Obama will bypass Congress to detain suspects indefinitely

Search

New member
Joined
Feb 1, 2005
Messages
7,373
Tokens
Impeach this authoritarian motherfucker!

President Barack Obama has quietly decided to bypass Congress and allow the indefinite detention of terrorist suspects without charges.
The move, which was controversial when the idea was first floated in The Washington Post in May, has sparked serious concern among civil liberties advocates. Such a decision allows the president to unilaterally hold "combatants" without habeas corpus -- a legal term literally meaning "you shall have the body" -- which forces prosecutors to charge a suspect with a crime to justify the suspect's detention.
Obama's decision was buried on page A 23 of The New York Times' New York edition on Thursday. It didn't appear on that page in the national edition. (Meanwhile, the front page was graced with the story, "Richest Russian's Newest Toy: An N.B.A. Team.")
Rather than seek approval from Congress to hold some 50 Guantanamo detainees indefinitely, the administration has decided that it has the authority to hold the prisoners under broad-ranging legislation passed in the wake of Sept. 11, 2001. Former President George W. Bush frequently invoked this legislation as the justification for controversial legal actions -- including the NSA's warrantless wiretapping program.
"The administration will continue to hold the detainees without bringing them to trial based on the power it says it has under the Congressional resolution passed after the attacks of Sept. 11, 2001, authorizing the president to use force against forces of Al Qaeda and the Taliban," the Times' Peter Baker writes. "In concluding that it does not need specific permission from Congress to hold detainees without charges, the Obama administration is adopting one of the arguments advanced by the Bush administration in years of debates about detention policies."
Constitutional scholar and Salon.com columnist Glenn Greenwald discussed the policy in a column in May. He warned that the ability for a president to "preventively" detain suspects could mushroom into broader, potentially abusive activity.
"It does not merely allow the U.S. Government to imprison people alleged to have committed Terrorist acts yet who are unable to be convicted in a civilian court proceeding," Greenwald wrote. "That class is merely a subset, perhaps a small subset, of who the Government can detain. Far more significant, 'preventive detention' allows indefinite imprisonment not based on proven crimes or past violations of law, but of those deemed generally 'dangerous' by the Government for various reasons (such as, as Obama put it yesterday, they 'expressed their allegiance to Osama bin Laden' or 'otherwise made it clear that they want to kill Americans'). That's what 'preventive' means: imprisoning people because the Government claims they are likely to engage in violent acts in the future because they are alleged to be 'combatants.'"
"Once known, the details of the proposal could -- and likely will -- make this even more extreme by extending the 'preventive detention' power beyond a handful of Guantanamo detainees to anyone, anywhere in the world, alleged to be a 'combatant,'" Greenwald continues. "After all, once you accept the rationale on which this proposal is based -- namely, that the U.S. Government must, in order to keep us safe, preventively detain "dangerous" people even when they can't prove they violated any laws -- there's no coherent reason whatsoever to limit that power to people already at Guantanamo, as opposed to indefinitely imprisoning with no trials all allegedly 'dangerous' combatants, whether located in Pakistan, Thailand, Indonesia, Western countries and even the U.S."
The Obama Administration appears to have embraced "preventive detention" in part because of problems with how Guantanamo prisoners' cases -- and incarceration -- were handled under President Bush. Military prosecutors have said that numerous cases could not be brought successfully in civilian courts because evidence was obtained in ways that wouldn't be admissible on US soil. The Bush Administration originally sought to try numerous detainees in military tribunals, but the Supreme Court ruled that at least some have the rights to challenge their detention in US courts.
Baker notes that Obama's decision to hold suspects without charges doesn't propose as broad an executive authority claimed by President Bush.
"Obama’s advisers are not embracing the more disputed Bush contention that the president has inherent power under the Constitution to detain terrorism suspects indefinitely regardless of Congress," Baker writes.
In a statement to Baker, the Justice Department said, “The administration would rely on authority already provided by Congress [and] is not currently seeking additional authorization.”
“The position conveyed by the Justice Department in the meeting last week broke no new ground and was entirely consistent with information previously provided by the Justice Department to the Senate Armed Services Committee,” the statement added.
Roughly 50 detainees of the more than 200 still held at the US prison at Guantanamo Bay, Cuba are thought to be affected by the decision
 

Honey Badger Don't Give A Shit
Joined
Sep 21, 2004
Messages
46,540
Tokens
It's certainly hugely disappointing to see President Obama caving into this incredibly misguided policy as first used by President Bush during his last six years in office.
 

I'll be in the Bar..With my head on the Bar
Joined
Oct 3, 2004
Messages
9,980
Tokens
And as predicted by me within days of the signing of the Patriot Act this has nothing what soever to do with detaining Taliban....Hell the FUCK UP is letting them go right and left so they can bet back to defeating us in AFg....
No as i told you way back then a DEMOCRATS definition of terrorists is FAR FAR different than Bush's was at the time..
These democrat defined terrorists will be from right here in the USA.
By the way some nice photos and videos out there of U.S. troops on the ground in Pittsburg, P.A. right now.....If anybody cares to look at them...
 

Conservatives, Patriots & Huskies return to glory
Handicapper
Joined
Sep 9, 2005
Messages
87,309
Tokens
I don't mind people that exist to terrorize and kill Americans being held captive as "intended" by the Patriot Act. If power is abused, there should be consequences.

I'm going to assume the President believes he's acting in the best interests of our security and he didn't make this decision callously.

Thanks again to W for stopping terrorists attacks against our country and against our interests since the enactment of the Patriot Act. Terrorist attacks worldwide have slowed considerably.

As for the NYT, no surprise about their double standard and hypocrisy. If W was in office, it would be their headline story. They know how to mold their base.
 

New member
Joined
Dec 15, 2006
Messages
89
Tokens
It's certainly hugely disappointing to see President Obama caving into this incredibly misguided policy as first used by President Bush during his last six years in office.

I'm just glad to see them getting on with this important business.

The reason I vote to elect three Congressional representatives is so they can "represent" for me in Congress and I can go about my life.

If I wanted to review all the details of all the legislation that is proposed in the U.S. Congress, I wouldn't have time for the rest of my life. That's why I have the three Congressional reps. They do that job on my behalf.

Solid

So should we just shut up and let them represent or should we ask questions, hold accountable and oppose when elected officials do not represent our values.
 

Honey Badger Don't Give A Shit
Joined
Sep 21, 2004
Messages
46,540
Tokens
So should we just shut up and let them represent or should we ask questions, hold accountable and oppose when elected officials do not represent our values.

Asked and Answered already in the thread from which you yanked the above quoted post by me from the other day.

If you lack confidence in your three elected federal Congress reps, then by all means rally your friends, family and neighbors to see about replacing them.

However if you have confidence they are at the moment best suited for the job, then - imho - there's a limit to the amount of time one should invest in "asking questions" given that there are dozens of legislative bills introduced every single month. If you're not careful, you'll find yourself waging dozens of fruitless battles, all with the hope you might sway one or more of your federal reps to see things your way.

Bottom line - each of us must decide how much our time is worth and then calculate how much of that time we wish to use in trying to individually influence the behemoth that is the U.S. Congress. I wish you well in your personal decisions in this vein.
 

Conservatives, Patriots & Huskies return to glory
Handicapper
Joined
Sep 9, 2005
Messages
87,309
Tokens
I for one can't pretend to have the desire to research each and every bill before Congress. However, bills like National Health Care Reform, a trillion dollar stimulus plan and making drastic changes to our nation's energy system are the type of bill I want to learn about, I want the details known before any vote, and I want to take as much time as it takes to debate the issues.

As for confidence in elected officials, suffice to say I'm the polar opposite of my southern hick friend, I have very little confidence in any of them, especially with respect to domestic and budgetary issues.

national defense, not so bad as a whole

term limits now
 

New member
Joined
Feb 1, 2005
Messages
7,373
Tokens
So you don't mind U.S. Citizens being held without due process so long as the government accuses them of "existing to terrorize and kill Americans"?

I don't mind people that exist to terrorize and kill Americans being held captive as "intended" by the Patriot Act. If power is abused, there should be consequences.

I'm going to assume the President believes he's acting in the best interests of our security and he didn't make this decision callously.

Thanks again to W for stopping terrorists attacks against our country and against our interests since the enactment of the Patriot Act. Terrorist attacks worldwide have slowed considerably.

As for the NYT, no surprise about their double standard and hypocrisy. If W was in office, it would be their headline story. They know how to mold their base.
 

I'll be in the Bar..With my head on the Bar
Joined
Oct 3, 2004
Messages
9,980
Tokens
Especially when "terrorize" can mean not keeping your grass cut to your neighbors standards or not giving your kids govt issued insurance, vaccines or electronic implants....Soon cutting a limb off a tree or not properly disposing of rainwater will be considered terrorist acts.....ENJOY!!
 

New member
Joined
Feb 1, 2005
Messages
7,373
Tokens
Not especially, not at all. The Constitution specifically prohibits what they are doing, no matter what they accuse you of doing.


No person shall be held to answer for any capital, or otherwise infamous crime, unless on a presentment or indictment of a Grand Jury, except in cases arising in the land or naval forces, or in the Militia, when in actual service in time of War or public danger; nor shall any person be subject for the same offence to be twice put in jeopardy of life or limb; nor shall be compelled in any criminal case to be a witness against himself, nor be deprived of life, liberty, or property, without due process of law; nor shall private property be taken for public use, without just compensation.

In all criminal prosecutions, the accused shall enjoy the right to a speedy and public trial, by an impartial jury of the State and district where in the crime shall have been committed, which district shall have been previously ascertained by law, and to be informed of the nature and cause of the accusation; to be confronted with the witnesses against him; to have compulsory process for obtaining witnesses in his favor, and to have the Assistance of Counsel for his defense.

Especially when "terrorize" can mean not keeping your grass cut to your neighbors standards or not giving your kids govt issued insurance, vaccines or electronic implants....Soon cutting a limb off a tree or not properly disposing of rainwater will be considered terrorist acts.....ENJOY!!
 

Forum statistics

Threads
1,121,731
Messages
13,599,846
Members
101,230
Latest member
nhacai11betlatvn
The RX is the sports betting industry's leading information portal for bonuses, picks, and sportsbook reviews. Find the best deals offered by a sportsbook in your state and browse our free picks section.FacebookTwitterInstagramContact Usforum@therx.com