 22 schools who turned a profit in the athletic department without having to rely on student fees or other forms of support from the university (including government funds):

In 2009-10, athletics programs at 22 of the 228 Division I public schools generated enough money from media rights contracts, ticket sales, donations and other sources (not including allocated revenue from institutional or government support or student fees) to cover their expenses.


School
Total revenue
Generated revenue
Allocated revenue
Total expenses
Difference



Oregon
$122,394,483
$119,709,341
$2,685,142
$77,856,232
$41,853,109*



Alabama
$130,542,153
$125,562,153
$4,980,000
$98,961,214
$26,600,939



Penn State
$106,614,724
$106,614,724
$0
$88,041,921
$18,572,803



Michigan
$106,874,031
$106,640,861
$233,170
$89,133,850
$17,507,011



Oklahoma State
$106,362,128
$100,708,922
$5,653,206
$83,748,207
$16,960,715



Iowa
$88,735,093
$88,209,386
$525,707
$74,438,196
$13,771,190



Texas
$143,555,354
$143,555,354
$0
$130,436,534
$13,118,820



Oklahoma
$98,512,287
$98,512,287
$0
$87,678,199
$10,834,088



Georgia
$89,735,934
$86,533,389
$3,202,545
$77,250,831
$9,282,558



LSU
$111,030,795
$111,030,795
$0
$102,326,769
$8,704,026



Kansas State
$53,436,790
$50,201,682
$3,235,108
$42,337,682
$7,864,000



Florida
$117,104,407
$112,693,506
$4,410,901
$105,824,376
$6,869,130

Texas A&M
$82,774,133
$82,774,133
$0
$75,941,926
$6,832,207



Arkansas
$78,072,620
$76,377,647
$1,694,973
$71,801,905
$4,575,742



Purdue
$61,653,561
$61,653,561
$0
$58,365,143
$3,288,418



Michigan State
$83,545,892
$83,545,892
$3,348,785
$78,162,447
$2,034,660



Nebraska
$73,483,733
$73,483,733
$0
$71,738,068
$1,745,665



West Virginia
$62,030,104
$57,774,867
$4,255,237
$56,607,917
$1,166,950



Indiana
$69,287,811
$66,905,296
$2,382,515
$65,796,415
$1,108,881



Virginia Tech
$63,613,464
$56,706,913
$6,906,551
$55,738,633
$968,280



Ohio State
$123,174, 176
$123,174, 176
$0
$122,739,754
$434,422



Washington
$64,034,410
$61,851,895
$2,182,515
$61,640,598
$211,297


----

 

[MackDonald]

I find it hard to believe that the University of Wisconsin is NOT on the list with their solid football and basketball programs.
It must be that "blood sucking" title 1X crap that is "bleeding" it dry.

 

[HinesWard86]

There are definitely a few more schools that do turn a profit as private schools typically don't disclose this information and a program like Notre Dame certainly turns a profit. In all likelihood, Notre Dame's profit is bigger than any public school as well thanks to their lucrative TV deal with NBC and their merchandise.

The general premise is right though, the overwhelming majority of athletic programs don't make profits due to the plethora of non-revenue sports that they foot the bill for as well. In fact, the majority of FBS football programs lose money as well due to the huge costs associated with fielding a team on this level.

 

[mike52683]

Kind of a shocking story to read. Only 22 programs out of all the "major" or what seem like major programs out there.

Good point on Notre Dame, as the NBC deal more than likely would land them near the top of this list.

Thanks for sharing.

Mike

 

[CoachCB]

Mack, much like many Big Ten programs, Wisconsin fields a large number of programs that many non-northern schools field (I don't have the list, but many northern schools have ice hockey, wrestling, men's soccer, woman's lacrosse, field hockey, etc). These smaller, non-revenue programs take away from the bottom line....

If you read the beginning of the article, it says PUBLIC schools.....

---

 

[cloverleaf]

Good info Coach...........

Big 10: (8) Penn St., Mich, Iowa, MSU, Neb, Ind, OSU
SEC: (5) Ala, Ga, LSU, Fla, Ark
Big 12: (5) Ok St, Tx, Ok, Kan St, Tx A&M
Pac 12: (2) Oregon, Wash
ACC: (1) Va Tech
Big East: (1) WVU

Oklahoma State being ahead of Texas and Oklahoma is a bit of a surprise to me in the Big 12. Also, Ohio State being 7th in the Big 10 is surprising.

 

[WinOne]

Coach we've respectfully disagreed on this topic. When I first read this story online I laughed. Then I saw ESPN OTL and laughed even more because for once, I shared the same view with them. These athletic depts are cooking their books. Now I will say the caveat is...Of the BCS conferences. None of the BCS schools are losing money. It's not possible. Here's one of the ways they will skew the numbers. For instance Arizona St, will include the coaches salaries in their numbers knowing that the 70% of coaching salaries are taken care of by the booster club and athletic apparel companies.
I cannot say the same for teams from non-BCS conferences. With the support of Big10/SEC fans not just for football but for bball as wel. It's very hard not to turn a profit. Also knowing that these conferences typically put half of their teams in BBall tourney generates additional revenue.

Its a great read though. I dont think commissioners like Slive or Delaney would broach the topic if they did not think if was feasable. Again, they are the commissioners and would know the financial health of their perspective schools.

Always enjoy our discussions.

WinOne!!

 

[WinOne]

Good info Coach...........

Big 10: (8) Penn St., Mich, Iowa, MSU, Neb, Ind, OSU
SEC: (5) Ala, Ga, LSU, Fla, Ark
Big 12: (5) Ok St, Tx, Ok, Kan St, Tx A&M
Pac 12: (2) Oregon, Wash
ACC: (1) Va Tech
Big East: (1) WVU

Oklahoma State being ahead of Texas and Oklahoma is a bit of a surprise to me in the Big 12. Also, Ohio State being 7th in the Big 10 is surprising.

For the PAC10 private schools like USC and Stanford are not listed but I am sure they are turning profits in their athletic departments.

Winone!!

 

[GoSooners]

I can't speak for the other conferences, but the Big 12 is an especially top heavy conference when it comes to overall revenue. The top 2 schools lift this conference like none of the others.. When you take out Texas, who made $93 million last year, and OU, who made $58 million, the dropoff from the midpoint on down is very significant. In fact the bottom 6 schools only generated an average of $20 million in revenue. The Big 12 is tied for last with the ACC in overall revenue behind the Big-10, SEC, and Pac-10. So how big of spenders are these Big 12 schools? Texas expenses were only $25 million last year, while OU's was just $20 million. So yes, those schools are turning a nice profit like we would expect. But when you count in the bottom 6 schools, the average expenses for the Big 12 overall comes out to a little over $15 million. And although all of these schools turned a profit, it was almost a borderline profit for some of these schools. Kansas was the real surprise to me. Even with their outstanding basketball program, they only made a profit of $1.6 million last year. So there are some borderline Big schools out there. Even after they supposedly cook the books, which in my opinion, they can only take so far.

 

[WinOne]

I can't speak for the other conferences, but the Big 12 is an especially top heavy conference when it comes to overall revenue. The top 2 schools lift this conference like none of the others.. When you take out Texas, who made $93 million last year, and OU, who made $58 million, the dropoff from the midpoint on down is very significant. In fact the bottom 6 schools only generated an average of $20 million in revenue. The Big 12 is tied for last with the ACC in overall revenue behind the Big-10, SEC, and Pac-10. So how big of spenders are these Big 12 schools? Texas expenses were only $25 million last year, while OU's was just $20 million. So yes, those schools are turning a nice profit like we would expect. But when you count in the bottom 6 schools, the average expenses for the Big 12 overall comes out to a little over $15 million. And although all of these schools turned a profit, it was almost a borderline profit for some of these schools. Kansas was the real surprise to me. Even with their outstanding basketball program, they only made a profit of $1.6 million last year. So there are some borderline Big schools out there. Even after they supposedly cook the books, which in my opinion, they can only take so far.

GS,

If Kansas State can make a profit, surely the other bottom teams in the Big12 can turn a profit. You mean Tech and Baylor or Kansas don't turn a profit? I find it hard to believe.

WinOne!!

 

[GoSooners]

GS,

If Kansas State can make a profit, surely the other bottom teams in the Big12 can turn a profit. You mean Tech and Baylor or Kansas don't turn a profit? I find it hard to believe.

WinOne!!

WinOne...You have to look at it this way. How much is a school willing to spend to improve it's sports programs? Some schools will make a nice profit, but then the decision lies on whether they want to put in in the bank, or put in back into it's athletic departments. I think it just depends on the school. I was reading about the profits that the SEC made last year. They were number 1 among all of the conferences. And Georgia, who ranked second in the conference revenue last year, put only 26% of that revenue back into football. While Auburn and Alabama, who put 42% and 43% back into their football programs respectively, both went on to win the national championship. These numbers i quoted were from 2009-10. So I expect the Big 12 numbers to improve somewhat because of their new tv contract. But keep in mind there will always be a disparity under the current Big 12 contract because of the television revenue distribution, which if I have it right means half of the monies being evenly divided, and the other half being evenly dulled out based upon tv appearances. Which means OU and Texas will always be the masters of their domains, and the bottom half will be firmly behind the 8 ball. Especially those north schools. So any profits those athletic departments make will have to be put back into their major sports programs to keep up or stay competetive. I don't ever see the Iowa State or Baylor AD's saying "what are we going to do with all of these extra profits?"

 

[WinOne]

WinOne...You have to look at it this way. How much is a school willing to spend to improve it's sports programs? Some schools will make a nice profit, but then the decision lies on whether they want to put in in the bank, or put in back into it's athletic departments. I think it just depends on the school. I was reading about the profits that the SEC made last year. They were number 1 among all of the conferences. And Georgia, who ranked second in the conference revenue last year, put only 26% of that revenue back into football. While Auburn and Alabama, who put 42% and 43% back into their football programs respectively, both went on to win the national championship. These numbers i quoted were from 2009-10. So I expect the Big 12 numbers to improve somewhat because of their new tv contract. But keep in mind there will always be a disparity under the current Big 12 contract because of the television revenue distribution, which if I have it right means half of the monies being evenly divided, and the other half being evenly dulled out based upon tv appearances. Which means OU and Texas will always be the masters of their domains, and the bottom half will be firmly behind the 8 ball. Especially those north schools. So any profits those athletic departments make will have to be put back into their major sports programs to keep up or stay competetive. I don't ever see the Iowa State or Baylor AD's saying "what are we going to do with all of these extra profits?"

That divide is only going to increase over the next couple of years in the Big 12

WinOne!

 

[GoSooners]

That divide is only going to increase over the next couple of years in the Big 12

WinOne!

WinOne...I think the divide is only going to hurt the now 10 team Big 12. Especially since the third leading revenue school Nebraska is now gone. The Big 12 has only 2 schools who generated more than $50 million in revenue last year. When you compare that to the Big 10 and SEC who had between them 10 teams who made $50 million or more. The Big 12 had 4 teams who made less than $20 million. Compare that to all of the rest of the conferences who had 11 teams combined who made less than $20 million each. With 6 of those teams coming from the ACC. It's why conferences like the Pac-10 and SEC are so competetive within their conferences. You don't have anybody that stands head and shoulders above anybody else in the revenue department. Between bottom dweller Baylor's $14 million and Texas $93 million, it's too big of a divide. Baylor might be able to knock off the Big Dogs every once in a blue moon. But they'll never be consistently competetive with the OU's and Texas. In fact, I can't even remember the last time Baylor beat OU, if they ever have. As a fan I'm glad, but that's not good for the overall competivness of the conference. I also don't think Mizzou and Texas Tech can stay competeive with Texas and OU on a regular year in and year out basis. Those schools actually generated less revenue than Colorado ($26 million) last year. And we know what happened to Colorado. I just don't believe you can beat out a school for the conference title who is making almost 5 times more than you are with your measly $20 million. Texas A&M is the only school who is halfway close with $41 million. After that it is a pretty significant dropoff with OSU behind at $32 million. So even the Pokes are borderline to whether they can stay competetive year in and year out with OU and Texas.

 

[WinOne]

I think one thing some of the teams can do is expand their stadiums. Both OSU, Tech and Iowa St have done that recently. They have to be competitive so that they can generate revenue at the box office. OSU seems to be going in the right direction with the wallet of Boone-Pickens. Not sure that Tech and Baylor have such a benefactor and with politics in Texas, it will be hard for those two schools to get any assistance that is not split among all the universities. I don't think there would be much demand for a Tech or Baylor tv network.

I think that A&M is the sleeping giant. Not long ago, A&M was more prominent nationally than Texas was (mid 80's through RC Slocum era). Not taking anything away from Texas. I don't think the Ags are far away from getting back to that national prominence. The one thing I can say about Aggie fans is that they are fanatics. They will follow the school religously, kind of like Sooner fans. If they have another good year, and they are poised to do so, they might really, take off. Heck OU and A&M are #7 & 8 in this years directors cup standings. Texas is #15 and then it drops to Okie St at #34. I only mention that because we were playing golf Saturday and it came up.

It was also pointed out that the PAC10 top 10 team teams were ranked inside the top 30 and only Oregon St and Wazzu were outside of the top 30. Amazing how that Conference of Champions thing works (that's my PAC10 Public Service Announcement for the week)

 

[GoSooners]

WinOne..The good thing about the Pac-10, at least before this latest television and conference realignment deal, is no school from that conference generated more than $50 million in revenue. So it's always going to be a very competetive conference. I agree with you about Texas A&M. They've got the stadium size and fanbase to create a monster when the right coach comes in. OSU is a different story. They did expand their stadium. But they don't have a great fanbase. And in fact has had many problems over the last couple of years selling out the stadium. Even with the improving football team. The big problem is Stillwater is basically in the middle of nowhere. And with the campus being a 20 minute drive off of I-35, it's a bit of a hassle for most people to get there.

 

[ChrisParadise]

wierd

different #'s at this link :

http://businessofcollegesports.com/...ketball-programs-produce-the-largest-profits/

just shows how huge the big two sports are for these schools, if both sets up #'s are right this means some athletic departments have a net loss of 40mill if you take away one sport

id imagine both use fancy accounting to skew numbers anyway

----Which Football and Basketball Programs Produce the Largest Profits?

I’ve told you before that Louisville basketball is the 21st most profitable program in college athletics. I’ve shown you the football profits for every school in my Conference Finance Series. Now it’s time to take a look at the 50 most profitable programs in college athletics for the 2009-2010 school year:

Rank School Revenue Expenses Profit
1 University of Texas (Football) $93,942,815 $25,112,331 $68,830,484
2 Univ. of Georgia (Football) $70,838,539 $18,308,654 $52,529,885
3 Penn State Univ. (Football) $70,208,584 $19,780,939 $50,427,645
4 Univ. of Michigan (Football) $63,189,417 $18,328,233 $44,861,184
5 Univ. of Florida (Football) $68,715,750 $24,457,557 $44,258,193
6 Louisiana State Univ. (Football) $68,819,806 $25,566,520 $43,253,286
7 Univ. of Alabama (Football) $71,884,525 $31,118,134 $40,766,391
8 Univ. of Tennessee (Football) $56,593,946 $17,357,345 $39,236,601
9 Auburn Univ. (Football) $66,162,720 $27,911,713 $38,251,007
10 University of Oklahoma (Football) $58,295,888 $20,150,769 $38,145,119
11 Univ. of South Carolina (Football) $58,266,159 $22,794,211 $35,471,948
12 Notre Dame (Football) $64,163,063 $29,490,788 $34,672,275
13 University of Nebraska (Football) $49,928,228 $17,843,849 $32,084,379
14 Ohio State Univ. (Football) $63,750,000 $31,763,036 $31,986,964
15 Univ. of Iowa (Football) $45,854,764 $18,468,732 $27,386,032
16 Michigan State Univ. (Football) $44,462,659 $17,468,458 $26,994,201
17 Univ. of Arkansas (Football) $48,524,244 $22,005,104 $26,519,140
18 Texas A&M (Football) $41,915,428 $16,599,798 $25,315,630
19 Univ. of Kentucky (Football) $31,890,572 $13,905,724 $17,984,848
20 Oklahoma State (Football) $32,787,498 $15,479,410 $17,308,088
21 University of Louisville (Basketball) $25,890,003 $9,089,769 $16,800,234
22 Univ. of Wisconsin (Football) $38,662,971 $22,041,491 $16,621,480
23 Univ. of Mississippi (Football) $28,409,774 $11,920,510 $16,489,264
24 West Virginia University (Football) $29,467,612 $14,330,236 $15,137,376
25 Univ. of Minnesota (Football) $32,322,688 $17,433,699 $14,888,989
26 Virginia Tech (Football) $31,155,870 $16,302,767 $14,853,103
27 Univ of Washington (Football) $33,919,639 $19,207,560 $14,712,079
28 Clemson Univ. (Football) $30,994,503 $16,305,528 $14,688,975
29 Duke (Basketball) $26,667,056 $12,286,475 $14,380,581
30 Univ. of Illinois (Football) $25,301,783 $11,092,122 $14,209,661
31 North Carolina (Basketball) $20,551,168 $6,647,459 $13,903,709
32 University of Colorado (Football) $26,233,929 $12,558,503 $13,675,426
33 Univ of Arizona (Basketball) $19,285,038 $5,806,535 $13,478,503
34 Ohio St. (Basketball) $16,190,723 $4,554,908 $11,635,815
35 University of Missouri (Football) $25,378,066 $13,759,649 $11,618,417
36 North Carolina State (Football) $22,018,738 $10,408,938 $11,609,800
37 Arizona State (Football) $29,587,236 $17,977,987 $11,609,249
38 Texas Tech (Football) $26,201,009 $14,688,382 $11,512,627
39 Univ of Oregon (Football) $29,505,906 $18,071,012 $11,434,894
40 Univ of Arizona (Football) $24,398,253 $13,685,931 $10,712,322
41 Syracuse University (Basketball) $18,309,470 $8,086,376 $10,223,094
42 Wisconsin (Basketball) $17,666,311 $7,539,418 $10,126,893
43 Illinois (Basketball) $14,413,222 $4,980,589 $9,432,633
44 Georgia Tech (Football) $24,870,064 $15,519,206 $9,350,858
45 Indiana Univ. (Football) $21,783,185 $12,822,779 $8,960,406
46 Indiana (Basketball) $16,570,158 $7,653,945 $8,916,213
47 Univ. of Arkansas (Basketball) $15,515,830 $6,839,213 $8,676,617
48 Univ of Southern California (Football) $29,080,117 $20,820,468 $8,259,649
49 Minnesota (Basketball) $13,733,316 $5,692,149 $8,041,167
50 Michigan St. (Basketball) $16,138,167 $8,250,450 $7,887,717--------------------------------------------------

 

[sdf]

The title should be "only 22 athletic programs say they turn a profit....."

you'd see plenty of fired ADs if they werent turning a profit every year.

 

[GoSooners]

The difference in figures for some of these schools probably has more to do with who they report to for their numbers. Figures reported to the Dept. Of Education could be much different than the numbers they have to report Federally. I can tell you for a fact there are schools out there who aren't making a profit based on what they made and what they put back into their programs. I know Baylor didn't make a profit last year. Iowa State came out just $215,000 ahead. Which is cutting it pretty close. Like I stated before, some schools like Texas and OU have a big advantage over the rest because they don't have to put as big of a percentage of their profits back into the program. For instance Texas is spending just 27% of what it made on football. And OU is putting back just 35%. But a school like Baylor who made only $14 million last year, is having to put 87% back into the program. Which means less money to fund other sports. That's probably a big part of the reason why 10th place in profit school Colorado dropped it's baseball program. And then dropped out of the Big 12..Many of these bottom half conference schools are barely operating with their heads above water. Here's a site that gives the Big 12 revenue breakdown. Towards the bottom of the page is the actual profits that each Big 12 school made.

http://businessofcollegesports.com/2011/03/20/whos-making-money-in-big-12-football/

 

[WinOne]

The title should be "only 22 athletic programs say they turn a profit....."

you'd see plenty of fired ADs if they werent turning a profit every year.

I'd agree with that. If you are not making a profit and you are in a BCS conference, you should quit and play club sports.

 

[sdf]

That's probably a big part of the reason why 10th place in profit school Colorado dropped it's baseball program. And then dropped out of the Big 12.[/URL]

CU hasnt had baseball for 30 years (same for gymnastics, swimming and wrestling). Should we blame the Big 8 for that?

I find it hard to see how schools cant make a profit unless they suck at spending money. Smaller schools may have to do more work to increase their bottom line but with TV, Radio and Advertising, not to mention ticket and merchandise sales, there should be plenty of money to go around. And when you're the only game in town (which is the case for many colleges) and not fighting for attention from other interests, it should be even easier.

If these college sports programs came out and showed they made millions and millions (which many do), people would raise holy hell trying to get their share. How can state colleges continue to raise tuition yet the sports programs rake in 10 million a year profit?